I'm currently working on a crew for an Italeri PT 596 kit. I've noticed that a properly scaled 1/35 man at the wheel stands far too low compared to helmsmen in period pics. That is to say, the plastic helmsman's head doesn't even fully protrude above the sides and front of the bridge whereas in period pics even part of the helmsman's torso seems to protrude. I wonder if someone can tell me why it is that a 1/35 helmsman in the Italeri boat has to stand on his toes to peer over the spray shield . Is this due to some dimensional error or was the helmsman in real life standing on a platform substantially higher than the one provided in the Italeri kit. Thanks in advance.

Arjan

Hi Arjan,

I can find nothing clearly marked on the plans I have . .

Checking photos there are clearly indications of people in the cockpit being at different heights obviously standing on something. The two heights being from the chin being level with cockpit side to mid chest level with side.

Certainly on the Vospers there are clear plans showing both boxes and steps in the cockpit area.

One thing you could check is the height of the side of the model cockpit, how does this compare with say a man 170cms high?

Hope this helps

Cheers Kev

Thanks Kevin. I measured the starboard side of the cockpit and its height is about 1,70 meters. Assuming that the height of a man's head (measured from the chin) is about 25 centimeters, the helmsman's platform would at least have to be 7mm (in 1/35 scale) to have his head protrude fully above the cockpit. The Italeri platform is only about 2,5 mm high .... The following pics seem to indicate that the platform should be much higher or perhaps there is a dimensional error in the Italeri cockpit.





Regards,

Arjan

Arjan,
Go with what makes the helmsman look right.
Local modification . . . no one can argue

Cheers Kev

Maybe you need a 7' tall helmsman!

Well, if you want to do the math, based on the ELCO drawings, the height of the instrument panel from the deck to the top of the shelf is 51.5". The windshield is about 8" above the shelf. The helmsman's platform varied a bit among the various series of boats, but was about 4.5" high. So, at 1/35 scale, we're looking at approximately 1.47", .23", and .13" respectively.

Al Ross

Thanks a lot for the measurements Al. If I understand you correctly this would mean that the sides and windshield of the Italeri cockpit are way too high. I will raise the platform and perform some surgery on the legs of the helmsman and captain .

Regards,

Arjan

Here's an actual ELCO drawing that may help.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/alross2/486b_zps81c95a09.jpg

Al

Much obliged Al, perhaps you are willing to shed some light on another matter So far the construction/design of the two box-shaped charthouse blinds/shutters has eluded me. Would you happen to have any close-ups or drawings of these? At first I thought they were roller blinds of some kind but now I'm not so sure. These are the only pics I found and they are not really helpful in understanding how these things worked:





Regards,

Arjan

We had a discussion about the helm area in the PT Boats Forum site. We came up with some interesting photos. Remember those old rubber segmented floor mats made of rubber and wire? Check this out..



Not sure if this is the same boat, but for sure the same floor mat



No platform, just a rubber mat thrown down on the deck. I believe the wood grate as modeled in the kit was done on the 77' Elco's but maybe not the 80's? Perhaps Al or somebody else has some information to share with us about that.

Here's another photo of a damaged 80' PT. No indication of a platform here.


A look from the inside



Could be that some crews removed or added platforms. There are some photos I've seen that indicate there might be one there but so far I haven't seen anything definitive.

Hope that helps
Dave

Much obliged David, some really interesting pics. A makeshift seat would be a nice addition and would solve some problems as well.

Regards,

Arjan

I've noticed that there is some variation in the height of the sides of the bridge area in these boats. In the following photos, both sides are a constant height.





But in this photo, the side behind the sailor is cut down.



The other side is cut down also.



It would appear that there was quite a difference in height of the bridge sides between the two series of boats that the '109' and the '596' belonged to. There are so many variations between individual boats, it seems the more I learn, the more questions I have. Al

That last photo definitely shows him on a platform. My guestimate would be 4-5" high.

Hi Al,
Actually what you're looking at on the boat with the seaman sitting on the fold down seat is the armor plating removed from the port side of the cockpit. This is actually one of the benefits of the Italeri PT-109 kit. They didn't get the armor right but all the framework for the port side of the cockpit is there making the conversation to a both with armor removed.

I'm not exactly sure of the evolution in cockpit configuration with the 80' boats but they did transition away from the plexiglas wind screens to a more solid wood structure solid enough that that you sometimes see crew sitting on.

As far as the comment on the last photo having a raised platform, it's really an illusion. The officer is sitting on that fold down seat and his foot is dangling in the air. The rubber mat is flat on the planked deck.

Speaking of the fold down seat. I'm not sure of its evolution either but clearly PT-109 had one as that is what JFK is sitting on in this often reproduced photos of him in the cockpit. It's a great add on feature not provided for by the kit manufacturers.

Dave

I looked again, my bad!