Hi all
I have build a lot of models, but is still a newbie when it comes to ships. I recently picked up the vintage airfix model of the Ark Royal. I remember building this as a kid and want a trip down memory lane building it again.
However, I am a bit confused on what colors to use? It seems a rust red on the lower hull and sea grey sides? The landing deck is dark grey or green? Not sure if there were several color schemes for the Ark Royal or sources differ?
Can anybody recommend any paints - preferably AK interactive or Vallejo. I am thinking of getting this set:
Royal Navy Set 1
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General Ship Modeling: Painting & Color Schemes
Topics on painting and paint schemes are grouped here
Topics on painting and paint schemes are grouped here
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
Ark Royal 1941 colors
SGTJKJ
#041
Joined: July 20, 2006
KitMaker: 10,069 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 03:27 AM UTC
McRunty
#491
Joined: April 06, 2016
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Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 04:18 AM UTC
I have the USN WW2 set from AK and I was not impressed at all. May have just been my set but the paints are awful. From the set I got only 1 bottle that worked properly.
Your mileage may vary but if you can get Vallejo that's what I would recommend. I have had no issues with Vallejo paints.
Your mileage may vary but if you can get Vallejo that's what I would recommend. I have had no issues with Vallejo paints.
phantom_phanatic309
#372
Joined: March 10, 2010
KitMaker: 2,568 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 05:58 AM UTC
I'd second a recommendation for Vallejo Modelair, they spray beautifully.
I recently worked out some equivalents of the admiralty 507 greys from their range. Might not be exact colour matches but they looked good to my eyes and are a good base for weathering, which will change tones anyway. Let me check my notes and the bottles and I'll get back to you.
Looky at photos, I think Ark Royal was painted in 507C light grey with a band of 507B medium grey above the waterline. Will check my references on that, but admittedly I don't have much for the Ark Royal. Decks were probably 507A dark grey or possibly dark green? I know Victorious's deck had a cammouflage pattern of dark grey and green at this time, so I wouldn't rule that out on the Ark Royal too. Maybe someone has some good references they can help with.
For the lower hull I would just use any red oxide primer colour.
Hope it helps
I recently worked out some equivalents of the admiralty 507 greys from their range. Might not be exact colour matches but they looked good to my eyes and are a good base for weathering, which will change tones anyway. Let me check my notes and the bottles and I'll get back to you.
Looky at photos, I think Ark Royal was painted in 507C light grey with a band of 507B medium grey above the waterline. Will check my references on that, but admittedly I don't have much for the Ark Royal. Decks were probably 507A dark grey or possibly dark green? I know Victorious's deck had a cammouflage pattern of dark grey and green at this time, so I wouldn't rule that out on the Ark Royal too. Maybe someone has some good references they can help with.
For the lower hull I would just use any red oxide primer colour.
Hope it helps
McRunty
#491
Joined: April 06, 2016
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Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 06:31 AM UTC
Here is the chart I used for my Vallejo colours. Its a very helpful chart and has most of the major Navy powers colours.
http://www.ipmsswamp.com/files/VallejoWWIINavalColorEquivalents.pdf
http://www.ipmsswamp.com/files/VallejoWWIINavalColorEquivalents.pdf
SGTJKJ
#041
Joined: July 20, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 07:26 AM UTC
Thanks a lot for your insights.
Both on the colors and the vallejo conversion chart.
I have had really good results with both AK and Vallejo paints. AK needs more careful thinning and a lot of shaking to get the pigments blended properly. I might take the chance on the AK set.
Maybe I can find a picture of the deck of Ark Royal to clarify the camouflage pattern if there is one.
Thanks for the quick answers
Both on the colors and the vallejo conversion chart.
I have had really good results with both AK and Vallejo paints. AK needs more careful thinning and a lot of shaking to get the pigments blended properly. I might take the chance on the AK set.
Maybe I can find a picture of the deck of Ark Royal to clarify the camouflage pattern if there is one.
Thanks for the quick answers
SGTJKJ
#041
Joined: July 20, 2006
KitMaker: 10,069 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 08:08 AM UTC
Below some of the pictures I found online. It seems the side colors are settled based on the previous posts?
See my notes below - did I get your comments right?
That leaves the deck. It seems to be a single color - but - with some different colors on the front part of the deck and possibly the aircraft elevators? It seems to be too light to be dark grey or is that just because of direct sunlight?
See my notes below - did I get your comments right?
That leaves the deck. It seems to be a single color - but - with some different colors on the front part of the deck and possibly the aircraft elevators? It seems to be too light to be dark grey or is that just because of direct sunlight?
phantom_phanatic309
#372
Joined: March 10, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 08:27 AM UTC
Whatever grey the lower hull is painted is the same as the destroyer HMS Legion G74. Will check that for you, but I think 507A is most likely. Seems very faded and weather worn on both ships.
Some good pdf references about Royal Navy paints can be found here:
https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/pages/british-royal-navy-colour-schemes
I'm working on a couple of Aoshimas newly tooled Royal Navy cruisers at the minute. Really nice kits.
I'm using these paints from Vallejo:
507A = 71110 Dark Grey
507B = Medium Sea Grey (might need a touch of blue as I don't think it's a great match from the bottle, but would work as a faded shade)
507C = 71276 USAF Light Grey
Some good pdf references about Royal Navy paints can be found here:
https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/pages/british-royal-navy-colour-schemes
I'm working on a couple of Aoshimas newly tooled Royal Navy cruisers at the minute. Really nice kits.
I'm using these paints from Vallejo:
507A = 71110 Dark Grey
507B = Medium Sea Grey (might need a touch of blue as I don't think it's a great match from the bottle, but would work as a faded shade)
507C = 71276 USAF Light Grey
phantom_phanatic309
#372
Joined: March 10, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 08:43 AM UTC
Going by this photo of HMS Legion in Valetta harbour, I would say with certainty she's in 507A and C colours.
JPTRR
Managing Editor#051
Joined: December 21, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 08:54 AM UTC
I've never use AK, and not a lot of Vallejo.
I have been very happy with LifeColor. Here's my review of their IJN set 1
Here's all of the naval reviews for LC: https://archive.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showmaker&makerid=411&rid=4
I have been very happy with LifeColor. Here's my review of their IJN set 1
Here's all of the naval reviews for LC: https://archive.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showmaker&makerid=411&rid=4
SGTJKJ
#041
Joined: July 20, 2006
KitMaker: 10,069 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 08:56 AM UTC
Thanks for the feedback and confirmations.
What about the deck? It looks very light, but in the last picture with a solid overcast and no sun, it seems to be in between 507A and C. So maybe it is 507B?
The markings on the deck seems to be lighter than black, so maybe 507A?
What about the deck? It looks very light, but in the last picture with a solid overcast and no sun, it seems to be in between 507A and C. So maybe it is 507B?
The markings on the deck seems to be lighter than black, so maybe 507A?
JPTRR
Managing Editor#051
Joined: December 21, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 08:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Below some of the pictures I found online. It seems the side colors are settled based on the previous posts?
See my notes below - did I get your comments right?
I have an Ark Royal that I am planning to build and assembled a lot of notes about her paint. (Typically, can't find them.) IIRC, when she was sunk, her colors were pretty boring, as you show on the photos: two dark grays above the boot line.
Here's a lot of info: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235065617-ark-royal-colours/
phantom_phanatic309
#372
Joined: March 10, 2010
KitMaker: 2,568 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 09:29 AM UTC
I wonder if the grey above the boot could be 507B? In some photo's it seems a bit lighter than A which was very dark.
Would be interested to find out the deck colours. I have an older boxing of the Revell 1/720 which has next to useless painting instructions.
Fred, I have to agree with you. Ark Royal had a very boring scheme, especially when compared with Victorious and Illustrious.
Would be interested to find out the deck colours. I have an older boxing of the Revell 1/720 which has next to useless painting instructions.
Fred, I have to agree with you. Ark Royal had a very boring scheme, especially when compared with Victorious and Illustrious.
TimReynaga
Associate EditorJoined: May 03, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 10:14 AM UTC
For what its worth, I did an Ark Royal a while back with a flight deck painted the same color as the hull: 507c, with slightly darker lifts and catapult areas.
The scheme is a bit boring, but deck markings and aircraft liven things up a bit.
The scheme is a bit boring, but deck markings and aircraft liven things up a bit.
JPTRR
Managing Editor#051
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 10:54 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I wonder if the grey above the boot could be 507B? In some photo's it seems a bit lighter than A which was very dark.
I recall that the A.R. research I refer to shows enlarged photos of her and the weathering of the hull. Researchers surmise that the dark 507B looks light because of rust and/or salt. That's all I recall.
phantom_phanatic309
#372
Joined: March 10, 2010
KitMaker: 2,568 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 11:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI wonder if the grey above the boot could be 507B? In some photo's it seems a bit lighter than A which was very dark.
I recall that the A.R. research I refer to shows enlarged photos of her and the weathering of the hull. Researchers surmise that the dark 507B looks light because of rust and/or salt. That's all I recall.
It's very worn. In the above photo of the stern, you can see a very distinct light and dark demarcation line and what looks like the 507c peeling. The Ark might have had a short wartime career, but the hard work was definitely showing by the time it was sunk.
JPTRR
Managing Editor#051
Joined: December 21, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 01:27 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The scheme is a bit boring, but deck markings and aircraft liven things up a bit.
Tim,
PPPuuuullllleeeeeezzz tell me you did NOT hand-paint those deck markings!
Yup, those Fulmars so add a splash of color to the ship.
TimReynaga
Associate EditorJoined: May 03, 2006
KitMaker: 2,500 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 02:12 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThe scheme is a bit boring, but deck markings and aircraft liven things up a bit.
Tim,
PPPuuuullllleeeeeezzz tell me you did NOT hand-paint those deck markings!
Yup, those Fulmars so add a splash of color to the ship.
LOL! The catapult and lifts were painted, but the white line and circle were a decal!
SGTJKJ
#041
Joined: July 20, 2006
KitMaker: 10,069 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - 09:47 AM UTC
Thanks for all the insights, guys!
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - 11:53 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Would be interested to find out the deck colours.
The flight deck was painted Bronze-Gray. Apart from oil and thinners, the main pigments were ochre and black - the same pigments that make olive drab! A chip of Bronze-Gray could be described as a slightly faded shade of olive-drab.
TimReynaga
Associate EditorJoined: May 03, 2006
KitMaker: 2,500 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - 12:41 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Would be interested to find out the deck colours.
The flight deck was painted Bronze-Gray. Apart from oil and thinners, the main pigments were ochre and black - the same pigments that make olive drab! A chip of Bronze-Gray could be described as a slightly faded shade of olive-drab.
I think you may be right; in many color pics of British WW2 carriers the flight decks seem to be gray -
...but a few of the clearer ones look like a distinctly greenish AP631 Bronze-Gray:
This second pic isn't Ark Royal, but it may be a good guide to the Ark's correct deck color.
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, July 23, 2020 - 03:15 AM UTC
There's a definite time difference between the two photos above. The first photo is either pre-war, or very early war...no later than 1939. The second photo is definitely war-time. I have read that Bronze-Gray was the "official" color for carrier flight decks.
Colourcoats finally makes a Bronze-Grey paint:
https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/collections/colourcoats-royal-navy-narn-range/products/rn27-ap631-bronze-grey
Colourcoats finally makes a Bronze-Grey paint:
https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/collections/colourcoats-royal-navy-narn-range/products/rn27-ap631-bronze-grey
SGTJKJ
#041
Joined: July 20, 2006
KitMaker: 10,069 posts
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Posted: Thursday, July 23, 2020 - 04:54 AM UTC
Is the top picture a “true” color photo or has it been been colorized post-WWII? It seems to be in the same series as the black and white photo above.
If the color photo is genuine I will go for a grey for the deck - otherwise bronze green could be an option.
phantom_phanatic309
#372
Joined: March 10, 2010
KitMaker: 2,568 posts
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Posted: Thursday, July 23, 2020 - 05:09 AM UTC
I was thinking that photo of the Ark must be prewar looking at the colour scheme on the Swordfish. Silver dope and high-viz went out very quickly.
Compare the Ark with the photos taken at the time of of her sinking, I'm wondering if it ever got a wartime repaint. The same dark grey band is there. Interestingly it seems to only be on the bow and stern, fading to the all over 507c in the middle.
Thanks for the information on the deck colours Biggles. Going to make a note of that on my Revell Ark for reference when I get around to it. Mixing up a batch would be no problem.
Tim, that colour photo is awesome. The blue on that escort carrier behind are a lot brighter than I expected.
Compare the Ark with the photos taken at the time of of her sinking, I'm wondering if it ever got a wartime repaint. The same dark grey band is there. Interestingly it seems to only be on the bow and stern, fading to the all over 507c in the middle.
Thanks for the information on the deck colours Biggles. Going to make a note of that on my Revell Ark for reference when I get around to it. Mixing up a batch would be no problem.
Tim, that colour photo is awesome. The blue on that escort carrier behind are a lot brighter than I expected.
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, July 23, 2020 - 05:36 AM UTC
That darker gray band you refer to at bow and stern is simply shadow caused by the knuckle on the hull sides. Since the hull is sloped more at bow and stern, and not at all at midsections, the shadow is more pronounced at those areas. But there is evidence of heavy weathering just above the knuckle.
phantom_phanatic309
#372
Joined: March 10, 2010
KitMaker: 2,568 posts
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Posted: Thursday, July 23, 2020 - 07:20 AM UTC
The dark grey band above the waterline? Or under the deck overhang?
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