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Ships by Class/Type: Military Small Craft
For topics on PT boats, landing craft, Vietnam riverine, etc.
British Power Boat 63' MGB
Frigate
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West Virginia, United States
Joined: April 22, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 09:28 PM UTC
Gents,
One of my projects I'm starting to research is the British Power Boat Company 63' MGB. Essentially these were conversions of the RAF Rescue Boats. Obviously I'm looking at the older Airfix kit. I noticed on the GLS site they were proposing a conversion set for this kit, any thing ever come of this ?
Also any assistance in reserch would be appreciated. Such as hull #'s etc. Then I can start trying for photos, etc. Needless to say, this is for the proposed campaign for PT's, MGB's, etc.
The "Whaleback" hull is just too attractive to let pass. No real hurry on this, so any help would be great. TIA, Bruce
Gunny
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Posted: Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 09:41 PM UTC
Sounds Good, Bruce!
I'll see what I can come up with to help ya out mate!
~Gunny
Ripster
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Wien, Austria
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Posted: Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 09:46 PM UTC
Hi Bruce

I spoke to David Parkins of GLS a few weeks back with much the same question (I'm looking to build a Fairmile D sometime...) The various coastal forces kits he has listed are still in the pipeline, I believe the weapons sets will be coming out before the full hull kits though
Ripster
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Wien, Austria
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Posted: Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 10:45 PM UTC
Here's a useful link I just found...

HSL-142 - 63 FT HIGH SPEED LAUNCH
Frigate
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West Virginia, United States
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Posted: Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 11:37 PM UTC
Mates,
First, I really appreciate the help pouring in, a Great feature of this site ! OK, part of the info I've found so far is from "Royal Naval Coastal Forces - 1939-1945" by A.J.D.North.

The 63' "Whaleback" was essentially classified as an MA/SB. (Motor Anti-Submarine Boat) Numbered MA/SB 1-5, 22-39,40-45, & 49. The interesting fact is they were apparently built as MA/SB's, then converted to ASR's for the RAF, and MGB's for the Royal Netherland's Navy.

One question for Gunny, since they are not a "PT" as such, are they still eligible for the build ? Just wondering how strict the "Rules of Engagement" are !!!!!

Thanks again for the help, Shipmates !!!.............................Bruce
Gunny
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Posted: Friday, July 28, 2006 - 05:04 PM UTC

Quoted Text



The 63' "Whaleback" was essentially classified as an MA/SB. (Motor Anti-Submarine Boat) Numbered MA/SB 1-5, 22-39,40-45, & 49. The interesting fact is they were apparently built as MA/SB's, then converted to ASR's for the RAF, and MGB's for the Royal Netherland's Navy.

One question for Gunny, since they are not a "PT" as such, are they still eligible for the build ? Just wondering how strict the "Rules of Engagement" are !!!!!



Hi Bruce!

Well, I think that you already know the answer to your query, mate, but I will be as explicit as I can to clarify...I think that the key term here that you have used is an "MGB", which of course is a motor gun boat.

Now, if you read the campaign guidelines, in the opening paragraph, it states, "This Campaign celebrates the importance of the military small craft, in this instance the Patrol Torpedo Boat (PT-Boat), a small, fast vessel used by the United States Navy and the German Kriegsmarine in World War II to attack larger surface ships."

So basically, if this was a generic "small craft" campaign, I would have to say that yes, my friend, your subject entry is allowed, and welcomed, but since this is for the PT subjects only, I will have to say no, mate, not allowed in this one...now if you want to change that "MGB" to an "MTB" variant, then by all means, have at it! Here's a link for some fantastic conversion sets for the Airfix kits:

CLICK HERE

Scroll down the page about 2/3 of the way and you'll find the section that I'm speaking of!
Cheers!
~Gunny




Ripster
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Wien, Austria
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Posted: Friday, July 28, 2006 - 05:52 PM UTC
Hi Gunny

Without wishing to 'rock the boat' hoho, there are a couple of points in your last post I have to query mate...

1. "Patrol Torpedo Boat (PT-Boat), a small, fast vessel used by the United States Navy and the German Kriegsmarine "

The Royal Navy ran one or two of them as well I seem to recall!

2. You're right to direct people to the GLS site, he does some fantastic upgrade sets. However do please note that for MTB/MGBs etc so far it is mostly weapons sets on release, rather than complete kits (for example I know David Parkins is planning full kits for the MGB, MTB and HDML, amongst others, but they are not yet for sale )

Can't wait until they are mind you - the wallet will take a right hammering when that happens!

Finally, many MGBs and MTBs in RN service switched roles from one to the other, with several MGBs at least later being fitted with torpedoes. Perhaps in view of this you could flex the campaign rules a little to permit MGBs and fast rescue launches as well? Similar hulls were after all common to the different types/roles... Up to you of course though mate, you're the campaign leader!

As an aside, I've been reading up a bit on these lately (and hope to review some of the books soon), and it seems that the preferred RN tactic was for the MTBs to lie in wait for targets on auxiliary engines. When a coastal convoy came into range they would crash-start the main engines (doing so any earlier would warn the enemy through the horrendous noise the engines put out), run in to attack, and then withdraw at speed to meet up with a covering force of MTBs. All this at 30-40 knots, more often than not at night. Exhilirating, and I dare say scary stuff!

Gunny
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Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Friday, July 28, 2006 - 08:08 PM UTC
Hey Rip!

Don't worry bout rockin the boat, my friend, that's what a forum is all about (discussion, in a positive, constructive manner)...your points are duly noted, well put, and heck yeah, I'm well well aware of our mates in the RN and the boats operations...BUT, once again, this campaign highlights the PT- Boat, and the rules are going to stay the same, and unless the ship is built with some sort of torpedo tube(s), or the like, will not be a valid entry, mate...as I stated in the last post, if the MGB is built in an MTB variant, then A-OK!...plain and simple.
~Gunny
skipper
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Lisboa, Portugal
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Posted: Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 01:12 AM UTC
Hmm

I am trowing a couple more stones at Mark:
- Russians also had Torpedo Boats (American built, russian built (like the Tupolev G-5) and british built)
- Italian "Regia Marina" and their Motoscafo Silurante (MAS Boats)

Ok.. My input on this Campaign, which I have already enlisted, btw, and since I have missed the discussion due to connection problems is:
- We could have a Campaign devoted to all "Fast Attack Craft" including the variants...meaning if a hull was used for a MTB and in some variants it was also used a MGB or ASR then it would be a valid entry!
Sorry but I had to speak my piece and make things clear

Skipper
Gunny
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Posted: Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 01:29 AM UTC
Ok, Ok, you guys are killin 'me!

It's time for a bit of clarification, mates!
When I first proposed this campaign idea, I had a different name, which I felt would have been more fitting AND explanatory, which was "The Mosquito Fleet"...but in the approval process some how the name was changed...

Likewise, mates, ALL nationalities of naval service is welcome and encouraged!!! C'mon now, you really didn't think it was only limited to American and German subjects, did you???

Rule number one states quite clearly, "Any PT type vessel can be built in any scale, actual or fictional, from any nation and from any time period. All media types from plastic to resin, wood to fibreglass are permitted.


~Gunny
Ripster
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Wien, Austria
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Posted: Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 03:26 AM UTC
Isn't an MGB a PT type boat then? :-)

(I'm pulling your leg btw...)
Gunny
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Posted: Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 04:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Isn't an MGB a PT type boat then? :-)

(I'm pulling your leg btw...)



You're too much, mate!

If It's a PTGB it is!!!
Build me an MGB with a torpedo mount, my friend, and I will welcome her into the campaign!


" built in any scale, actual or fictional"


~Gunny
skipper
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Lisboa, Portugal
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Posted: Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 07:23 PM UTC
Mark

you're good on tacking in some Flak
I understand your point too and I agree, otherwise I wouldn't have signed in
I know this will be another successfull Campaign and it will have some amzing works, as usual!!

Skipper
Gunny
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Posted: Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 10:52 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Mark

you're good on tacking in some Flak


Remember, Rui,
I was raised by a U.S. Marine Drill Instructor!!
I better be able to take (and dish out! ) a little Flak, mate!


Quoted Text


I understand your point too and I agree, otherwise I wouldn't have signed in
I know this will be another successfull Campaign and it will have some amzing works, as usual!!

Skipper



Thanks for the support, my friend, I too am sure that this will be another succesful run here at MSW...I'm strongly thinking about going all out with a 1/72 scale diorama! We'll see what happens!
Cheers!
~Gunny
alross2
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Maine, United States
Joined: May 18, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 01:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The 63' "Whaleback" was essentially classified as an MA/SB. (Motor Anti-Submarine Boat) Numbered MA/SB 1-5, 22-39,40-45, & 49. The interesting fact is they were apparently built as MA/SB's, then converted to ASR's for the RAF, and MGB's for the Royal Netherland's Navy.



A bit of clarification here. The 63' MASBs were later used as crashboats, but the 63' type depicted in the Airfix kit was purpose-built. For more information on this type, get a copy of Adrian Rance's "Fast Boats and Flying Boats". It's a history of the British Power Boat Company and includes a list of all craft built in an appendix.

The boats receiving a major conversion in their transition from an MTB to an HSL were the surviving 70' Canadian Power Boat Company MTBs. This involved rebuilding the superstructure to that of the six or so purpose-built 70' CPB HSLs. Details of these boats can be found in (among others) Terry Holtham's work on RAF HSLs, the exact title of which I don't have at the moment. My copy is somewhere in a pile... :-}
alross2
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Maine, United States
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Posted: Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 01:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hmm

- Italian "Regia Marina" and their Motoscafo Silurante (MAS Boats)




Well, just to stir up the waters a bit... :-}. MAS is the Regia Marina acronym for Motoscafo Anti Sommergibile - anti submarine motorboat. MS is the RM acronym for Motoscafo Silurante - motor torpedo boat. So, technically, despite the fact that most carried torpedos, the MAS fall into the same general category as the MASB. However, they were primarily used against surface ships during WWII, which places them in an MTB operational category. The MASBs also operated primarily against surface targets, although without torpedos, which places them in an MGB operational category... :-}.

For a great deal of info, plans, and photos of the MAS, VAS, and MS types, get of copy of Erminio Bagnasco's I MAS E LE MOTOSILURANTI ITALIANE. There's also a great two-part article on the MAS by Bagnasco in the April and May 2004 issues of "Storia Militare".

Al Ross
skipper
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Lisboa, Portugal
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Posted: Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 07:58 PM UTC
Hi Al and Mark

A good discussion will definetly will provide excellent models


And Al,
Bagnasco and the publications by "Ufficio Storico Della Marina Militare" are top notch books!
I got both volumes on Italian Submarines are excellent! Due to the weight of those volumes I left the MAS book there

Skipper
MKS
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Cape Province, South Africa
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Posted: Saturday, September 02, 2006 - 09:16 PM UTC
Hi there,
There was a conversion article on converting the Airfix Rescue Launch to a 63 ft MGB (MGB 43) in the February 1980 issue of the Airfix Magazine.
A pdf copy of said article (as well as one on upgrading the Launch itself and on converting the Launch into a Motor Anti-Submarine boat (MASB) can be found on http://www.davecov.com.

Click on "Magazine Articles", then on "Airfix Magazine Articles Menu", followed by "Airfix Magazine Articles Menu - Warships ". Then click under "Airfix Magazine Articles " and finallly on "Airfix Magazine Articles - 1980s" for the list of the above articles.

Hope that helps.
Mike Schubert
Frigate
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West Virginia, United States
Joined: April 22, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 02:21 AM UTC
Mike,
Thank you for the info on the Airfix conversion, that's one I'll have to definitely get into. "Ye Olde Airfix Magazine" - ahhhh, I do miss it. Today's "Super-magazines" do terrific jobs - just depends how deep your wallet is ! But in the "Olde" days, it was the modelers skill and imagination that counted most ! Thanks again, Mike
cdsc123
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Gibraltar
Joined: August 09, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 12:52 AM UTC
Hi All
The Canadian 70ft Whalebacks mentioned by Al can be seen at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~andersonfamily./RCAFMarine.htm
3 survive to this day in Vancouver, they are called Vancouver Spirit, Malecite and Seaward.

A link to my Airfix RAF 63ft type II HSL converted to 63ft MA/SB;
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2751138230073935241rcgUci
32 is currently my Dad's although will shortly be sold.

Regards, Christian.
Gunny
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Posted: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 03:50 AM UTC
Ahoy Christian, Welcome to Model Shipwrights, mate!

Hey, that's a fine looking MA/SB, Bro!

Here's a Working Link for all y'all that haven't taken a peek at er yet. . .

Why don't ya tell us a little more about yourself, mate, what do you like to build, and how about a few more pics of your work?
~Gunny
cdsc123
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Gibraltar
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Posted: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 03:20 PM UTC
Hello Gunny
Thanks for making my link work, can you do the same for the other one with the Canadian HSLs? If you go to the site with the picture of my model (using your link) and keep clicking next it will show my other CF 1/72nd efforts, to see other albums click on full album then at the bottom of the page on the right hand side you can choose from 3 other public albums, they are other CF models at larger scales, also the real boats my Dad has owned which inspired them and a short "how to" on GRP hull building.
B Rgds, Christian.
Gunny
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Posted: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 03:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello Gunny
Thanks for making my link work, can you do the same for the other one with the Canadian HSLs? If you go to the site with the picture of my model (using your link) and keep clicking next it will show my other CF 1/72nd efforts, to see other albums click on full album then at the bottom of the page on the right hand side you can choose from 3 other public albums, they are other CF models at larger scales, also the real boats my Dad has owned which inspired them and a short "how to" on GRP hull building.
B Rgds, Christian.



Hey, no problem, Christian!

Working Link!

And don't forget, mate, as a member of KitMaker, you do have free photo hosting gallery space here to display your works!

Christian's Gallery

And here's a link to help you out if you have any image upload problems. . .

Image Help

Once again, welcome to the site, and hope to see more of you around!
Keep Modeling!
~Gunny
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