Im thinking photo-etch here. Some stuff is quite fiddly and hard to shape if they are rounded. Why are there few or no extras provided when you mess up or loose a certain part?

Of course not for the major parts but considering all the stuff you dont use there should be some room left for extras?

Cheers

I agree there should be a few parts that have a chance to fly into the unknown as extra.

Nice Handle there Bud .

I guess it forces you to buy another set, if you do mess up. It would not cost anything, really. I had the same question many times over. (It goes for the impossibly thin plastic parts attached with an enormously thick stub to the sprue as well... AVF Club guilty as charged ) And the other big question is: why put details to places where you must sand/whatever, so you'll have to replace them somehow...
At least it lets you challenge your scratchbuilding skills.

Some PE sets do have spare PE parts.....I guess you just haven't purchased any of the sets that have them.

I can see maybe having a PE spare included if the part is delicate and fragile......but if you lose a part...too bad, so sad....better luck next time.

Why don't you contact a PE producer and ask them yourself?

Well the reason for posting here were to let out some steam and see if Im the only one having these thoughts. And perhaps a manufacturer will see this and add a few extras of tricky parts as improvement in competition.

Cheers

I agree with you that there should be a few extra parts on the PE frets even most skilled of people sometimes lose a very small part to the unkown. I especially have a hard time with those tiny little wing nuts. I think they should put a little flap that you can bend and lay flat to glue onto the clamp that would make it a lot easier to attach them. The flap could slide under the top part of the clamp and be invisible right now all you have is a pointed edge to glue them on with
I think that at least one person that persist in posting very negative comments about everyones work and questions should take a little hint from a great man Abraham Lincoln
I am sure I will do a very poor job of quoting him but you will get the message
"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt:"
I for one really hesitate at submitting pics or asking too many questions exactly because of one of the previous post in this thread and honestly it is getting harder for me to push that mouse button on the "favorites" list to come to this site. All this makes me very sad
sorry for hijacking your thread

Fred, the previous (deleted) post is NOT at all common on this site. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of times it's been necessary to delete posts of this type. He's also established a new record for himself - to get your first post deleted AND get yourself banned from the site in a few minutes...

i agree some smaller or fragile parts can be duplicated , but why not ? maybe its price or if a part flies off into the great blue yonder it forces you to buy a new set,. good question though. as for the offending post i never saw it but as someone who has said one or two stupid ( very stupid ) things on this site all i can say is its very rare on here to get negative feedback.

Speaking as an infallible being who NEVER drops / loses a tiny part to the Carpet Monster are you, Gary?

If so, then you're probably a better man / modeller than all the rest of us put together.

- Steve

As someone who has never tried PE it is a bit off-putting that it is a one shot deal, in that if I get it wrong then I have to buy a new set. So would be useful if a few spares are included.

As for assuming that someone will have the right skill-set, well, we have to start somewhere!! I s'pose the way to do it is to go cheap at first.

Fred - As for negative posts, I can honestly say that I have never had any whenever I have posted a pic or asked for help. I do not post often, but when I do there has always been helpful responses in return

There is nothing wrong with venting about PE parts or the lack of spares parts......but do you actually expect a PE producer to spend more money and effort producing a set because there are folks that might be losing parts or breaking parts?

Why would someone go and buy a completely new set if they lost a small PE part? You can then decide to not bother with the PE part....or god forbid attempt to scratch build it.....or try to source a similar part from somewhere else.......don't buy a new PE set just because you lose a wingnut.

This is very subjective as modellers have different skill levels and different definitions of what "tricky parts" might be....practice and have fun.....no need for stress.

Don't rely on "perhaps" a PE producer will look at this post and have an epiphany and start producing sets with spares.....you are a customer......if you have an issue with the assembly of parts or think there should be spares then contact them directly......and contact them with examples and recommendations as to how you as a customer would be better served by having some spare parts included in the set.

If you bought something at a store that wasn't modelling related and it needed assembly and some of the little parts broke or you lost them would you merely post somewhere instead of contacting the producer or taking the item back to the store?

If you don't bother to contact them you'll never know and will never get any answers or results.

What are some examples of parts you are having difficulty with? Maybe there are modellers here that can give you tips and help you out? Maybe there are better techniques for you to try?

Actually, Jason, I dont see what the problem is. Isnt this a Forum to discuss every aspect of the Hobby?

And no, I dont refer to such items as toolclasps, nuts or wingnuts which already are available as extra sets, although quite a few manufacturers could provide more in a designated set. And I am aware that some provide a few extras.

The set Im recently working on is the ABER set PE 35118 for the Tristar Pz I A. The actual part are the 26+28 that together will become the Z-shaped H-profile reinforcement for the Girderbeam. Considering that the top part is to be bent in a unregualar shape two of the four pieces didnt come out as I wanted them when soldering. Additionally I just noted that they are positioned wrong on the plan. Which is typical as Ive soldered them to the Girderbeam.

I should have it a little more clear as to whom I was speaking of in regard to negative posts. I was not at all concerned about the profanity laced rant of the deleted poster. I had never seen his "handle" before and given the content of his post I knew immediately what would be done with it. I was speaking more to Gary. In my opinion he is very insensitive and needlessly blunt. I have read about ten of his post as I usually just look at the pics of the completed models and any explanations of techniques, I usually skip most of the feedback. Sorry. The ten or so I have read have overwhelmingly been at the very least not very nice and usually they are typical of a person exhibiting a sincere desire to indicate just how advanced and proficient he is and how hopelessly inept the person leaving the post is.
Frankly I am sick of Gary and his post
end of message

hi Fred , without wanting to stir up a hornets nest the vast numbers of people on this site are very helpful, a very small number on the other hand are not, i know as i myself have made two replies which after reading the posts closer realised the poster didn't mean any harm, it was the way i picked it up, but i did the adult thing and removed my comments and apologised in this case though i think your right !!!!!! when asking a reasonable question people demand a reasonable answer but sometimes the answer may not be so reasonable.but don't let this spoil your fun just roll with blows and i bet some guys will back you up. ps. having looked at your tiger ll i wouldnt say you have anything to worry about skill wise !!!!!!!!!!!! an old member of this site said to me if someone gives you a hard time about your models or modelling in general take a look at their gallery pics and 90% of the time it will make you feel better !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm also getting a little tired of wandering around behind mr. Owsley like a firefighter looking for work. I don't particularly hold to the 'if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything' adage, but i'm tired of seeing people attacked for no other reason than they don't hold Gary's view of the Universe.

Please Gary, tone it down 2-3 on the Richter scale...

I agree with you that you can discuss all aspects of the hobby....if you are simply venting then so be it...I think pretty much everyone that has bought a PE set has either lost a piece or broken a piece or bent a piece the wrong way....it is not the PE producers' fault....it is my problem as the modeller who chose to use the set. With time and skill and patience and preparation and research modellers get better at using PE....but the cost is usually broken and lost parts along the way.




You posed a question in your first post.....there are no extras when you mess up because the producer does their research and development and design of the parts to their best abilities.....they provide a detail set to improve and supplement the original kit.....not to provide the modeller with spares should they mess up. The producers have put out a product that in their opinion is designed to be assembled successfully the first time...and it should not result in broken parts if done properly. You should feel good and lucky if there are spare parts included....and not that is owed to you by the producer because of you breaking parts, assembling them poorly, or losing parts.

The modeller wants every tiny detail to be perfect just like on the actual vehicle.....well....there is a price for that and it comes in the form of tiny fragile parts. A modeller buys the set and breaks a part or loses a part or assembles it poorly and it becomes the responsibility of the PE producer to include spare parts?....I think not.




It's unfortunate that you didn't assemble the parts to your liking and that you didn't notice until after that the position is wrong in the instructions.....This in my opinion does not warrant having spare parts included in the set.

I hope you have success with the rest of your project.

It looks like Fred used to like Gary back in March...

http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=115717#952899

part of the problem when reading any post is not knowing how to take it, whether its meant as a joke or just down right ignorance ( i should know ). but i think you are wrong when you say your comments have no effect on site members . if a person shows his work or asks a legit question and gets a negative comment or reply without any real constructive reason then they tend to think why the hell do i bother and will go else where. and calling people REMF,S does nothing to help. like you i am ex military 18 yrs paras 16th air assault and HM security forces one thing i did learn was tolerance of others . (sometimes hard ) i know , but not everyone here was or is military. i know we have crossed swords before but this just makes things a bit more interesting as long as we (ALL) keep it constructive and well meaning . cheers tony. i want you to know this was typed in a polite and respectful manner .

Given the choice of spending $15-18 on a PE set and spending $20-24 on a PE with extra spare parts, I'll pick the cheaper one. I buy PE sets knowing that I won't use some of the really tiny pain in the butt parts. It saves me the time of attempting to scratchbuild the detail.

Paul

As for the side topic, we could potentially start a thread on thread manners but we'll get support for both ends of the spectrum and the middle. Regardless, IMHO I don't think it belongs here. I thought Toke's question was a good one and Gary's response was blunt but not mean.

Probably not, but with the quality of kits and the refinement of details today, theres less and less need for all these small details. In most cases these small bolts and nuts are better served dimension-wise in plastic and resin, and are becoming easier to attain. Maybe when etch producers realise that their sales are going down, they may be willing to listen to suggestions for improvements.


Talking of double standards .... its not so long since you proclaimed that "Armorama was second division at best ... and that was on a good day". But with your 1,172 posts, 23 years in the army and your 40 years of building experience, maybe we should just feel flattered that you took the time to respond?

Well despite Mr Owlsleys comments, I feel that extras should be provided. I do a lot of 350 scale ships, and in almost every case, there are extra inclind ladders and ships railing and the like, because almost everyone of us messes up from time to time. I also make it a point to save what I don't use both Armor and ships, so I do have recourse. As to scratching out replacements, yes I do that too.

There is a polite way to respond to questions and a rude way. Having gotten into a few with Mr Owlsley, I have to agree with most that he invariably chooses to be rude. But, I agree somewhat with his comments and suggest developing a thicker skin. Some folks just like to be a center of controversy. Maybe why we've gotten the nick name of "Armo-drama"

how about RANT-O-RAMA

Jason!

What does then warrant having spares in the set according to you?

I still can get what you are trying to prove here. First the "not belonging here" about the thread and now "its your own fault" argumentation?

Well has anyone blamed the manufacturers for this, even though one could because of misguiding instructions? By the way, why should we accept inaccurate instructions?
You wouldnt take it when buying and installing a DVD-player, would you?
-Oh, you made a shortcircuit, didnt you check if the instructions were correct?

I could understand if you had posted that you never had a use for spares yourself but this "its your own fault" rant is rather odd, dont you think so yourself?

The discussing is whether theres a need among modellers for spares of certain parts of photoetch as they are sometimes hard to shape. Ever tried to roll a cooling tube for a MG-34? And if it perhaps could increase sales for manufacturers who chose to do so?

Despite all you have written I cant say that you have contributed much on this topic.

Never mind the PE pieces,how bout some of the smaller plastic pieces ? they can go flying pretty far,it wouldnt hurt to have some extra of the smaller plastic pieces,but I guess thats where a good spare parts box or some scratch building skills come in.

the parts that my carpet monster likes to eat the most are the small lifting hooks on the back of the engine deck on tigers panthers and tiger ll,s