| Subject: reqeust for help with new zealand tanks |
 | andrew holland
merkavafan | Location: Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 10:48 PM UTC |
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G'day gents, I am busy getting reference pictures together for 2 new zealand tanks I'm planning to build ( these are the scorpion cvr(t) and the M41 walker bulldog). So far I've found some beauties on anzac steel & kiwis in armour websites & jeff plowmans book "royal new zealand armoured corps" . however I was wondering if anybody here might have some pictures that they may like to share with me ( & others that might want to build the same tanks)? Any help ,no matter how big or small would be greatly appreciated & I look forward to hearing from anyone who can help. Cheers, Andy PS TANKS ROCK!!  |
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 | darin hassett
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| Posted: Friday, April 17, 2009 - 04:16 AM UTC |
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I don't have pics of Anzac cimitars but i have some from the Iraqi army would you like them? |
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 | David Waters
D_J_W | Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
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| Posted: Friday, April 17, 2009 - 10:40 AM UTC |
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Hi Andrew, These should be of some assistance: NZ Scorpion and NZ M41 cheers  David |
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| andrew holland
merkavafan | Location: Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Saturday, April 18, 2009 - 10:56 PM UTC |
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G'day darren & david, firstly many thanks for your prompt replies to my request. Darren :- thanks for the offer but it's New Zealand Scorpions & M41s that I'm after. David:- Wow!!! your pictures were fantastic and are what I was looking for so once again many thanks for that. I have a couple of more questions though & I hope someone might be able to help. 1) on the M41 I've been lead to believe that they used British radios and had British style antenna bases ; if so can anyone post a picture of it? 2) I've got AFV Clubs kits for both vehicles & I want to have crew hatches on both vehicles open but I've no pictures of the interior views of the hatches; can anyone help ? 3) I'm trying to decide whether or not to attempt scratch building interiors for one of these vehicles or not so my next request is does anyone have interior pictures ? I hope I'm not asking too much but I'd really appreciate any help from people who know more about kiwi scorpions & M41s than I do. Once again ,thanks for all your help so far guys & look forward to hearing from anyone who may be able to help. Cheers, Andy TANKS ROCK |
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| David Waters
D_J_W | Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 - 12:19 AM UTC |
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Hi Andy Sorry for the delay, I'm working 14 hour days at present  I will get back to you on ANZAC Day. (that's Saturday 25 April, for the rest of the world  ) cheers David |
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| andrew holland
merkavafan | Location: Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 - 10:42 PM UTC |
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G'day David , no problem with the delay mate!!! looking forward to hearing from you on ANZAC Day. Cheers, Andy TANKS ROCK |
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| David Waters
D_J_W | Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
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| Posted: Friday, April 24, 2009 - 02:27 PM UTC |
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Hi Andy, Hopefully these will be of some help; Quoted Text
1) on the M41 I've been lead to believe that they used British radios and had British style antenna bases ; if so can anyone post a picture of it?
Yes, they were fitted with a C-42 and B-47 radio sets, the same as were fitted in the Centurions (before we sold them to Australia)  Radio Installation in a Centurion  Antenna bases were also British style, one infront of the loaders hatch the other behind it. In keeping with our colonial love for modifing things, our Scorpions were fitted with two AN/VRC-64 radios with MX-6707 antenna bases.  Quoted Text
2) I've got AFV Clubs kits for both vehicles & I want to have crew hatches on both vehicles open but I've no pictures of the interior views of the hatches; can anyone help ?
   As for the Scorpion there are some good ones at Toadman's Pictures FV101 Quoted Text
3) I'm trying to decide whether or not to attempt scratch building interiors for one of these vehicles or not so my next request is does anyone have interior pictures ?
As for scratch building the interiors, may I suggest cheating  put crewmen in the hatches. But if you really want too here are some pictures of the M41 interior I hope this may be of some help, if you require any other info please just ask and I will see what I can do. cheers David |
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| andrew holland
merkavafan | Location: Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Monday, April 27, 2009 - 12:19 AM UTC |
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G'day again David , sorry for not getting back to you sooner but ANZAC Day turned out to be bigger than anticipated  . Needless to say Sunday not so much fun. The info you supplied was excellent so many thanks for that , it is greatly appreciated!!! I also have some more questions and a tweaks list which I'll post tomorrow after work as your input into my research has been invaluable!! Cheers, Andy |
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| andrew holland
merkavafan | Location: Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 11:27 PM UTC |
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G'day David & all others, Finally got round to getting on the site (very early starts & late finishes at work  ). Anyway, enough whining!! here is my tweaks list for the scorpion in new zealand : 1)canvas cover needed on 76mm gun, from mantlet quarter of the way down the gun 2)tube required under exhaust (for antennas) 3)three stakes required down left hand side of vehicle to secure three man tarp/tent/hootchie 4)three man tarp/tent/hootchie required for left hand side of vehicle 5)American style "MX-6707" antenna bases/mounts 6)tow rope to be added to front left & right front mounted bollards , to run up both sides of vehicle 7)plate to be fitted over the sight housing (n.z. scorpions did not have night sight fitted) 8) two water jerrys to each side of rear turret bustle 9)three packs to be fitted around turret 10)American style helmets required for crewmen (hornet heads, modern u.s. tank crew with separate mics, from firestorm models, VERY good quality). 11) small rolled up tarp /cover to go at the bottom of the engine grill beside drivers position 12)scratch build a slave lead cable spare road wheel or sprocket strapped onto the back of the vehicle somewhere(?) 13) decals for VEHICLE(?) may be hard or impossible to find; may have to make own stencils or decals 14)eduard P.E. set 35457 cvr(t)required for side bins on turret (otherwise will have to scratch build these) , also good for generally adding a bit of finesse 15)old school minimi machine gun with iron sights with bipod legs opened (for crew commanders position so there it is , any thoughts , comments, suggestions , reference pictures no matter how big or small will be gratefully received & welcomed. looking forward to hearing from you David or anyone else who may be able to help. P.S. David; just curious ,were you ever in the RNZAC ? Cheers, Andy TANKS ROCK!!! |
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| David Waters
D_J_W | Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
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| Posted: Friday, May 01, 2009 - 11:02 PM UTC |
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Hi Andy Sounds good, just a few points: Quoted Text
3)three stakes required down left hand side of vehicle to secure three man tarp/tent/hootchie
Normally 1.8m (6-ft) long 50mm dia and painted grey. Quoted Text
6)tow rope to be added to front left & right front mounted bollards , to run up both sides of vehicle
Best made from thin braided nylon 1.5-2mm dia. If you weather them with pigments/pastels they will remain flexable. Quoted Text
 two water jerrys to each side of rear turret bustle
Similar to the Aust and British water cans, Mouse House do a set of Australian cans and Accurate Armour do a British set. Quoted Text
9)three packs to be fitted around turret
Normally standard US ALICE pack, filled to overloading. Quoted Text
11) small rolled up tarp /cover to go at the bottom of the engine grill beside drivers position
Vinyl coated canvas. Quoted Text
13) decals for VEHICLE(?) may be hard or impossible to find; may have to make own stencils or decals
These should be of some help:    and for your M41  Headlights were fitted either up or down and were the same as fitted to the M113. Large headlights were fitted at first, but soon went west during range shoots. Vehicle numbers range from NZ 34180 -34184, 34187 – 34196, 34198 – 34204. Quoted Text
P.S. David; just curious ,were you ever in the RNZAC ?
Does it show?  Yes, 74 to 91 cheers David |
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| andrew holland
merkavafan | Location: Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 - 10:55 PM UTC |
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G'day David , firstly please forgive me for not replying sooner but work has been flat out & we had a family emergency to deal with plus the normal dramas associated with my job!!! So yeah ,it's been a hell of a few days but things have settled back down. Anyway , once again your knowledge & help have really been appreciated. A couple more questions if you don't mind?.... 1) do you have any close up pictures of the centurion style antenna bases that were fitted to the kiwi M41s ? ( on other reference pictures I've found of Centurions they have 2 different types & it's got me a bit confused  ) 2) Do you know of any good books and/or websites that deal with the RNZAC postwar period to the present? By the way , I'm going away on exercise soon so there's no rush for a reply ( I'm an Abrams T.L.O. in the R.A.A.C). have a good one mate, Cheers, Andy TANKS ROCK |
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| andrew holland
merkavafan | Location: Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 09:50 PM UTC |
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G'day David , Finally got back and now have a bit of time to myself!!!  . I was just wondering if you had any answer for my previous questions?? Have a good one mate and look forward to hearing from you. Cheers, Andy |
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| David Waters
D_J_W | Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 10:05 PM UTC |
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Hi Andy, Sorry about the delay, life on this side of the ditch has been pretty full on. Firstly Quoted Text
1) do you have any close up pictures of the centurion style antenna bases that were fitted to the kiwi M41s ? ( on other reference pictures I've found of Centurions they have 2 different types & it's got me a bit confused )
Sorry all my photos of M41 don't show the antenna bases clearly, but a clear example can be found on Toadman's Tank Pictures, here and hereQuoted Text
2) Do you know of any good books and/or websites that deal with the RNZAC postwar period to the present?
The only book I know of is Jeffrey Plowman's KiwiArmour No.6, available through his website which also has some info on postwar Kiwi armour. Quoted Text
By the way , I'm going away on exercise soon ...... ( I'm an Abrams T.L.O. in the R.A.A.C).
have a good one mate,
Some of us are spending up to 16 hours a day, 6 days a week stuck in a coolstore packing Kiwifruit  still it will all be over on a month or so and then back to the models cheers David |
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| andrew holland
merkavafan | Location: Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 11:11 PM UTC |
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G'day David, Many , many thanks for the pics of the antenna bases!! !! That has been a great help & has cleared up the confusion . I already have Jeff Plowman's book ( Kiwis in Armour no. 6) & I definitely rate it as a brilliant book , it's just a shame that there are not many books or websites out there on the RNZAC . Once again , your help & knowledge is gratefully appreciated  . Cheers , Andy TANKS ROCK!!!! |
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| andrew holland
merkavafan | Location: Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 07:39 PM UTC |
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G'day David and all , As yet I haven't started on either my scorpion or M41 yet as I've been away on exercise for the last couple of months !!) I have , however, come across a little treasure chest of pictures on the following website : www,hobbyhavoc.com , go to gallery then go to real world tanks. There you will find about 4 pages of kiwi M41s and Scorpions . Trust me ,you wont be disappointed , some of the pictures are from the 1960s and most are of good picture quality!! . Definitely worth a look if your planning to build a Kiwi Scorpion or M41. I've also been looking for pictures of Kiwi Ferret scout cars (both mk. 1 & 2) but haven't had much luck . Would anyone know of any good websites where I could find some good reference pictures??? any help would be greatly appreciated. David , I think you'll really like these pictures!!! Anyway gents , hope you enjoy the pictures as much as I do Cheers , Andy TANKS ROCK!!! |
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| David Waters
D_J_W | Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 09:08 PM UTC |
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Hi Andrew,  very nice great find. I love photos from the 1960s, the vehicles are yet to be fitted with British radios, and those charter parade photos, now that brings back memories  I know I have some photo of Ferrets filed away somewhere,  I will see what I can find for you. cheers David |
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| andrew holland
merkavafan | Location: Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 11:16 PM UTC |
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G'day David , Really pleased to hear you liked the photos !! I had a feeling that they would bring back some memories for you !! I hope that others on this forum enjoy the pictures as much as yourself & I did!!! Looking forward to seeing those Ferret pictures mate !!  Cheers, Andy TANKS ROCK!!!! |
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 | Erik von Rosen
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| Posted: Friday, August 07, 2009 - 11:13 AM UTC |
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Thanks mate!!!
I'm building an NZ M41A3 right now so those photos will come to good use.
Cheers,
/E
BTW: If one looks on page 2 in the "Everything else" gallery there are a few more 1960's era M41A3 pictures. |
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| andrew holland
merkavafan | Location: Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Friday, August 07, 2009 - 12:03 PM UTC |
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G'day Erik , whoops , forgot to mention that page!! Glad the link has helped you mate. By the way , the Royal New Zealand Armoured Corps used the M41A1. Externally all four variants of the M41 series light tank look almost identical , the differences between them took place internally . Cheers , Andy TANKS ROCK!!!! |
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| Erik von Rosen
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| Posted: Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 02:07 AM UTC |
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Andrew, thanks for the correction. I dug out my Hunnicut Light tank part 2 and re-read the M41 part to refreshing my memory regarding M41 version. I also found this album on PrimePortal: http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/azrael_raven/m41_walker_bulldogOne question: There are to types of stowage bars on the side of the turret of the M41A1-3. Some just have the ends of the bars welded to the turrets (like those on the NZ tanks I've seen and like those included in the Skybow kit). Example: http://data3.primeportal.net/tanks/azrael_raven/m41_walker_bulldog/images/m41_walker_bulldog_06_of_16.jpg The other type have the ends bent in 90 degreds and welded to the turret along the bent part (as in the AFV Club kit). Example: http://data.primeportal.net/tanks/bill_spidle/m41/images/m41_14_of_58.jpgHave anybody ever seen an NZ tank with the "second" type? Finally: I noticed that the NZ headlight configuration are not the same as in any of the M41 kits (and it's not quite the same as the early config descibed in the Hunnicut book). NZ config: http://data3.primeportal.net/tanks/azrael_raven/m41_walker_bulldog/images/m41_walker_bulldog_04_of_16.jpg US late type (as in the kits): http://data.primeportal.net/tanks/bill_spidle/m41/images/m41_39_of_58.jpgCheers, /E |
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| andrew holland
merkavafan | Location: Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 10:18 PM UTC |
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G'day Erik , David & all who might be following this thread, Erik ; I am using the AFV Club kit ( U.S. M41A3 Walker Bulldog Light Tank , AF 35041) . Thanks a lot for pointing out the situation on the grab handles on the turret as I'd overlooked that . If you want to make a kiwi M41 in the early days of their service ( plain olive drab or bronze green I think ; David , can you confirm this?? ) then you can use the bent/angled grab handles on the turret , as I want to do a cammed up onefrom the late 70s / early 80s I have to fill in the indents where the kit grab handles would've gone and replace them with wire so they look welded on . Yes , your right about the headlight configuration . On my kit I will have to cut / sand down the area where the kit headlights would normally sit . Not hard to do though!! Thanks again for pointing out these things , this has saved me a lot of grief  !! David ; do you have any thoughts or comments that might help ?? it would be gratefully received . Cheers, Andy TANKS ROCK!!!! |
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| andrew holland
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| Posted: Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 11:06 PM UTC |
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Removed by original poster on 08/16/09 - 12:07:22 (MST). |
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| Erik von Rosen
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| Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2009 - 09:15 AM UTC |
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Andrew,
Just wanted to let you know that I'm still out there. A vacation trip kept me away from internet for some time.
I'm also going for a MERDEC-style NZ M41 and are using the AFV Club kit, so I'll have to do the same changes to the rails and head lights. I'll post my progress here as soon as I think I have something to show.
Cheers,
/E |
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| andrew holland
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| Posted: Friday, August 28, 2009 - 06:36 PM UTC |
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G'day Erik , Firstly I will apologize for the delay in replying as I've been away on exercise again & since been back I've been spending time with my family!! I'm very keen to see your progress by the way!! David ; have you had any luck finding those kiwi ferret pictures?? I still haven't started any of my scorpion , M41 or ferret yet as works a bit full on at the moment so there is not too much time for models unfortunately. One more question David .... Do you know how many ferrets the RNZAC had in service?? I've been searching the internet to gather more reference on the ferret and have nearly zero luck  Look forward to hearing from you both. Cheers, Andy TANKS ROCK |
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| David Waters
D_J_W | Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 09:31 AM UTC |
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Greetings Andrew Quoted Text
One more question David .... Do you know how many ferrets the RNZAC had in service??
Yes SCOUT-CAR, FERRET, Mk 1, FV 701C. Three of these entered service with the RNZAC in the late 1950s, and remained in service until about 1978. NZ 29413, NZ 29414 and NZ 29415. SCOUT-CAR, 4X4, RECONNAISSANCE, Mk 2, FERRET Mk 2. Six entered service with the RNZAC in 1962, and remained in service until the late 1970s. NZ 30870, NZ 30876, NZ 30876, NZ 30877, NZ 30878, NZ 30879, NZ 30880 and NZ 30881. There were no distinctive NZ modifications they were all pretty much standard British. As for radios, by the looks of antenna bases the Mk 1s were originally fitted with No. 19 sets and were latter fitted with Larkspur radios, C42 and C13, the Mk 2s were fitted with C42 and C13. The Mk 1s spent their entire carrer painted Deep Bronze Green, the Mk 2s were Deep Bronze Green up until about 1978 when they were painted in the NZ modified MERDC scheme.      cheers David |
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| andrew holland
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| Posted: Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 09:27 PM UTC |
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G'day from across the river David , what can I say ?? WOW !!!WOW !! WOW!! Those pictures are really brilliant !! Words fail me & that does not happen often . To say I'm really pleased with those pictures is an under-statement !! . Many ,many thanks again David . I owe you a favor now Cheers , Andy P.S. I'll probably have more questions soon , hope you don't mind? TANKS ROCK |
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| andrew holland
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| Posted: Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 10:53 AM UTC |
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G'day from across the creek again David, Yep ; you guessed it .... more questions . Hope you don't mind ? What were the personal weapons for crewmen of the M41A1 , scorpion & ferret and in what years were those said personal weapons in service ? and could you recommend and good manufacturer of those weapons in 1:35 scale? Another question ; ( more of a professional curiosity/interest type question ) what were the above vehicles like to maintain ? I've been away a lot lately on exercises and I'm off to the U.S. shortly for another exercise so if I don't reply straight away you'll know why. I look forward to hearing from you again , your help/advice /knowledge is always appreciated . Once again , the photo's you've posted have been Fantastic reference so many thanks for that again!!! Cheers, Andy TANKS ROCK!!!! |
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| David Waters
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| Posted: Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 09:03 PM UTC |
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Greetings and salutations Andrew, from the farside of the ditch; So the easy one first  Not at all, I will just have to dust off the old grey matter Quoted Text
What were the personal weapons for crewmen of the M41A1 , scorpion & ferret and in what years were those said personal weapons in service ?
Firstly for M41 and Ferret: Up until 1970 (approx) Browning HP 9mm, pistol  Sterling L2A1 SMG  from early 70s to end of service M16A1  and occasionally L1A1 SLR  Scorpion: 1982 to 1988 Sterling L2A1 SMG, M16s were to big to fit into a Scorpion 1988 to end of service Steyr AUG Carbine (350mm barrel)  Quoted Text
and could you recommend and good manufacturer of those weapons in 1:35 scale?
:| good question First the easy one, M16 – Tamiya, Dragon etc most are ok unless you are into rivet counting L1A1 SLR – the only one I can think of is Firestorm Steyr – Mouse House Enterprises were talking about producing it 1/35, but I don't know if they ever did. Sterling SMG – the only one that I know of was put out by Italeri as part of Modern light Weapon Set long out of production. Quoted Text
Another question ; ( more of a professional curiosity/interest type question ) what were the above vehicles like to maintain ?
Now casting my mind (what there is left of it) back some 30 or so years From a crew point of view, M41s and Ferrets were no great problems, apart from the fact that they were getting near the end of their service life, so spares were a bit of a problem. The Scorpion was not suited to New Zealand conditions and as a result we had a tendency to over service the vehicles, also the local terrain took a heavy toll on the vehicles suspension. So at times it seemed that we spent more time in vehicle maintenance than anything else. cheers David |
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| Erik von Rosen
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| Posted: Monday, November 09, 2009 - 05:37 AM UTC |
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Hi agin guys Sorry to posting some negative vibes here but I just found out something that might pull the plug on my NZ tank project forever. I relized that there are early and late production turrets (not M41 vs. M41A1 turrets) and that all pictures I've seen of Kiwi M41's have the early style. All the kits on the market (AFV Club, Skybow and Tamiya) have the late. The difference can be seen in these two Prime Portal albums (welds, much rounder shape on lower half etc.). Early (NZ): http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/azrael_raven/m41_walker_bulldog/ Late: http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/bill_spidle/m41/ Also the photos in the links posted earlier in this thread show the differences. Not sure if I will find the courage to have a go with the putty. And now for the million dollar question: anybody seen the late turret type on Kiwi M41's? /E |
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| David Waters
D_J_W | Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
Member Since: December 30, 2005
Posts: 268 entire network,
1 this site
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| Posted: Monday, November 09, 2009 - 07:32 AM UTC |
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Hi Erik You can save your money, all NZ vehicles were M41A1. The conversion should not be that hard, just slightly round off where the two turret halfs join, redo the weld and relocate the commander's machine gun. Drawings of the early and late types can be found at hobbyhavoc cheers David |
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