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General Ship Modeling: Creating Ship Dioramas
Topics on building dioramas are grouped here
ICM 1:72 Seehund - reality check
MrMox
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Posted: Monday, September 21, 2009 - 09:35 AM UTC
Maybe more a "don´t overdo it" check - its hard not getting carried away when doing something thats fun.

Heres ICM´s nice little Seehund on a base - but is it to much, should I cut down on it and go more basic ?

Aside from that - does anybody have a picture of it taken during the war, showing how it would have been stored ashore - I have tried to do a wooden structure, but I lack decent referances on this ?



Cheers/Jan
#027
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Posted: Monday, September 21, 2009 - 09:55 AM UTC
That looks very nice to me Jan.
mj
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Posted: Monday, September 21, 2009 - 01:03 PM UTC
Jan, I wouldn't change a thing...looks awesome.

I was thinking of picking up one of these when I saw it announced. How was the kit? You really got me drooling again.

cheers,
Mike
Gunny
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Posted: Monday, September 21, 2009 - 01:32 PM UTC
Looking good to me as well, Jan...good images of many midget subs are few and far between, mate, not sure if these will give you any ideas...maybe a little more "bits and pieces" laying about, tools, etc...a bit of clutter makes for a nice scene, at times...






Please, do keep us posted of your choices and progress, Mr. Klarbæk!

Cheers,
~Gunny
Skayden
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Posted: Monday, September 21, 2009 - 03:30 PM UTC

I agree... the scene doesn't detract from the presentation, it definitely makes it more visually interesting.

MrMox
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Posted: Monday, September 21, 2009 - 08:31 PM UTC
Thanks guys, I was a bit afraid that it would be too much - and that it would distract from the model itself.

Mike, I have just submitted a review to Jim - I guess he will have it up later this week or weekend - but putting it short - a nice little kit, a good representation of the original and at a great value - buy it - build it and enjoy it

Thanks for the pics Mark, unfortunately i have them both and the only hint at what it should look like.

Cheers/Jan

Skayden
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Posted: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 02:31 AM UTC


Just out of curiosity, are you calling that "done" or are you planning to paint the figures and the metal drum and crate? My first instinct was that you were planning to paint them, but the more I look at it I think it looks great exactly as-is because the figures enhance the scene while keeping the focus on the sub. Kind of like a photograph where only the subject of the photo is in color and everything else is in black and white.

Of course, the major downside of doing something "artsy" like that is that 9 out of 10 people who look at it are going to ask the same question I did and you'll get tired of saying "no, I did that on purpose..."




MrMox
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Posted: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 03:00 AM UTC
Hi Dan, no its in-progress, but no need to do more than needed if I decided to trash some of it. The figures and stuff will get painted, likewise the wooden support.

I find that the figures ad a sense of scale to the sub,

Cheers/Jan
ajkochev
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Posted: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 04:05 AM UTC
I love it! This will look awesome when done. I think a bit more would even be good. Like, a coiled rope or chain some where and a small toolbox on the ground near the figure at the bow. I personally love a cluttered dio.
Halfyank
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Posted: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 06:02 AM UTC
I think it looks pretty darn good as it is, finsihed of course. If you really want to go all out here are a couple of pics from Google images.



spaarndammer
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Posted: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 07:34 AM UTC
Hi Jan,

I like your Seehund very much. It looks like a nice kit to build. I must admit that I'm a bit hooked by building small (unusual) vessels during my current Barchino build, so probably I will add the Seehund as well to my collection. Thanks for sharing.



Jelger
MrMox
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Posted: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 07:38 PM UTC
Thanks Rodger - nice pics, the first looks like a building jig from the yard which propably wouldn´t fit in with weathering on this build, but I still have one kit

The second is interesting, wonder if I have some appropiate wheels in my spares box.

Jelger - just go ahead, but carefull, subs can be addictive

Cheers/jan
jba
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Posted: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 10:00 PM UTC
Oh dear, sorry Jan, I just discover your thread!
may I give you a honest opinion?
Ah, first i really love your sub model, it's really very nice, and the figs you plan using are really great, it's just a bit damageable that those won't be grouped -for instance in front of the boat so that it could sort of do a hotspot especially since you have a bit of space left? uh I guess it's too late!
Now for the stuff I personnaly don't like,
The base is too high,
I don't like those dios with some badge or something, did you ever see Rembrandt cutting a square at the bottom left of one of his painting to put his town's logo? no you don't As it's still a german WW2 sub, that sort of looks like "honour to our heroes" thing, and there's something slightly itching with this as far as I am concerned.
But well, great dio, that's just what's around it that sorta, well *itches*


Dr_Who2
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Posted: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 11:35 PM UTC
Jan,
was there color wise any reference you chose and also care to disclose?

Here is a Seehund "in flight" condition:
http://www.u-boot-archiv.de/bilder/kleinstuboote/seehund.jpg

and here a drawing showing the torpedo head painted red for unknown reasons:

http://www.u-boot-archiv.de/bilder/kleinstuboote/seehund_zeichnung.GIF

I am pretty sure you have this already - so just in case:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kleinst_Uboot_Seehund.JPG
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Seehund_Kriegsmarine.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Unterseeboot_1.jpg

This site, though in german language, gives some input on the last stand of those midget subs,
CLICK: http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/4504-bilder/seehund.htm

From my understanding the following paints were used:

  1. Up to upper edge of the air tanks:
    RAL 7016
  2. Above the air tanks:
    Depended where the vessel was supposed to operate and was decided individually.
    Since I do not want to confuse the original wording with a translation, here is what I understood as possibilities in german language naming:
    Schlickgrau Matt
    Blaugrau Matt
    Blauschwarz Matt
  3. (wood/steel)Deck:
    RAL 9001 (should be jet black)


If you would like to check for yourself, please feel free to consult the following original transcript of the shipyard direction in german language:

For 1940:
http://www.u-boote-online.de/dieboote/farben_maerz_1940.html

For 1944:
http://www.u-boote-online.de/dieboote/farben_juli_1944.html

I highly recommend everyone interested in the painting of german WWII ships this book, which comes with english captions as well:
Author:
Dieter Jung, Arno Abendroth, Norbert Kelling
Titel:
Anstriche und Tarnanstriche der deutschen Kriegsmarine
ISBN:
978-3763759644

You will find most of the color questions answered pretty well.

As for the transportation I found no evidence of a wooden crate as such. Common sense indicates so indeed.
However, I recall a picture showing the Seehund stowed on a train cart with a undercarriage/support structure underneath it. In fact should be the same undercarriage as you chose. Else, the whole sub was standing clear on the train cart. Have to search for that evidence since I can not find it right now :-(

To prevent any misunderstanding:
I, for my part, like the visual appearence of the Seehund no matter the 101 % correct painting or not. The weathering is quiet heavy considering it is a midget submarine. The torpedo head most likely was brass colored with some greyish grease to it.

I highly support your aim to give the vessel a diorama. However, and that may be just me, it looks kind of lost without a visual background to accompany it. A scene at a harbour comes to mind with a cobbled ground and the water aside the pier.

Just my two cents and other than that, I hope some of the hints turn out useful.
MrMox
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Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - 01:22 AM UTC
Thanks Jean-Bernard and Dariush.

No need to ask for imput if I couldn´t handle a honest opinion Jean-Bernard, and I value your comments as it allso reflects my "fear" that the display would be "too much".

Theres 2 interesting consideration to be taken -
one is the visual impact of the display, will it be too cluttered and distract from the main issue, namely the seehund, or should I go the "KISS" way - "keep it simple, stupid!"
another issue are more moral side of it, I think we share the same sentiment of the third reich and the impact it had on both our countries during the war, and the last thing I want to, is to glorify this.

I´m still walking around myself and looking at it ...

I myself have some doubts about the colors - that "flying" version is one of those with added fueltanks and despite a heavy weathering it looks like its only painted in one colour - the row of boats is interesting - some looks to be uniformly coloured other seems to have a 2 colour layout, or is just because they are resting in the water ?? alltogether they look quite light.

The instructions have 2 suggestions, a light gray and one with a dark gray and mottled gray spots.

The one on the trailer looks light gray - the others in the yard looks dark (primer??)

Would the midgets be painted like their bigger sisters? - I doubt if they did that, but again ?

I have used the upper hull colour for my build (from lifecolor DKM set) as i think its realistic from the pictures at hand - other variants most surely excisted.

Initially i have thoughts of doing 4 seehunds in a diorama, one partially submerged and the rest on land i various degrees of damage - maybe one leaning on the rest from bombdamage ? - but other projects is waiting, and I can still do it at another time

Cheers/jan
Dr_Who2
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Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - 02:20 AM UTC
Jan,
Thank you so much considering Jean-Bernard´s feelings seriously. I highly appreciate that and feel very pleased to notice people do not and should not forget about the devastating iniquity back in WW II.
Being a citizen of just that country that brought so much pain and inhumanity to face the world isn´t an easy task to live with.
My thoughts and prayers still are with those having suffered so badly and given their lives to end the sick regime that once ruled germany and tried to spread uncalled for.

For this, it is quiet hard for me to tell anything about the badge included.
I do not like it either since I comprehend what initial feelings evolved with Jean-Bernard and he may not be the only one.

Regarding the painting one has to admit, that my color refernce refers to the assignment when delivered by the ship yard.
Not sure what time period and place you chose for your model though.

I am pretty sure the Kriegsmarine used whatever paint they could get a hand on late in the war and far from the homeland. This is supported by the fact that logistics and money pretty much suffered as well.

The captured midget subs in a row on Wikipedia might just reflect various conditions by paying due to the time frame of commissioning.
I am not convinced the color shades are visual wise only related to a wet/dry surface.

For this, I may stress that to me your painting looks very nice and throughly done. It is just sort of heavily weathered but others milage may vary.
A shot of a medium gray filter might do the trick.
Also, maybe do a snap shot at daylight, if you do not mind the suggestion.

Jean-Bernard is right about the diorama layout.
The single worker at the midget sub is not related to the scene. If you want to keep the configuration I suggest to give that person some tools so it makes sense what he is doing there. A hammer and a small table with other tools might be a good starting point.

However, a very impressive and clean built and my honest respect you give the audience a chance to provide input.
Skayden
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Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - 02:54 AM UTC


Heh. The badge was one of my favorite parts of the whole setup. I think it adds a lot. I thought the extra thick base was good too due to the size of the model. Just shows that two people looking at the same thing will get entirely different impressions

MrMox
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Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - 05:53 AM UTC
Hi Dan, well i think being neighbour or living in germany makes you a bit sensitive - even today the history is felt and feeling arousen by these events. Which is why I for one is a bit in doubt if I wnat to include the badge - this can easily be a long and heated debate.


Quoted Text


The captured midget subs in a row on Wikipedia might just reflect various conditions by paying due to the time frame of commissioning.
I am not convinced the color shades are visual wise only related to a wet/dry surface.



If you look at the upper right corner you have propably noticed that the aft portion of the boats are below surface, so my guess is, that the lines and change of colour is because of the waterline - it even looks like the boats are submerged allmost to the front of the turrets, which would explain the difference in colour.

But in autum/winter 1944-45 i guess everything that would stick to the hull was used, if it was gray

Cheers/Jan
MrMox
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Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 10:19 PM UTC
After much consideration I have finish this build - I have cut down on the clutter and reduced the "fill" to 2 figures and a coil of rope, so that the boat still is the focal point.

Cheers/Jan



mj
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Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 05:47 AM UTC
Jan, I said it before, and I’ll say it again. That is a beautiful model. The weathering you did on it is superb, IMHO. And, while I liked the original layout you had for the diorama, I must admit, the simple elegance of the finished product is hard to argue with. Great job!


Cheers,
Mike

#027
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Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 06:02 AM UTC
Very nice work Jan.
ajkochev
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Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 06:50 AM UTC
It does look really good. In this case the simpler layout really does focus more on the sub. Good job!
Grumpyoldman
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Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 09:51 AM UTC
Turned out looking excellent Jan.
MrMox
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Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 08:21 PM UTC
Thanks guys - I have another of these boat laying around, think I will do a waterline edition

I can only reccomend this kit - its a easy build and it looks good out of the box.

Cheers/Jan
rokket2001
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Posted: Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 08:57 PM UTC
Cleaner, yet in a way more detail and interest. Coiled line is nice (can you tell us more about that)