| Subject: Correct Dunkelgelb |
 | Ryan Chambers
GibsonSG | Location: British Columbia, Canada
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| Posted: Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 05:32 PM UTC |
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I am using tamiya xf60 and I just dont like the look of it. I know that the exact colour is up for debate but I want to know what you use. I want to try something different. thanks |
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 | Joseph Zrodlowski
Headhunter506 | Location: New York, United States
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| Posted: Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 06:05 PM UTC |
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I use POLLY Scale Panzer Dark Yellow and Model Master Dunkelgelb 1943 acrylics; just my preference. Before anyone busts a blood vessel and sez that neither is the correct shade and blah, blah, blah, keep in mind that there is no correct shade. Hell, even the German paint manufacturers during that time period produced varying shades of good ole dunkelgelb. Check them out. Lighten or darken them to suit your taste. Just don't use mauve.  |
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 | russ amott
russamotto | Location: Utah, United States
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| Posted: Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 06:25 PM UTC |
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I also use the Pollyscale panzer yellow. I brush paint and it goes on well. I have used Pollyscale depot buff for a really faded look as it is just a tad lighter than the Tamiya. |
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| Ryan Chambers
GibsonSG | Location: British Columbia, Canada
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| Posted: Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 06:31 PM UTC |
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Lol thanks dude I wasn't really worried about acuracy so much as just a little different than what Tamiya san says is correct. are the MM acrylics the same colour as the enamels? I have used mm dunkelgelb in enamel but I just cant do enamels anymore (new baby and small house) I spray outside but mix and thin inside so I am acrylic only.
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 | Phil
Phil_H | Location: New South Wales, Australia
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| Posted: Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 10:47 PM UTC |
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Try mixing one part Tamiya XF-60 Dark Yellow + two parts XF-55 Deck Tan. This gives you a slightly lighter, slightly warmer tone, less green than straight XF-60. |
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| Joseph Zrodlowski
Headhunter506 | Location: New York, United States
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| Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 01:14 AM UTC |
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Quoted Text
Lol thanks dude I wasn't really worried about acuracy so much as just a little different than what Tamiya san says is correct. are the MM acrylics the same colour as the enamels? I have used mm dunkelgelb in enamel but I just cant do enamels anymore (new baby and small house) I spray outside but mix and thin inside so I am acrylic only.
Ryan, did anyone ever tell you that you look like Bernard Sumner, from New Order, in that pic?  Back on topic: They're almost identical, in my opinion; although, I've noticed that some lots of Acryl Panzer Dark Yellow tend to run a little more on the greener side. I mix in a bit of RLM 21 to lighten it up. |
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 | tat baqui
tatbaqui | Location: Luzon, Philippines
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| Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 01:26 AM UTC |
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Another thing to note is that Tamiya XF60 tends to be "greener" on top a of a model primed in black. Been using XF60 for all my dunkelgelb builds so I just add either buff or deck tan get that lighter shade. Oh and putting on Future darkens the shade as well. Cheers |
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| Gerald Owens
GeraldOwens | Location: Florida, United States
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| Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 01:47 PM UTC |
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Quoted Text
I am using tamiya xf60 and I just dont like the look of it. I know that the exact colour is up for debate but I want to know what you use. I want to try something different. thanks
Tomas Chory's book records several shades of Dunkelgelb from surviving artifacts he's collected. Some were greenish, some more tan. Dunkelgelb is a color which tends to photograph much lighter than the full size color chips would seem to suggest so don't take the color chips too literally (scale color, in other words). I don't lose too much sleep over it--once you've weathered the tank, the original shade isn't all that important, anyway. Personally, I like the old stand-by, Floquil Mud, as a starting point. |
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| Ryan Chambers
GibsonSG | Location: British Columbia, Canada
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| Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 11:12 PM UTC |
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Thanks for the input guys. I'm gonna try some of those out . the floquil mud sounds real good mostly because I just happen to have some. lol. I may even try successive coats of different but similar colours and see how that turns out. thanks again
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 | Dustin
Rom | Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 11:29 PM UTC |
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I use xf-60 mixed with Model Master acrylic 'sand' colour mixed to about 80/20. Lightens up the xf-60 nicely. |
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| tat baqui
tatbaqui | Location: Luzon, Philippines
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| Posted: Monday, October 19, 2009 - 01:36 AM UTC |
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Quoted Text
Thanks for the input guys. I'm gonna try some of those out . the floquil mud sounds real good mostly because I just happen to have some. lol. I may even try successive coats of different but similar colours and see how that turns out. thanks again
You may also want to try painting Acrylic XF60, heavily thinned with water over the Enamel XF60. More water = lighter shade. Apply it like a wash in some areas and you'll have varying shades of the base color. Or substitute acrylic thinner (which I think is same as alcohol), though the water-thinned one comes out with lighter shade. Good luck. Cheers |
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 | Bill Cross
bill_c
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| Posted: Monday, October 19, 2009 - 02:37 AM UTC |
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It's true the Tamiya DG goes on "greenish" over black undercoating, but it tans up nicely with a little bit of the MIG filters. You can also improve the color saturation with the MIG oils ("faded German ochre") or use the mini-dot oil method. |
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| wilburwright | Member Since: February 27, 2007
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| Posted: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 12:47 PM UTC |
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I also use Tamiya Dark Yellow lightened significantly with Deck Tan. One always has to remember the scale effect of color in 35th scale |
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 | Eddy Nevarez
Braille | Location: California, United States
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| Posted: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 02:50 PM UTC |
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Rayn, Since your in the market for trying something different . . . give this article a look - see. -Eddy  |
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| Ryan Chambers
GibsonSG | Location: British Columbia, Canada
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| Posted: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 08:32 PM UTC |
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That is a kick ass article . The clear yellow gives it the shade I'm looking for sooooo simple. Im gonna try the other stuff to. Thanks |
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 | Soeren
Gorizont | Location: Sachsen, Germany
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| Posted: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 09:06 PM UTC |
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Dunkelgelb is one of the RAL- colors. (RAL is one of the german color-standards) The color-number is: RAL 7028. I have no good "near" color seen by Revell, although they have some of the RAL-colors. Perhaps some other manufacturers have "exaxt" or nearly exact colors. A bit more confusion makes this color-table: http://www.afrikakorps.org/_photos/Color/DAKColor.jpgThere are 4 different versions of this color. Hope this helps. greetings... Soeren |
in progress:
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| Gerald Owens
GeraldOwens | Location: Florida, United States
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| Posted: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 09:19 PM UTC |
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Quoted Text
Rayn,
Since you're in the market for trying something different . . . give this article a look - see.
-Eddy
At the risk of being branded a curmudgeon, I took a look, and I'll pass. The finished model looks cool. It just doesn't look very real--at least not to me. There is such a thing as making the details "pop" too much. We went through all this before with Francois Verlinden 20 years ago. If a little of a technique is good, more must be better. With Verlinden, it was endless drybrushing. Now, it's endless glazes and washes (and paint chipping, lots and lots of paint chipping). Each technique has its place, but it must serve the end result--to simulate reality, not just make a pretty art object. If you want simple techniques that will leave you with models that look like miniatures of real life, buy Steven Zaloga's new book published by Osprey on finishing US armor (the techniques apply equally well to any subject). |
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 | Sebastian
Self-Propelled | Location: Bayern, Germany
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| Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 01:09 AM UTC |
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I think the focus of Color Modulation is a lot more on underlining smaller details so that none of the efforts the modeller took when assembling his tank or whatever are missed. That being said, It's really a lot more about making it look pretty and something the viewer wants to study thoroughly before turning away. It's all about preference, I find a CM style model much more fun to look at but like you said, it doesn't provide a look that is as realistic as can be achieved with a more traditional paint job and weathering. |
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| Joseph Zrodlowski
Headhunter506 | Location: New York, United States
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| Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 01:33 AM UTC |
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Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Rayn,
Since you're in the market for trying something different . . . give this article a look - see.
-Eddy
At the risk of being branded a curmudgeon, I took a look, and I'll pass. The finished model looks cool. It just doesn't look very real--at least not to me. There is such a thing as making the details "pop" too much.
We went through all this before with Francois Verlinden 20 years ago. If a little of a technique is good, more must be better. With Verlinden, it was endless drybrushing. Now, it's endless glazes and washes (and paint chipping, lots and lots of paint chipping). Each technique has its place, but it must serve the end result--to simulate reality, not just make a pretty art object.
If you want simple techniques that will leave you with models that look like miniatures of real life, buy Steven Zaloga's new book published by Osprey on finishing US armor (the techniques apply equally well to any subject).
QFT, Gerald. All of the overdetailing doesn't contribute to a realstic look. I wish MIG Productions much future success with its products; but, I dont see the need for buying something called "Oil and Grease Stains" or a multipart system to simulate mud on a vehicle. For oil stains, I simply use very diluted gloss black enamel with a smidgen (a technical term for minutely insignificant amount) of flat black. For mud, I use undiluted POLLY S Mud, Earth Brown, Earth Red and any other earth-tone colors. To give it some volume, I mix in Hudson and Allen Grass and/or ground cover; then, I apply the mess onto the areas which require the muck. I've used that technique for over thirty years and it suits me fine. Color Modulation? I don' need no stinkin' Color Modulation! I also knight thee Earl of Wilson, Duke of Ellington, Sir Loin of Beef.......... |
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| Bill Cross
bill_c
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| Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 04:05 AM UTC |
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Some modelers prefer ready-mixed colors, others like to do it themselves.
Some modelers like really eye-popping detailing to show, others want it more subtle.
The challenges of creating realistic detailing in a small scale have been alluded to here and in other places. I don't think there's one "standard" method, and I've seen good results from a variety of corners. |
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 | Robbin Francis
robbin | Location: Texas, United States
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| Posted: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 05:58 AM UTC |
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I don`t know if anyone said it but try adjusting your primer colors to different shades it can make a difference in the Tamiya 60 paint. I always go about 50/50 with white.Depending on the preshade you can a lot of variation.Plus I`ve never seen an "official color for Dunkel Gelb".Every one I`ve seen is different.Experimentation. |
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| Joseph Zrodlowski
Headhunter506 | Location: New York, United States
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| Posted: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 05:57 PM UTC |
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Take a look at these: Gaianotes Military Color http://www.gaianotes.com/products/gaia-color_military.html  German Africa Corps Tank "1941/1942" set  German Tank Camouflage 3 Color SetNotice that there are TWO shades of Dunkelgelb in the second set. Gaia also manufactures Oxidrot (8012) and Interior (Elfenbein RAL 1001). I just ordered eight (4 each) of the two available four bottle sets and 8 (4 Oxidrot, 4 Interior) bottle of the other two. I hate running out at inopportune moments. :G |
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