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REVIEW
Dragon T-34 Flakpanzer
Herchealer
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Indiana, United States
Joined: July 31, 2003
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Posted: Friday, April 02, 2010 - 04:25 PM UTC
Andy Renshaw reviews Cyberhobby's new T-34 Flakpanzer.

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If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
Finch
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Posted: Friday, April 02, 2010 - 04:44 PM UTC
Nice review. I am not much into German armor but I believe this was a one-of-a-kind conversion, so the single scheme provided in the instructions is the only one available.

I am not sure where the info comes from saying the turret could not traverse. I have no idea whether it could or not, but it seems almost pointless to build an air defense vehicle with a fixed weapons system.

The kit comes with spares for zavod 112 vehicles that are not needed for this kit if you need extras for converting some other kit.
justinm
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Posted: Friday, April 02, 2010 - 04:55 PM UTC
This kit is awesome. Whats the msrp?
c5flies
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Posted: Friday, April 02, 2010 - 07:01 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Whats the msrp?



A 'typical' retail price of $42.99 is listed in the review, with the MSRP a few bucks more ($46.99?). As always, try shopping around for the best price, if possible

Thanks for the review Andy, and thanks Jeremy for getting this one together!
exer
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Posted: Friday, April 02, 2010 - 11:51 PM UTC
Good review Andy. Just looking at the instruction sheet and the highlighted blue areas. Lots of stuff for the spares box.
casualmodeler
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Posted: Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 01:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Good review Andy. Just looking at the instruction sheet and the highlighted blue areas. Lots of stuff for the spares box.


You hit the nail there, Pat. I ordered two of these flakpanzer kits and imagine, how good start I got for my spare part box.. Its surely a nice kit for all german AA fans and for those, who are starting to collect spares box. Im thinking to make a "What if" scheme for one of my two kits.
skyhawk
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Posted: Monday, April 05, 2010 - 01:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Good review Andy. Just looking at the instruction sheet and the highlighted blue areas. Lots of stuff for the spares box.



Thanks Pat.....and showing all the extra parts is exactly why I scaned that first sheet. I thought it was crazy how much "blue" there was! T-34 fans would love this kit just to get the parts, then the Flakverling could be mounted on a truck, or used in some other conversion.
skyhawk
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Posted: Monday, April 05, 2010 - 01:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text


I am not sure where the info comes from saying the turret could not traverse. I have no idea whether it could or not, but it seems almost pointless to build an air defense vehicle with a fixed weapons system.



I think I pulled that from some online source after googleing flakpanzer T-34. There was several sites (and one in particualr) that has some good info on s.Pz.Jg.Abt 653 T-34 conversions. Now as obscure a subject this is, I also wonder the "origional " source and if its not a myth passed around untill somebody finds that one photo of a Flakpanzer T-34 with the "turret" turned. Seems that all the pics available have it fixed forward.

also I seem to recal somebody posting a picture with at least 2 of these in line ..so there may have been more than one converted.

thanks for the comments!
Andy
AikinutNY
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Posted: Monday, April 05, 2010 - 03:10 AM UTC
The History of the 653rd says that there were two T-34s converted one with the armor shield and one without. Logical if the turret was fixed like the Panzer IV turret on the Bergpanther it would be useless for AA use ontly against limited ground targets. So, I can't see the maintenance section wasting time on a second one if it could not traverse.
Finch
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Posted: Monday, April 05, 2010 - 11:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The History of the 653rd says that there were two T-34s converted one with the armor shield and one without. Logical if the turret was fixed like the Panzer IV turret on the Bergpanther it would be useless for AA use ontly against limited ground targets. So, I can't see the maintenance section wasting time on a second one if it could not traverse.



Right. Since the Flakvierling *already* had a full 360-degree travering mount, it would be easier to build this conversion retaining that mount than it would be to cobble together a suitable mount that did not traverse. A fixed turret would be completely useless as an air defense system.

I like the kit, but I'm going to pose it with the turret turned
alanmac
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Posted: Monday, April 05, 2010 - 12:43 PM UTC
Hi

the only pictures I know of this variant.

I to find it hard to believe the "turret" was fixed. If it was why create the gap that clearly exists between turret and T-34 chassis with its potential to get a stray shot coming through it. Surely that's there for clearance when the turret rotates. If not the armour would extend down to touch the chassis.

http://beute.narod.ru/Beutepanzer/su/t-34/t-34flak/t-34-flak.htm

Alan
BomberGunner
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Posted: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 12:34 AM UTC
Looks fantastic. As I'm trying to build all the different vehicles the sPA 653 used, I've come over all clammy.
Now if only I could find a supplier somewhere who has it in stock. Not at cyberhobby, hannants, great models, sprue bros. Anyone know of anywhere that stocks it?

Lucien
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Posted: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 02:15 AM UTC
Gents: One more Opinion on the nature of that Flak mount:

I think the kit and its instructions do include the mount turn-table base. And lots of good argument has been made above in terms of the whole mount being available at that field shop, so why not put the whole thing on as versus cobbling a partial mount... - Which sounds completely reasonable to me!

But, just for some "what-if" fun... Here's a wacky idea! First, let's admit we DON'T KNOW their actual intent for this vehicle - we ARE assuming that the Germans were thinking of using this as a FLAK gun or tank... (Not that I am saying in any way that anyone is wrong in this! ) So... Bear with (laugh OL, but gently!), please: The Germans had a long track-record of creating "assault guns" by lashing weapons onto any vehicle - with rather limited or even "nil" traverse. I offer for your amusement the thought that maybe the Germans created this thing as a sort of urban assault vehicle!

It is well-known that they used flak guns as infantry fire-support against ground targets- and the T-34 chassis was substantially agile enough for this to be effective in the "let's swamp those guys in a storm of lead (steel)" approach where a gun could be trotted up and used as a fire-hose against a building or emplacement. Precision aiming wouldn't be required in this suppression mode...

That silliness offered... That gap between the gun armour and the hull... Certes, if YOU were doing a field lash-on of this, wouldn't you find it a heck of a lot easier - and MUCH more stable (more robust weld-on), to simply "park" the add-on armour like a fixed casement on that hull? IF that mount was intended to be "fixed", I can see NO good reason for not doing this. I take that gap to be a pretty compelling argument for a traversable mount.

I would suggest also that pics taken of vehicles on road- such as forming up for or in convoy, etc., will almost always show guns trained fore-and-aft. It's been the way of armies around the world to travel thusly. (Putting aside those cases where a convoy flak vehicle MIGHT be trained out toward a presumed likely attacker... of course, predicting the direction enemy planes may actually attack from is fraught with risk...! ). Likewise for "shop", depot and factory yard pics. One could as reasonably argue from these pics that typical tanks actually came with fixed guns!

As to where you might buy that kit...

If you don't find it on any e-shelf at Squadron, SprueBro's, HobbyBuy, etc. (but there are many more e-sites to visit...), there is always EVILBAY! That, and I have seen at least one of these at each of the past 6 model shows I've been at... They are out there!

PS: This-all has peaked my interest in this one, too, so I'll be looking to spend more money I really shouldn't! It could be a really cool build!