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General Ship Modeling: Creating Ship Dioramas
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M.A.S. 568 4a Serie
alross2
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Posted: Friday, February 11, 2011 - 09:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Another question for you. The side vents on either side of the hull, were these bilge outlets of some sort? Also do you know what fittings would be attached to them on the inside.



If you mean the teardrop-shaped item above the second step, those are the exhaust outlets. Take a look at the engineroom cross section on page 4 and you'll see how they're hooked up to the motors.

Al
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, February 11, 2011 - 07:26 PM UTC


Right in front of my nose Al, couldn't see then for looking!

Al
AlanL
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Posted: Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 09:40 PM UTC
Hi folks,

not much done this week to full of the flu. Cut the missing aft hatch out.





and had some fun with the fuel tanks





Made a paper template for the foward engine room bulkhead



Al
alross2
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Posted: Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 01:51 AM UTC
You're having far too much fun, McNeilly...

Al
AlanL
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Posted: Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 05:48 AM UTC
Hi Al,

This was meant to be a nice simple OOB build , trouble is once the idea set in it took me off on a different track.

Hind sight is a geat thing and had I studied the plans you put up more fully I would probably have taken more care with the spacing of the ribs of the boat but to an extent that was goverened by bits of the kit already in existance and my having to start somewhere. Plan A, which I quickly dropped ,was to glue a cabin underneath and be done with it.

The good thing about this sort of project is that you learn a lot as you go and whilst I knew nothing about the MAS boat before I started I have a good deal of accumulated and growing knowledge about how the boat was put together and that makes the build even more enjoyable as it adds to ones understanding of how the crew would have lived and operated the boat. Also if I cock it up, well not much is going to show once the kit is joined up, so for me it's a win win situation either way as you get to try out stuff along the way and that can be fun.

Be a much longer built though and some of this may prove a useful learning experience when the Vosper comes along and when I finally get around to the ELCO Boat

Cheers

Alan
alross2
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Posted: Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 05:59 AM UTC
When you get to the ELCO, I have a pile of interior photos... Also have the original Vosper drawings for this series.


Al
AlanL
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Posted: Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 08:10 AM UTC
Hi Al,

Are those the plans you included for Allied Torpedo Boats By John Lambert and Les Brown?

I thought that was a particularly good reference for the Vosper and ELCO Boat.

Alan
alross2
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Posted: Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 08:34 AM UTC
No, the Vosper drawings in the book are John's. However, you can rely on them because he works directly from the originals, as do I. I have his stuff plus copies of the original Vosper drawings. Most, if not all, of the drawings were in our ALLIED COASTAL FORCES OF WORLD WAR II, vol. 2.

Al
AlanL
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Posted: Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 06:19 PM UTC
Hi Al,

Yes, you mentioned that one to me before but as yet I haven't been able to track down a reasonably priced copy, but I might come across one yet.

Thanks

Alan
AlanL
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Posted: Monday, February 14, 2011 - 06:37 AM UTC
Hi Al,

thanks for reminding me about the book, I managed to track down a copy that will make for interesting reading over the coming months.

Alan
AlanL
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Posted: Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 10:49 PM UTC
Greetings folks,

Well got a little more done on the interior, added the suport and bracing for the 20mm and cut of the forward engine room bulkhead

Next the rear engine room bulk head. Qeustion for Al, was the hatch in the rear bulkhead central, can't see where it should go on the plans. I need to fit the rear engine room bulkhead before I fix the fuel tanks, with the 20mm bracing in place room is tight, but of course my tanks may be a little big as they are just a best guess.

Al



alross2
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Posted: Monday, February 21, 2011 - 12:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Qeustion for Al, was the hatch in the rear bulkhead central, can't see where it should go on the plans.



Not quite sure I understand the question. There was no hatch in the bulkheads at either end of the fuel tank compartment. If you go to the drawing on page four, you can see the aft bulkhead almost up against the aft pair of tanks.

Al
AlanL
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Posted: Monday, February 21, 2011 - 01:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Qeustion for Al, was the hatch in the rear bulkhead central, can't see where it should go on the plans.



Not quite sure I understand the question. There was no hatch in the bulkheads at either end of the fuel tank compartment. If you go to the drawing on page four, you can see the aft bulkhead almost up against the aft pair of tanks.

Al



Ok, just mis-read the original post.

Thanks,

Alan
AlanL
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Posted: Monday, February 21, 2011 - 01:43 AM UTC
BTW, does anyone have any actual pictuers of the engine room? This would help a lot.

Thanks


Al
AlanL
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Posted: Monday, February 21, 2011 - 03:18 AM UTC
Hi folks,

Some more pics of the engine compartment. I made the rear fire wall and added two circular ports for the propeller shaft to go through. Cut this one a bit short so added a top section. Started work on the forward bulkhead, but from here on a lot will be guess work as to how things actually looked!.

Things actually seem to fit, even mu fuel tanks and the upper deck goes on which is also a plus lol. lo.

Al







Access I assuje was by ladded, any idea if these would just have been rungs and also if there would have been one at either end?
alross2
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Posted: Monday, February 21, 2011 - 04:38 AM UTC
I think there's a partial shot of the engineroom in MAS E MEZZI. Will check when I get home. I don't see an access ladder into the fuel tank compartment on the plans, but it seems like there should have been one. Given the orientation of the hatch and the inboard profile drawing, it might have been on the starboard side of the hatch opening. Will also look some more for that tonight.

Al
AlanL
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Posted: Monday, February 21, 2011 - 05:20 AM UTC
Thanks Al. The lack of pics make it hard to judge things, but anything from the internals will help.

Alan
alross2
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Posted: Monday, February 21, 2011 - 09:23 AM UTC
Couldn't find the ladder on any of the drawings. This is the only engineroom shot in the book and it is of a second series boat.



Al
AlanL
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Posted: Monday, February 21, 2011 - 09:56 AM UTC
Thanks Al, that will give me something to work with.

Alan
AlanL
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Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 04:55 AM UTC
Hi folks,

Well the DB605 engines arrived today. I'll clean up the parts and see what I've got to work with, timely post Al.

This should be fun

Al
AlanL
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Posted: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - 03:55 AM UTC
Light's a bit better today so a couple of quick pics of the engines.

Cleaned up



In the bag



Bought some beam to support them on



Al
pdgibson
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Posted: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - 05:23 AM UTC
Hello all,

My thanks for all the questions from everyone about the M.A.S. boats, particular thanks to Alan McNeilly for his work and in-process photos, and most special thanks to Dr. Al Ross for his answers to those questions and for the of drawings and photos he’s posted. All this information has been educational, inspirational, and will be invaluable – now that I have (finally) received my own kit.

One of the photos in the Italeri reference booklet shows a light machine gun mounted on the bridge just aft of the hatch. For anyone who would like to duplicate this, the machine gun looks like a Breda Model 30, or possibly a Breda 37. These were virtually identical, apart from caliber. The gun’s magazine folded sideways along the barrel for storage, and is shown folded in Italeri’s photo.

In any event, there are at least two sources for a 1/35th scale Breda Model 30. The best (by a considerable margin) is from the Model Victoria # 4012 “Italian Small Arms Set”. Along with the Breda MG, the set includes two each Mannlicher-Carcano rifles, two M-C carbines, a pair of Beretta sub-machine guns, and an ammo box for the Breda and a bi-pod.

DML offers a Breda 30 in two of their figure sets: # 6391 “Italian Infantry at El Alamein” and # 6563 “Fragile Alliance”. The DML gun isn’t as nicely done as the Model Victoria example, but it is certainly usable. The DML kits also include a Beretta SMG and Mannlicher-Carcano carbine – but no MG ammo box.

Now, to my question: Aside from the additional bridge-mounted machine gun, did M.A.S. crews further augment the torpedo boats’ armament with machine guns mounted elsewhere? I’m not asking about the gunboat conversions (for which Dr. Ross has provided drawings), but about up-gunned torpedo boats, specifically.


At least two photos in the Italeri booklet show the WW II Fasces emblem, as what seems to be a relief casting, on the side of the wheelhouse. In one of the photos, this appears to be painted the same color as the wheelhouse exterior (light gray or white), while another shows it as a darker color (possibly the color of the original casting?). Italeri did not see fit to provide this particular detail. Since Italian aircraft models include decal versions of the fasces, I don’t believe there is any political prohibition against the emblem (as there is with the Swastika, in some countries). For all I know, Italeri omitted this because it wasn’t present on either of the boats depicted by the kit decals. Can anyone shed some light about the installation of these emblems and what clues their presence (or absence) might offer about a particular boat’s history?

Thanks again,
Paul
AlanL
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Posted: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - 07:56 AM UTC
Hi Paul,

The picture on page 9 certainly gives you that option. Were there other MGs mounted, can't really say. Perhaps Al can help there.

I really like the finish on MAS 558, very funky.

Re the 'the WW II Fascist emblem' I don't see a problem with that, it's your model build/finish it how you like.

Alan
alross2
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Posted: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - 10:46 AM UTC
I looked through MAS E MEZZI and a couple other references and didn't see any photos showing additional mgs.

Al
pdgibson
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Posted: Friday, February 25, 2011 - 09:27 AM UTC
Thanks Alan.

It just dawned on me that Al Ross posted an enlarged photo of the wheelhouse showing the fasces emblem in excellent detail I may see what I can find for appropriately sized fasces decals and make up the underlying 3D shape from styrene sheet and sliced rod sections. I’m eager to see more photos of your build, when you have time.

Thanks again,
Paul