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General Ship Modeling: Creating Ship Dioramas
Topics on building dioramas are grouped here
M.A.S. 568 4a Serie
novorus
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Posted: Friday, March 04, 2011 - 06:47 AM UTC
Been following this one closely and every time need to pick myself off the floor for the amazement at you skills...
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, March 04, 2011 - 08:18 AM UTC
Hi James,

Glad you're enjoying it. Fortunately I had a lot of spare tank bits to make the reduction units with, especially as I needed two.

Well took the plunge and fitted the starboard engine. After gluing the base of the engines, I used the decking to help secure it down as the planks clamp over the running edge of the beam and the engine was secured beneith them at least if I've understood the plans correctly.

I'll finish the port engine tomorrow and then think about the additional piping need to come from the reduction unit once both have set firm.





This is as close as I can get it. 1/35 scale engines would have given a bit more room to play with.

Al
raalst
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Posted: Friday, March 04, 2011 - 10:18 AM UTC
Hi, do you know what type of engine the boat had ?
I have a photo of an "Asso M 1000 AD" engine of IsottaFraschini,
in a book called Caproni e il Mare by Achille Rastelli.
let me know if you can (still) use it.
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, March 04, 2011 - 10:25 AM UTC
Hi Ron,

The boat used the Italian Isotta-Fraschini petrol engine 345 hp..

I'd be interested in seeing the picture anyway, but it's toooo late to turn back now.

Al
alross2
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Posted: Friday, March 04, 2011 - 12:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi, do you know what type of engine the boat had ?



Two Isotta Fraschini ASM 183 @1150 hp

Al Ross
goldenpony
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Posted: Friday, March 04, 2011 - 01:49 PM UTC
Top notch build!!! I really like this one a good deal.

MrMox
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Posted: Friday, March 04, 2011 - 07:58 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks Jan,

Any thoughts on the interior decking? I was going to go for a wooden effect rather than white flooring.

Al



None whatsoever ... my knowledge of the italian navy is extremely limited.

My guess would be steel plating to make it more resistant to chemicals etc.

Sorry/Jan
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, March 04, 2011 - 08:48 PM UTC
Hi Jim,

Thanks, glad your enjoying it.

Jan,

You may be right but as it's a wooden boat I'll go for the planking.

To finish off the reduction unit I needed some where to run the pipes. The diagram shows at least one connecting to a circular tank (one on each side) which may well have sat vertically backed against the hull side. I opted to wall mount mine so to speak and also run one of the pipes to disappear under the flooring (always a good option )

Anyway without wanting to get to anal they seem to serve their purpose and look OK with the deck on. If I thought about it a bit more or a bit longer I would probably do them slightly differently but they will serve my needs for now.





Al
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, March 04, 2011 - 08:52 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hi, do you know what type of engine the boat had ?



Two Isotta Fraschini ASM 183 @1150 hp

Al Ross



Hi Al,

I thought they used the same engines as in the Vosper? Is the data in John Lambers book incorrect then or is this another way of saying the same thing?

Thanks

Alan
AlanL
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Posted: Saturday, March 05, 2011 - 01:42 AM UTC
Hi Guys,

Finished the port engine, the only thing I did differently was use lead wire rather than plastic rod for a couple of the pipes. Once the glue has dried I'll get it undercoated and maybe a first coat of paint this evening.





OK some final engine room questions if anyone can help. Was there any kind of hand bildge pump in the engine room I have a notion to make one? Also where were the engine room tools stored? Would there have been any piping or wiring running down the hull sides?

A man's work is never done

Thanks

Al
alross2
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Posted: Saturday, March 05, 2011 - 03:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I thought they used the same engines as in the Vosper? Is the data in John Lambers book incorrect then or is this another way of saying the same thing?



Been into the grog again, MacNeilly?? From which book did you get your info? John, unlike many writers on this subject, is very careful in his research and his written material is usually flawless.

I took a quick look through both ACF V2 and ALLIED TORPEDO BOATS and didn't see any 345 hp motors listed. I did see references to three IF motors of 3450 hp. The early 60' and some of the "narrow" 70' boats were initially fitted with IF motors. When supplies of the IF motors were curtailed because of WWII, 900 hp Hall-Scotts were substituted, followed by the Packard 4M2500s.

I don't think John identified the IFs by their model number, but the stated HP (1150) per engine is the same as the ASM 183 fitted to the 4th series MAS.

Al
AlanL
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Posted: Saturday, March 05, 2011 - 03:50 AM UTC
Hi Al,

I was skimming for a quick answer Page 7 bottom para. Page 18 mentions the IS 2300bhp, just didn't get that far .


Al
raalst
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Posted: Saturday, March 05, 2011 - 09:06 AM UTC
Short summary from the book I mentioned :
In 1930 Caproni became major stockholder of Isotta Fraschini.
IF supplied MTB engines for MAS1 and MAS2 (2x IF L556 of 225 Hp each)
Using IF engines Baglietto (an MTB building company) built all type 500 MTB's.
CRDA dockyard built MTB's to the german schnellboot design, but also with IF engines
MAS524 recorded 51.6 knots.
English MTB 1102 also was fitted with IF engines.

"In any case, the asso 500 and asso 1000, hundred of which were built for naval use in the ASM180(900hp) and ASM184/185(1500hp) versions, enjoyed a good export success" it then goes on to mention the countries and boats
fitted with them (USSR,Turkey,Japan,GB, Sweden).

about the GB boats it says that Vosper built the majority of MTB's as of 1935 onwards, MTB101 was fitted with three 1150hp asso L138, with which it attained 42 knots. MTB102, MTB 20 to 23, 29 and 30 were also equipped with the same engines. at start of war mtb 20,21 and 23 were sold to Romania, probably because maintenance became a problem.



alross2
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Posted: Saturday, March 05, 2011 - 11:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Using IF engines Baglietto (an MTB building company) built all type 500 MTB's.



This is inconsistent with I MAS E LE MOTOSILURANTI ITALIANE, which shows the 500 series boats built by a number of yards: Baglietto, Celli, Picchiotti, CNA, and CRDA.

What book is this?

Al Ross
AlanL
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Posted: Sunday, March 06, 2011 - 01:30 AM UTC
Hi folks,

Work on the second engine continues and I thought I'd addd some paint to the lower hull. The stepped hull is pretty cool and must have been quite an unusual design feature at that time. There are some PE parts to add to the hull and the smaller ones I've left off for now as internal work continues . In fact I would have been much better off not to have added the propellers when I did. Anyway that was done before I'd altered course.

Getting the correct water line wil take a few goes and if you spray paint this will be a big advantage, as with hand painting I always find some of the paint seeps through the tape no matter how hard you press ti on

Anyway some pics followed by a question.









Just Aft of the exhaust outlets is a small cover fitting. Anyone know what was on the other side and/or if a hole is needed there?

Al
raalst
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Posted: Sunday, March 06, 2011 - 02:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Using IF engines Baglietto (an MTB building company) built all type 500 MTB's.



This is inconsistent with I MAS E LE MOTOSILURANTI ITALIANE, which shows the 500 series boats built by a number of yards: Baglietto, Celli, Picchiotti, CNA, and CRDA.

What book is this?

Al Ross



a book called "Caproni e il Mare" by Achille Rastelli. rather obscure. My italian aunt had to pick it up in person.
http://www.museocaproni.it/book.asp

in this book, it is said the CRDA boats were of another design (based on the german schnellboot).



alross2
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Posted: Sunday, March 06, 2011 - 03:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Just Aft of the exhaust outlets is a small cover fitting. Anyone know what was on the other side and/or if a hole is needed there?



Given its location, this is probably the exhaust outlet for the auxilliary motor muffler. In this cropped photo, you can see a stream of water coming out of both this fitting and the main exhaust forward of it.

Exhaust systems on small craft are normally water-cooled.

Essentially, its a pipe coming out the side of the hull.

Al
AlanL
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Posted: Sunday, March 06, 2011 - 03:20 AM UTC
Thanks Al,

I'll drill a hole.

Alan
alross2
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Posted: Sunday, March 06, 2011 - 03:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

a book called "Caproni e il Mare" by Achille Rastelli. rather obscure. in this book, it is said the CRDA boats were of another design (based on the german schnellboot).



Interesting. I know Achille and that he works closely with Bagnasco, who wrote I MAS... I just sent him an email to find out more.

CRDA did build the "copies" of the former Jugoslavian boats (MS11-16, etc).

Al
AlanL
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Posted: Sunday, March 06, 2011 - 05:16 AM UTC
Hi folks,

Just to remind myself of where I need to be going some pics of the 'other bits'









Then back inside. :









Al
alross2
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Posted: Sunday, March 06, 2011 - 09:56 AM UTC
Achille wrote back and agrees that the boats were built in a number of yards to Baglietto's design.

Al
ridders
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Posted: Monday, March 07, 2011 - 11:09 AM UTC
new to site, been following your build, superb, i'v got to get around to build r/c version.
RedDuster
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Posted: Monday, March 07, 2011 - 08:57 PM UTC
Looking really good Al,

The internal detail is brilliant

SI
AlanL
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Posted: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 - 04:39 AM UTC
Hi Simon and Thomas,

thanks for looking in guys and glad you're enjoying the build.

Got the plumbing in and the engine room build more or less complete. Added a small sledge hammer which I though might be appropriate and will think about a few additional items to add.

Put the bulkhead for the Larazette in might add a small table and vice (for Al ), just so he know's it's there!!!

Started work on the crew compartment and I have a couple of rifles from the figuers that came with the 20mm so I'll add thr rifle rack as well.

BTW, how many crew were there on these boats? Meant to ask that earlier.

OK so here's where we're at now.













Alan
TAFFY3
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Posted: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 - 10:01 AM UTC
Hello Alan, really impressive work on the engine room, it looks terrific. I was looking at a close up of the stern gun mount on a build posted on a different site. It got me to wondering about the two pieces that curve forward above the gun. I think they are for firing the gun at high angles and it looks to me that the projections spaced along the tops of those pieces might be firing buttons. Do you, or anyone else, know if my reasoning is correct? Al