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Topics on all types of carriers from the early 20th century to today.
Hosted by Todd Michalak
USS Intrepid CV11 1944 -1/350 Scale
RedDuster
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Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2018 - 08:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Once it gets over 28 degrees inside (Usually by that point it's 40 outside) I step away from the bench, Si.

Hands get too sweaty and the optivisor slips of the forehead




Same problem with my glasses. The current warm patch seems to be over, back to the mid 20's this weekend.


Might even be able to get the windy stick out.


Thanks for looking in.

Cheers

Si
RussellE
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Posted: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 - 09:32 AM UTC
Once it gets over 28 degrees inside (Usually by that point it's 40 outside) I step away from the bench, Si.

Hands get too sweaty and the optivisor slips of the forehead
RedDuster
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Posted: Monday, August 06, 2018 - 08:43 AM UTC
Very small update,

Too hot (I know the temperatures we have in London are normal for a lot of you on here, but not for us lot.) in my workshop to do much.

Hellcat repainted.



Bit more done on the structure under the bow.



a couple of stern supports built.



Hopefully a better update soon.

Cheers

Si
RedDuster
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Posted: Monday, July 30, 2018 - 06:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Great work so far, Si! I'll be watching with interest (hopefully a bit more now than the last few years...). Keep 'em coming!

Cheers!
Stefan



Thanks Stefan,

Glad to have you look in .

Cheers

Si
RedDuster
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Posted: Monday, July 30, 2018 - 06:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Simon the F6F3N and F6F5N both had radar pods mounted forward on the right wing, out near the tip of that wing. Both models were painted overall dark blue.

As far as I can tell the 5P had no external differences from the standard F6F5.

You did not see many Corsairs on US carriers until 1945 when we finally learned how to land them based upon Fleet Air Arm experience. What proved a pain in the butt for the Navy was an absolute blessing for the Marines, They loved the Corsairs, and it was the Corsair that allowed the Marines to fully mature their close air support doctrine.




Thanks Chuck,

The pods for the NF's will be easy enough to replicate. The actual Radome on it was black if I remember correctly.

Appreciate all the info mate.

Cheers

Si
Dangeroo
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Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2018 - 08:02 AM UTC
Great work so far, Si! I'll be watching with interest (hopefully a bit more now than the last few years...). Keep 'em coming!

Cheers!
Stefan
Quincannon
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Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2018 - 07:24 AM UTC
Simon the F6F3N and F6F5N both had radar pods mounted forward on the right wing, out near the tip of that wing. Both models were painted overall dark blue.

As far as I can tell the 5P had no external differences from the standard F6F5.

You did not see many Corsairs on US carriers until 1945 when we finally learned how to land them based upon Fleet Air Arm experience. What proved a pain in the butt for the Navy was an absolute blessing for the Marines, They loved the Corsairs, and it was the Corsair that allowed the Marines to fully mature their close air support doctrine.
RedDuster
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Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2018 - 06:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Simon: VF 18 also had 2 F6F5P's as well for photo recon work as well as the others. This slipped my notice the first time through.



Thanks Chuck,

I would think in 1/350 there would be little in the way of noticeable external differences, do you happen to know of any differences in colour scheme.

Cheers

Si
Quincannon
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Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2018 - 02:25 AM UTC
Simon: VF 18 also had 2 F6F5P's as well for photo recon work as well as the others. This slipped my notice the first time through.
RedDuster
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Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 - 09:10 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Nice work overall!




Thanks for Looking in Mardis,

Appreciate your kind comment.


Cheers

Si
RedDuster
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Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 - 08:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Simon:

The Intrepid Air Group for Leyte in October 1944 was Air Group 18 and it was equipped as follows:

VF18 - 36 F6F's + 5 F6F5N's

VB 18 - 28 SB2C's

VT 18 - 18 TBM's

Those sixty some F4U do not come into the picture until January 1945 when Intrepid swapped Air Group 18 for Air Group 10, whi had VF10 with thirty Corsairs and six Hellcats, and VBF 10 with 36 Corsairs, VB 10 had 15 SB2C's and VY 10 had 10 TBM's




Thanks Chuck.


AOTS os wrong then, not a problem, respray the Hellcats, and forget the Corsairs then.

She is going to be a bit light on aircraft, I have some time, and I hope at Telford I may be able to source some more Trumpeter Hellcats and Avengers. I don't like mixing aircraft from different Manufacturers on the same Deck, they never quite look right.

Thanks for the Chuck, and all the other guys.

Cheers

Si
gtb-red
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Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 - 05:53 AM UTC
Nice work overall!
Quincannon
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Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 - 05:23 AM UTC
Forgot to mention that there is a photo of Intrepid taken in October 44 with a deck full of Hellcats all in the overall blue color scheme, and the flight deck is marked with the distinctive Intrepid 11 of black with yellow border.
Quincannon
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Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 - 05:05 AM UTC
Simon:

The Intrepid Air Group for Leyte in October 1944 was Air Group 18 and it was equipped as follows:

VF18 - 36 F6F's + 5 F6F5N's

VB 18 - 28 SB2C's

VT 18 - 18 TBM's

Those sixty some F4U do not come into the picture until January 1945 when Intrepid swapped Air Group 18 for Air Group 10, whi had VF10 with thirty Corsairs and six Hellcats, and VBF 10 with 36 Corsairs, VB 10 had 15 SB2C's and VY 10 had 10 TBM's
RedDuster
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Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 - 02:59 AM UTC
Hi Guys,

I am not going to try answer all the questions in one go, I am bit hamstrung, as I have lent my copy of the Anatomy of Ship on the Intrepid to a mate till next week.

The being depicted in October '44, Leyte gulf, The actual airwing won't be 100% in make up, because I couldn't lay my hands on enough corsairs.so there will be a few extra Hellcats and Helldivers, but they will be hiding in the Hanger.


From memory AOTS givers her


12 Helldivers
12 Avengers
18 Hellcats

and the rest, I have 60 in my head, Corsairs.

The Helldivers being on board at that time are well documented, she launched eight Helldivers against the Musashi on 24/10/44, amongst other aircraft.


On the colours for the aircraft, apart from what in AOTS, which isn't much, I have trawled the web, and there are a fair pictures of carriers with aircarft if both 3 tome and overall sea blue. on deck, I made, obviously, the wrong assumption, that this was not unusual at a time of transition of colour scheme. The Helldivers were I am reasonably confident overall sea blue. The rest of the airwing not sure, I have assumed, the Corsairs being newer to carriers would be the same, and kept the Hellcats & Heldivers in the older Schemre.

If I am wrong, I can repaint the hellcats overall Sea Blue, not a problem.

Thaks for looking in and al, the advise.

Cheers

Si
Quincannon
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Posted: Friday, July 27, 2018 - 04:19 AM UTC
I am not at all sure that opening a can of worms is the correct phrase. More like striving for excellence in all things would be the correct term, indicating that Simon desires that his Intrepid is the best and most accurate it can be.

Building a model is in someways like reading a history book. When reading, you find that the author has messed up on some of the things you know, it makes you wonder how many of the things he has written about that you do not know, that he has messed up at well.

One thing for sure though, with all the work put into this Intrepid so far, especially the PE work, this one will be a winner, and example of what can be done with a plastic kit.
Cosimodo
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Posted: Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 07:40 PM UTC
Planes looking good so far. Seems you have opened a can of worms with the paint scheme but I will interested to see where you land with them.

cheers
Michael
Cadeus
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Posted: Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 12:45 PM UTC
Coming along Si, sorry Ive not kept up with the build of late, I was going to post Picts of my progress of the independence but lost my SD card reader and all the pictures with it. Have to take new ones. Im still around, have three ships in the dock, the independence, tamiya prince of Wales with pontos being built as the King George V, and dragons Z38 destroyer. Have a lot to keep me busy for the time being. Keep sailing along Si
Quincannon
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Posted: Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 04:52 AM UTC
Russ: I agree with what you said above, but looking at the build itself the two 40mm quad mounts on the starboard stern quarter are mounted on the hanger deck level, and Intrepid had those mounts changed, mounted on sponsons at relatively the same locations in the March 1944 refit to increase the arc of fire.

Assuming again I am correct about the time frame, Intrepid would be camouflaged in Measure 22 overall Navy Blue. In mid 1944 she would be repainted in Measure 32/3A, and again in December 1944 into Measure 12.

The question of flight deck numbers always comes up as to when they were applied. I do not believe that Intrepid carried any numbers until about June of 44, although I have no flight deck photos of her while in Measure 22 to verify this. In 1944 when she received her Measure 32/3A flight deck numbers were present, which were black, outlined in yellow. Only Bunker Hill used this same method, while all of the others used just black numerals.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 04:21 AM UTC
Given the information above, If its 1943, all the Squadron 6 aircraft would have been in the three tone camo, and there wouldnt have been any SB2Cs, they would have had SBDs. So given the aircraft you have on hand, it would put the time frame sometime in late 44 or early 1945, which means all the aircraft would be overall glossy sea blue.
VR, Russ
Quincannon
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Posted: Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 04:15 AM UTC
Looking back through the build thread, and closely examining the photos it appears that you have chosen to depict Intrepid between the time she was commissioned in August of 43 until after her first combat action in March 1944, after which she had a refit which added more 40mm quads among other things. If I am correct and that time period was your intention the following aircraft were carried.

Air Group 6

Fighting 6 (VF) - 37 F6F's
Bombing 6 (VB) - 36 SBD's
Torpedo 6 (VT) - 19 TBF/TBM

In February 1944 Intrepid picked up a detachment of F4U's night fighters, numbering only 4 aircraft from VF(N) 101

I should add not knowing if you are all that familiar with USN aircraft that the TBF and the TBM were essentially the same aircraft, the TBM being built by the Eastern Aircraft division of General Motors.

It appears from the tables I am using that no SB2C's were aboard Intrepid until October 1944 when they came aboard as the equipment for VB18. I want to hedge my bets a little here because VB 19 was aboard from June to Oct 44 and my tables do not list what this squadron was equipped with.

Corsairs were absent from Intrepid except as noted above until VBF 10 came aboard in January 1945 with 36 aircraft, At the same time the number of SB2C's was reduced to 15 aircraft in VB10. The Corsair was a very versatile aircraft, a better fighter than the Hellcat, and a ground attack aircraft with no peer.
brekinapez
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Posted: Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 02:40 AM UTC
Yes, the dark blue does need to be lower; I just built a 1/32 Hellcat recently depicting a 1943 scheme.
Quincannon
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Posted: Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 02:32 AM UTC
What year are you depicting Intrepid? Therein lies the answer to the aircraft colors.

43 and 44 aircraft will be in camouflage usually three tone, similar to what you have your Hellcat in, although I believe Mark is correct, the dark blue should come down a little lower on the fuselage. By 45 all the aircraft were overall glossy dark blue, and each of them had a geometric tail insignia, identifying the carrier. National insignia changed a couple of times during that period as well.

You should also note that Helldivers were the red headed step child of the naval air arm. They got their derogatory nicknames honestly, and many of the carrier captains did not want them anywhere near their ships. So in 43 and 44 you still saw a lot of SBD hanging around carrier decks, with no a Helldivers until they were forced upon the aviation community. After the war the Navy got rid of the SB2C as fast as AD's could be produced.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 02:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Last weekend was about the aircraft.

Another batch of corsairs added, and base colour on, I am not 100% about this, but I think the Hellcats and Avengers were 3 tone and the Helldivers and Corsairs were all blue..






Ready for canopies and props



now ready for decals, with outer wing panels sprayed.





Cheers

Si



Simon, Air wings were generally replaced in their entirety, so as a rule of thumb, the aircraft would probably have appeared all in the same colors. Another rule of thumb is the three tone camouflage of dark non-specular blue, intermediate blue and white would have appeared in very late 1942 and have been seen into early 1945 in most air wings. The glossy overall sea blue would have appeared in late 1944 and been seen until the end of the war in most air wings. Tracy White probably has the exact dates. Unless you have exact evidence, you might reconsider mixing the two schemes up. You might re-check the exact period you are trying to depict for the air wings.
VR, Russ
d6mst0
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Posted: Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 12:01 AM UTC
SI,

I seen war photos of them just in the dark blue, dark blue upper and powder blue lower, and three colors of dark blue upper, powder blue, and a very light powder blue almost white.

The dark blue on your one plane should come down farther. Every photo I seen shows the dark blue comes all the down to propeller spinner, follow by a thin powder blue with a light powder blue.

Mark