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World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
Midway Movie
padawan_82
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 02:13 AM UTC
Just seen the trailer to the new Midway movie and was blown away by it, yes the film is going to be CGI heavy but considering most of the ships and a lot of the aircraft just aren't available anymore it still looks amazing. Even the Pearl Harbour sequence and the Doolittle Raid looked more accurate than in Michael Bay's Pearl Harbour which I was a fan of especially the director's cut, but I've seen some negative comments online about the flying sequences comments saying the Dauntless in the trailer pulls off a maneuver that no real plane could do, so my question is to the aviation experts on here has anyone else seen the trailer and can say who's correct are the maneuvers accurate or is it a case of over use of CGI to make a pop corn movie over the Historical accuracy of the events of the real battle. Because a lot of the critics were saying they still preferred the original Midway film, which I love, but I'd like to reserve judgment until I've seen the new film.
padawan_82
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 02:17 AM UTC
Opps looks like I've posted this wrong I'm not submitting a campaign proposal sorry about that been a while since I'd posted on here I'd appreciate if a moderator could amend this to a WW2 topic thanks Ant
Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 02:58 AM UTC
I've seen the trailer. And I'm not impressed by the aircraft CGI effects. The aircraft themselves look good, but as you've said, the dive sequence and recovery would rip the wings off the real SBD. To me-- it's as you've said-- another "popcorn" movie designed for those who want to be entertained rather than an authentic depiction. But, I don't think we should be too hard on it until the actual movie comes out-- you really can't tell how bad or how good a movie is from a 60 second trailer.
VR, Russ
brekinapez
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 05:24 AM UTC
I have seen enough Roland Emmerich films to know I wouldn't even bothering torrenting it.
Redhand
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 05:36 AM UTC
Except for "Twelve O'Clock High," "The Bridges at Toko-Ri" and possibly one or two others, ("Battle of Britain") Hollywood is simply incapable of making a realistic, technically accurate film about any element of WWII aviation.
padawan_82
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 05:49 AM UTC
I agree I liked tuskagee airmen with Laurence Fishbourne, but wasn't impressed with Red Tails again some of the CGI in that film went OTT yes the P-51 was a superb fighter plane but going one on one with Me 262 no way, all accounts have stated the only time they shot 262's down was when they were landing to refuel not one on one in a fog fight. Too many film makers romanticise or take artist licence to get bums on seats, which is a shame same goes for Memphis Belle loved the film gives you insight as to what the USAFF bomber crews were up against but they used the Belle's name to tell a fictional story not the real story of the Belle's final mission.
Tojo72
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 06:37 AM UTC
What's the harm,I'll watch almost anything,(except Pearl Harbor),it's just a movie,entertainment and fun,not a history lesson.
U-mark
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 09:12 AM UTC
Don't forget Tora,Tora,Tora which is one of the more historically accurate movies ever made. With real aircraft, albeit some were conversions but they all looked the part. If you've never seen it, it's worth a watch.
brekinapez
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 10:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

What's the harm,I'll watch almost anything,(except Pearl Harbor),it's just a movie,entertainment and fun,not a history lesson.



Some kids view it as a history lesson because they still cling to the notion that the media doesn't alter anything if it really happened. As a teacher, I have had to dispel numerous misconceptions of history and science perpetrated by Hollywood.
Bigrip74
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 10:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

What's the harm,I'll watch almost anything,(except Pearl Harbor),it's just a movie,entertainment and fun,not a history lesson.



"DITTO"
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 11:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Except for "Twelve O'Clock High," "The Bridges at Toko-Ri" and possibly one or two others, ("Battle of Britain") Hollywood is simply incapable of making a realistic, technically accurate film about any element of WWII aviation.



Not to go "off topic", but...

Hollywood doesn't seem to get ANYTHING right, historically speaking, nor can they depict any other "PROPER" aspect of combat during WWII, for that matter.

"Schindler's List" was OK, but Spielberg's "representation" of the NAZI SS was, if anything, a bit too mild as far as "reality" was concerned...

If my Dad were still among the living today, he could set A LOT of people "straight", when discussing NAZI Concentration Camp personnel...
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 11:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Don't forget Tora,Tora,Tora which is one of the more historically accurate movies ever made. With real aircraft, albeit some were conversions but they all looked the part. If you've never seen it, it's worth a watch.



"PEARL HARBOR", the 2001 edition, CAN IN NO WAY compare to "TORA, TORA, TORA"... "TORA, TORA, TORA" STILL, after all these years, has "PEARL HARBOR" beaten by MILES...
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 11:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I've seen the trailer. And I'm not impressed by the aircraft CGI effects. The aircraft themselves look good, but as you've said, the dive sequence and recovery would rip the wings off the real SBD. To me-- it's as you've said-- another "popcorn" movie designed for those who want to be entertained rather than an authentic depiction. But, I don't think we should be too hard on it until the actual movie comes out-- you really can't tell how bad or how good a movie is from a 60 second trailer.
VR, Russ



IMO, judging from the few minutes of the "trailers" I've seen, the new FICTIONALIZED "MIDWAY" movie isn't going to do ANY of the brave men, Americans AND Japanese, any justice, at all...

But one needs to realize that "artistic license" is what sells, not facts or accuracy...
Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 12:24 PM UTC
IMHO, the four “best” WWII movies for accurate depictions of “how it was” (not necessarily plot line) were:
1) Saving Private Ryan
2) The “Dambusters”
3) The Battle of Britain
4) Twelve O’clock High

I have some runners up too:
1) Is Paris Burning
2) Das Boot
3) Eastwood’s two Iwo Jima Movies: Letters from Iwo Jima and Flags of our Fathers.
4) The Latest Dunkirk fictional movie isn’t bad either.
Everything else is woefully inaccurate for me. I guess studying too much history really can wreck your outlook on life. My wife hates going to war movies with me because of my carping about accuracy. One movie I’d like to see is the new WWI movie “1917” based on a true story.
VR, Russ
padawan_82
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 01:00 PM UTC
I have to agree tora tora tora is a favourite of mine, and the pearl harbor sequences were so good some shots were reused in Ike. Bay's pearl harbor should've ditched the whole love story and gone for a remake of tora tora tora I cringe when I see those modern day us destroyers being hit CGI models or good old fashioned miniatures would have done ala Sink the Bismarck. Now that's a good movie slightly dramatised with fictional characters but the essence of the story is their Mission of the Shark was another good film Stacey Keach's portrayal of Captain McVay was much better than Nicholas Cage.
brekinapez
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 02:49 PM UTC
There is at least one Pearl Harbor fan edit somewhere out in the internet that has the romantic story line removed from the film. Probably a couple since I saw it years ago. It does cull the movie length way down but it pretty much sticks to the military events; the stuff the servicemen experienced that day at the scene. I wish they could edit out the coward Alec Baldwin, who once promised to leave the U.S. if Trump became president and unsurprisingly did not do so, as many others like him did. No, Alec, you don't get to be in a movie about heroes and pull a punk stunt like that. I rebuke him.

And Cuba. What the hell happened? That guy has not had a decent break since he won his Oscar. I don't know what Bruckheimer was going for here.
chris1
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Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 09:02 PM UTC
Hi All
Saw an interesting Youtube break down of the trailer apparently the Japanese aircraft in this should be Green rather than white,
only the torpedo bombers were green I'm no expert so I'll take this on face value
However with the Zero on a strafing run as shown in the trailer ,the wingspan on the plane must be far less that its 39 feet as it would be hard pressed to fit between the trees lining the road. But hey it has a Jonas brother in it.

I'll probably wait for the DVD.
MichaelSatin
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AEROSCALE
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Posted: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 - 03:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi All
Saw an interesting Youtube break down of the trailer apparently the Japanese aircraft in this should be Green rather than white,
only the torpedo bombers were green I'm no expert so I'll take this on face value
However with the Zero on a strafing run as shown in the trailer ,the wingspan on the plane must be far less that its 39 feet as it would be hard pressed to fit between the trees lining the road. But hey it has a Jonas brother in it.

I'll probably wait for the DVD.



I think at Midway the Kates would be green, but the Zekes and Vals would be overall gray.

I agree that the trailer worries me, but it also doesn't look like there's going to be quite as much romantic fluff in it as Pearl Harbor or even the first Midway movie. Guess we'll just have to wait and see...

Michael
weesiep
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Posted: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 - 08:14 AM UTC
Of course it will come nowhere near to accurate. I do feel from seeing the trailer quite a lot of effort was put in creating the visuals. Not an expert on Any of it but it looked quite impressive to me. I will go and see it.

If a plane makes a move that is impossible, is it that bad? They were dive bombers, why not add a touch of drama. Everybody understands they didn’t actually move like that.

SPR started realistic but the end fight was a Joke as well.

Expectations, just tune em to the correct level and go see and enjoy it. Or don’t!
brekinapez
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Posted: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 - 08:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Everybody understands they didn’t actually move like that.



Actually, not everyone does. Young people who have no experience with this subject do not. I have on multiple occasions had to correct wrong impressions my students got from stuff like "Red Tails".

Remember, most kids now don't even recognize a busy signal on a phone.
Naseby
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Posted: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 - 08:54 AM UTC
Pros :
-Liberals have not yet pushed war movies out from cinemas
-Midway will be back on the radar of public iterest atleas for a few months, with new books and maybe even kits
-Prices of WW2 USN militaria will increase (Again)

Cons:
-Cheap CGI, it fells like World Of Warships
-Unrealistic battle scenes
-Low licket sales will lead to war movies being out of business scope for a while
-Prices of WW2 USN militaria will increase (Again)

Also where is the japanese side ? Old Midway with Heston looked better..


M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 - 10:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hi All
Saw an interesting Youtube break down of the trailer apparently the Japanese aircraft in this should be Green rather than white,
only the torpedo bombers were green I'm no expert so I'll take this on face value
However with the Zero on a strafing run as shown in the trailer ,the wingspan on the plane must be far less that its 39 feet as it would be hard pressed to fit between the trees lining the road. But hey it has a Jonas brother in it.

I'll probably wait for the DVD.



I think at Midway the Kates would be green, but the Zekes and Vals would be overall gray.

I agree that the trailer worries me, but it also doesn't look like there's going to be quite as much romantic fluff in it as Pearl Harbor or even the first Midway movie. Guess we'll just have to wait and see...

Michael



The Japanese D3A-1 "Vals" at BOTH Pearl Harbor AND Midway were painted in a variety of color schemes, not just overall IJN "Ame Iro" or IJN Green over IJN "Ame Iro"- "Ame Iro", translated into English means roughly "caramel-colored". The A6M-2 "Zeroes" were painted "Ame Iro" overall at Pearl Harbor, Coral Sea, Midway, the Port Moresby campaign, China, Gloucester, and right up to when the A6M-3 was introduced at Rabaul & the Solomons (Guadalcanal) campaign. Some A6M-2s even received IJN Green camouflage on their upper surfaces after the Midway battle, and many A6M-3s were already camouflaged in the IJN Green over "Ame-Iro" fresh from their factories of origin, i.e, Mitsubishi and Nakajima...

B6N-1 and N-2 "Kates" were also seen in various camo-guises from Pearl Harbor, onwards- (see D3A1 "Val")

If any of you might be confused, the easiest way to figure out the various Japanese Imperial Navy's aeronautical camo-schemes would be to refer to the new VALIANT Wings Publishing Ltd Extra No.10 book, "The Battle of Midway, 4th to 7th June 1942" by,

Patrick Branley- Historical content
Richard J. Caruana- Profiles
Steve Evans- Models
Libor Jekl- Models

US Navy and US Marine Corps Aircraft are also covered, and all models are very nice as completed...

All in all, it's a very nice publication, and the book is jam-packed with illustrations and photos of the various "builds" both in-process and at the time of their completion...

Well worth the money!!!
brekinapez
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Posted: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 - 11:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Pros :
-Liberals have not yet pushed war movies out from cinemas



Movie is textbook example of toxic masculinity.



Quoted Text

-Midway will be back on the radar of public iterest atleas for a few months, with new books and maybe even kits



There is that.


Quoted Text

-Prices of WW2 USN militaria will increase (Again)



Great if you already own some. For other people, not so much.


Quoted Text

Cons:
-Cheap CGI, it fells like World Of Warships



I've actually watched some Youtube streams that looked better in some spots.


Quoted Text

-Unrealistic battle scenes



Hollywood loves everything squashed into a single shot so there is constant BOOM BOOM POW KABOOM coming at the audience.


Quoted Text

-Low licket sales will lead to war movies being out of business scope for a while



Naw, we'll just have the female Avengers and Resistance fight all our wars off-planet (Can't have guns on Earth anymore, you know).


Quoted Text

-Prices of WW2 USN militaria will increase (Again)



Are you saying there will be TWO increases?


Quoted Text

Also where is the japanese side ? Old Midway with Heston looked better..




Conservative modern Japanese societal norms don't test well with America's NPC demographic, so it was decided to take them out of the story and instead hinge the plot around a romantic triangle that would be Top Gun meets Brokeback Mountain, which would do amazing numbers among the Alphabet community.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 - 08:34 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Pros :
-Liberals have not yet pushed war movies out from cinemas



Movie is textbook example of toxic masculinity.



Quoted Text

-Midway will be back on the radar of public iterest atleas for a few months, with new books and maybe even kits



There is that.


Quoted Text

-Prices of WW2 USN militaria will increase (Again)



Great if you already own some. For other people, not so much.


Quoted Text

Cons:
-Cheap CGI, it fells like World Of Warships



I've actually watched some Youtube streams that looked better in some spots.


Quoted Text

-Unrealistic battle scenes



Hollywood loves everything squashed into a single shot so there is constant BOOM BOOM POW KABOOM coming at the audience.


Quoted Text

-Low licket sales will lead to war movies being out of business scope for a while



Naw, we'll just have the female Avengers and Resistance fight all our wars off-planet (Can't have guns on Earth anymore, you know).


Quoted Text

-Prices of WW2 USN militaria will increase (Again)



Are you saying there will be TWO increases?


Quoted Text

Also where is the japanese side ? Old Midway with Heston looked better..




Conservative modern Japanese societal norms don't test well with America's NPC demographic, so it was decided to take them out of the story and instead hinge the plot around a romantic triangle that would be Top Gun meets Brokeback Mountain, which would do amazing numbers among the Alphabet community.



As for myself, I'm not going to waste any of my time on this "thing". I can look at my own 1/48 scale MIDWAY Aircraft-display and imagine a much better movie...

"Alphabet Community"- That's pretty good!
basco
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Posted: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 - 10:32 PM UTC
Oh I just hope it's not going to be a dreadful PEARL HARBOR like thing or the last third of Brad Pitt's tank movie. DUNKIRK was fantastic.