Hi folks,

Just a thought.

There is always a great cry for 'Post you PIcs'.

Over the weekend I posted 30 odd pics on the ongoing development work on the Lighthouse build for Pier 51.

4 People took the trouble to respond.

As my sole purpose in posting is for feedback and ideas. I have to ask myself was it even worth the effort?

Thanks Kenny, jba, Murdo and Frank for the support and encouraging the build.

For those who looked but didn't speak, hope you enjoy the pics but spare a thought for the time and effort folks put into showing their work. I takes them much longer to photograph it, upload it and then post it here than it does for you to make a comment!!

I'd thought about giving up posting stuff before and this pretty much confirms my thoughts, 'Why bother' ????

Al

I agree.

I spent 2 1/2 precious modelling hours last Saturday doing a write up with pics in a post on the brand new 1/72 Airfix RNLI Severn Class Lifeboat and got one reply. (Thanks Kenny).

However, in fairness, I must say that two others (Barv and Erik67) commented favourably about it later on MSN.

I must admit Alan that the scope and breadth of your work leaves me with little to say but or or or something else totaly unsuitable.

Live long and prosper mate.... And keep posting! Yer stuff is totally

Equally, it's worth remebering the time that people spend on original work for the site (Reviews, Features etc.) and the lack of response to these as well...

Trust me, I feel your frustration. Too much of a 'passive' rather than 'particpative' audience perhaps?

Al I must admit I don’t believe I’ve commented much about your lighthouse. The reason being I have little to say other then fantastic job or something similar.
It truly it a great piece of work as far as I can tell but with others already saying such I fell that my comments really wouldn’t help you much and would probably start getting annoying.
I imagine other people feel the same.

Plus there will always be more people looking then replying. we recently had a discussion at my hunting club that would probably fit here as well. With over 250members there’s only about 30 of us that actually do anything. The rest just show up from time to time and pay there dues but without them gathering income we wouldn’t be able to exist.
Most of the people here probably rarely post but I imagine them being here helps the site gain income by from the adds that they wouldn’t if it was just the active members coming.

I must say it would be a shame not to see this great project as its being finished.

Alan L,
My apologies for viewing and enjoying your wonderful work several times without responding.
Your lighthouse is fantastic, your skills are superb. I did not respond, as I thought that any praise would be redundant and from the peanut gallery as it were. Also because your skill is so far beyond mine and I have not even attempted a diorama, I had no suggestions.

Murdo,
I had looked at the review very early on, before you had posted, and had not returned. However at the time I wished there were just such pictures as you posted, I like to look in the box. I have seen it now, and say thanks, I was looking for that.

To any one else out there that feels this way, I am sorry if I enjoyed viewing your work and responses without adding my comment. Such as Littorio’s on the same review, that informed me that the RNLI are all volunteers. Thanks littorio.

I will respond in the future but don’t be surprised if I don’t find many eloquent words as I will probably be stunned in awe of the skill so many of you demonstrate.

Sincerely
Paul - redshirt

Hi Guys,

Firstly, Murdo, Jacob and Paul, thanks for you kind comments guys much appreciated. While you give High Praise indeed I've only been doing this seriously for about 2 years so almost everything I try is an experiment, so any feedback that I get is valued, thought about and often acted upon. If folks don't post then you're kinda left wondering if the others are just being nice or if in fact ones got it right.

I know I don't post as often as before but I do post in everything I look at, if not directly then on my next visit.

I've felt for some time that as Jim points out things have become very passive. Murdo and Jim I know what you mean when you do an article and 1 person responds. I did a half dozen reviews sometime ago and about half a dozen replies would sum up the response. Took the best part of a day to read each one and do the review.

I don't know what the answer is but I'm sure others feel the same.

Anyway, I'm off to say thank you for two photo walkabouts I read earlier, Murdo haven't read the article yet but thanks in advance.

Al

I have to admit that I'm often overwhelmed by the skills shown on this site.

Those who do entertaining and exact reviews, those who post builds with superb paint skills, those who do dioramas that scare me with their ingenuity and those who post just for the pleasure of someone else seeing their work apart from the infamous SWMBO.

There are also those who just hover on the fringes learning. Good luck to them!

Of course, don't forget those who can take some pieces of plastic, a few milk bottle tops, some string and an old lawnmower and from these items can produce eye watering models.

I sometimes post some kind of compliment that leaves me in mind of the bumbling schoolboy face to face with the bird he fancies the most. He instantly replies with total inanity hoping to please her.

This is a very diverse site with very diverse people and very diverse interests.

Long live this site!

Oh great stuff Murdo!

Yet another bumbling reply!

Hi Alan,

I can certainly sympathise with you, and know where Jim R. is coming from with regards to staff content.

Please forgive my brief rant.... and understand where it comes from...

As a staff member, I often spend hours looking for interesting links and topics to share. Many get scarcely a glance, let alone constructive comments.

Similarly with reviews... I'm not exagerating when I tell you that writing a review takes several hours. The photography is the short bit. The photo editing a bit longer. But writing a good and informative review is what takes the time. There's the research, the scrutiny of the parts and the assembly. I will easily spend 8-12 working hours before it gets published.

So yes... It's quite disheartening when the review is barely acknowledged

Ok.... my rant ends here...

Onto your predicament....

I think the problem is firstly where you posted your thread. No offense to the MSW team or yourself, but had you posted this under the (Armorama) Diorama you would probably have got a better or more response.

To be honest I would not have expected to find a diorama thread (despite it being of a naval nature) on MSW. Certainly on Armorama, and perhaps even HF, but not MSW or AeroScale.

The same applies to vignettes being posted on Armorama. I use a Woodlands Indian vignette by Al LaFleche (a HF staff member - and I trust he'll forgive me using him as an example) as a similar example.

Al posted pics of his completed vignette on Armorama a while back. It didn't get as much interest as it should have - it's a fantastic piece, and one of my favourites. The reason is... he posted it on the "wrong" forum/DG and thus for the "wrong" audience. Had he posted on HF with a historical miniatures audience the feedback would have been very different.

So what am I saying? You need to look at your audience and consider the type of feedback you want when (and where) you're posting.

Another thing I've noticed is the importance of correctly titling (sp?) a thread. To be honest I thought this thread was about painting your lighthouse. I didn't realise it actually covers all your lighthouse modelling as well. If the thread had been titled "Modelling a WW2-era British Lighthouse" it probably would have got a different response.

Don't take this personally. I do this on a regular basis. Just the other day I posted a topic titled "Victoria Lamb's Website". To date, it has got zero response. IMO it's the title.... if I had titled it something like "Mistress of Lighting Effects" it probably would have got a response.

Edit: No sooner do I make this comment than I see in the interim I have 3 responses. LOL

Another thing is what I call the dilution of topics caused by the sudden explosion of modelling sites. Over the last 12-18 months quite a few more modelling sites have appeared. This means that modellers are also posting their works across several sites, as opposed to just one or two, and thus replies and responses are more widely spead, and thus the perception is that there is not much interest. In truth if you add the responses up, you'll find you are probably getting more responses than previously.

And then lastly (for now ), please bear the seasonal influences in mind. I know you guys in the UK are having heavy rains and forced to stay indoors, but for the rest of the northern hemisphere they are enjoying summer, and are outdoors. Engin was saying to me just yesterday that it's over 40 degrees in Turkey, and it's just too hot to model at the moment. And I suppose folks are also taking their summer holidays now


Once again, I mean no disrespect to anyone with my comments. It's meant to help, and answer your questions.

From me... I really enjoyed your thead. I truly wish I'd found it sooner. Once again I'm reminded to check out the Network posts more often, instead of just living in my little HF world

Alan, keep well, keep modelling, and keep sharing photos of that AWESOME dio!!!

Rudi

hey sorry, just found out about your thread just a few minutes ago Al!
i just agree with you, honestly i don't complain because I often have up to 10 comments wherever I post some stuff BUT, what i am counting these days is more the amount of visits my threads get -that's also a reason why i enjoy the Kitmaker system (but the modelwarships one too) is that it tracks the amount of people visiting.
929 visits for your pier thread? a lot but then there was several updates. maybe you should start a new thread every time you get a new batch of pics?

otherwise I partly agree with Rudi when it comes to posting to the right forum, but the fact is that you have more chance your stuff being seen in Armorama than in MSW or HF, i mean: I have 20000 visits for a crap dio SBS in Armorama, and 7 bloody times less for a much much better one in HF

but then you post where your heart is

I think that Al Lafleche 's Indians got less answers in Armorama than in HF for obvious reasons, but in the same time, I am pretty much sure it has been more seen in Armorama.
oh well, my 2 cents!

JB

Hey all,

As many know I'm still a newbie here at the site but since I post on many topics and try to stir the pot, might as well jump in to this one.

Some topics or threads will get little to no activity, it doesn't mean people are rude or unappreciative of the work being done it just means at that time they don't really have a commit at that time. Sometimes I will visit a thread a few times before I post what small commit I may have. We all want attention of the work we do and that’s one reason we post our photos. I am in awe of some of the things I see at this site, from the articles, to the models, and even to the article series (the white fleet, very good history there)

I'm not trying to make a point (I ramble allot) just trying to give incite into why we may not see activity on our threads. I'm sure the peeps here at the site appreciate all the things on the site even if they stay in the shadows.

I have started many threads that went pretty much no where but I just figure some people aren't as post happy as me....lol. But word to the wise (gunny, gator, skipper, and all the staffies) I will still post and come up with ways to stir the pot (I never thought my "Do I call a ship HE or SHE" thread would have gotten so much activity). Just keep plodding along and at lest I will post........
C[ ]

I think I agree with Rudi on this one, it's a very nice diorama, with a naval link, but I think it is really a question of what sort of modelling is it. To me this is a military model in that the techniques are all to do with figure modelling and painting and construction of a diorama, so if MSW is a naval modelling site then the links are tenuous, it is like saying a Phantom is a naval model because it lands on a ship. I'm not in any way being critical of the skills required to build this sort of model, but I think if you were disappointed in the lack of response then it is because the majority of people here either don't understand or maybe appreciate them. Perhaps the general rule of thumb should be that something to be posted on MSW should have a ship or a boat in it?

Mike

Why bother Alan?
So others can see the excellent work you do, and creative mind you have.

My 2 cents:
I think that you have two observations here that I don't believe have been mentioned,
1) The slow season for all modeling sites kicked in about a month and a half ago. As the weather gets nicer, many folks make the time to scan the forums/sites but do not spend nearly the amount of time as they would during the poor weather months. I know I am guilty of this.
2) When the particular post shows 1,2,3 pages of responses on the forum page, I think many folks (who may have seen the original posting) just bypass not wanting to sort through what they may have read in the recent past. (I know you can click on the current page but I think the inclination is to pass by the longer threads especially if you've looked at it before)

Thirdly, And I am guilty of this: often times there is nothing critical to say (as in your superb lighthouse) and the viewer doesn't want to add to a long thread of back patting comments that may be perceived as a**kissing.

I agree that perhaps you should start a new thread each time you have an update and that perhaps having it on the Armorama (Dioramarama) site or at least a linking posting might get better response.
At any rate, it would be a tremendous loss if we stopped posting due to lack of comments. I think JBA has the right outlook-it's not necessarily the responses but the amount of people who "visit" and view the thread.

Keep up the good work, I know that although I oft times don't respond, I do follow all the diorama threads on most of the model sites.

Cheers,
Charles

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your responces. Some valid points there. On the location of the thread in Shipwrights it's kinda where it belongs as the idea developed and grew here.

I did post a thread on Armorama linked to the post as I wanted dio builders input as well as that of the salty dogs, but ............

Regardiong a new thread each time that's also avalid point but this is a long project and if people want to see it develop then I felt it was better to keep the posts on the LH together. This thread is focused on the painingt and finishing of the building. I have run alternative threads on different topics concerning the build.

This might be seen as 3 different levels of activity and the outside of the building, hence my reason for keeping it all together, although other parts of the build have crept in to as they got finished.

When ground work starts on the board that will be a separate thread and so on.

I wasn't just thinking about myself more about all those who post and don't get a resonse.

I realise there is great value in the post count but sometimes, like this morning for instance someone (thanks Frank) can point out something one has taken for granted and it's those inputs that help the build along.

We had this discussion before sometime ago, many of the thoughts raised here where raised then. All I can say is spare a though for the guys who do post, a 'Thanks for the Update' doesn't take too long.

Well back to Churchills and Batteries!!!!!

It's a lonely life on the open sea

Cheers guys.

Al

Yeah, I remember a thread some time ago that brought up the subject about people posting to every thread just to get there count up to move up in rank. I think it was when we were going through the big change and the rank disappeared for a while. I would hate to be accused of floating posts just to get a higher rank
And then there is the fact that I am probably the only person in the USA that is still on dial up and I am very choosy about the posts I open at home, since my time is limited. So the more inticing the title the more likely I am to open it up and wait for the pictures to download. I always have Armorama or MSW open at work, but most of the pictures don't come through at work because of the way our server is configured. Some do and some don't. I don't know what is up with that. Maybe there is more than one way to post photos.....
So at work, during breaks and lunch, I will scan the posts and see what I want to look at at home. I hadn't even seen this link and am very excited to go home tonight and look at this light house. I think a bit of a different title would have drawn me to it sooner.
Anyway, I'll look tonight and comment on it a bit. Probably a WOW or something similar as I am always amazed at the level of work people seem to be able to achieve.
Bottom line.....please keep posting, as you and guys like you are the ones that keep me here, whether I post a reply or not. This sight has a more personal feel to it than most and I enjoy that too.

Cheers friends,

Hi Plasticat,

Thanks for your comments and hope you enjoy your visit to the thread. All comments welcome. The last round of feedback has produced a change in plan.

Cheers

Al

Good Lord ,Mac, after seeing your great pics ,i went and sulked in a closet :-) The project is gorgeous and when finished , ought to be nothing short of magnificent .

Hang in there, man.

Dave

Hi Dave,

There's a MTB build going on now that has the same effect on me
Thanks for your input and encouragement.

Cheers

Al