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I.J.N. anti aircraft defense
UNITEDSTATESNAVY
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Posted: Monday, April 21, 2008 - 12:00 PM UTC
It seems like the imperial japanese navy had very poor defense against enemy aircraft....why is that?.I was watching history channel about the battle of the marianne's in which the USN ships shot down numerous enemy aircraft, I assume the IJN was never any good at air defense?
jowady
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Posted: Monday, April 21, 2008 - 04:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

It seems like the imperial japanese navy had very poor defense against enemy aircraft....why is that?.I was watching history channel about the battle of the marianne's in which the USN ships shot down numerous enemy aircraft, I assume the IJN was never any good at air defense?


Your assumption is incorrect, the Japanese air defenses were often quite effective, just look at what happened to VT-8 at Midway.
UNITEDSTATESNAVY
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Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 05:31 AM UTC
I will have to read about that seems most IJN ships were sunk by sub torpedo or dive bombers or torpedo bombers right? so to rephrase my question the war at sea was lost due to numerical superiority and tactics? apparently the IJN was not outgunned like the japanese army with their inferior rifles.Rather like a big chess game between carriers trying to launch planes to seek and destroy, did we just get lucky sometimes?
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Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 06:05 AM UTC
Most of VT-8 aircraft were shot down by the CAP. By the time of the Turkey Shoot, US shipboard AA was radar guided. One person on the range finder controlled a battery of weapons. He'd point and the guns would train and shoot.

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goldenpony
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Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 06:41 AM UTC

“Did we get lucky?”

In my opinion yes we did get lucky at Midway. We caught the Japanese carriers while their decks were full of planes and bombs. Their CAP had been drawn down close to the water by the torpedo bombers. Our dive bombers had little or no defense to worry about so they could dive on target.

Had both Bomber 8 and Torpedo 8 reached their targets at the same time things more than likely would have been different. Of course breaking their Naval code helped out a great deal.

Even after Midway things in the Pacific were still touch and go. Eventually we just out produced the Japanese. Then our technology began to improve by leaps and bounds.

UNITEDSTATESNAVY
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Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 08:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Most of VT-8 aircraft were shot down by the CAP. By the time of the Turkey Shoot, US shipboard AA was radar guided. One person on the range finder controlled a battery of weapons. He'd point and the guns would train and shoot.

Gator
radar guided? thats the info I am looking for the japanese apparently lacked tech in many areas......I feel rather sorry for them, they did not have a chance and I believe Yammato knew that a quick victory was the only way.I read somewhere that the japanese military relied on their supposed moral/physical superiority to offset their lack of technology...no automatic ground troop rifles ect, seems to not to apply so much the the IJN.What is CAP? Let me clarify "sorry" poor leadership wasted a lot of lives in promoting imperialism.
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Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 12:20 PM UTC
"CAP" is Combat Air Patrol. These are the fighters that are airborne to protect the carriers.

Another deciding factor in Midway was the Japanese lack of effective damage control. The IJN damage control division was small and worked by themselves, not supplemented by the rest of the crew as in the USN. Also, Coral Sea was a very important learning experience for the US. It was here where the US learned to drain the AVGAS fuel lines and fill them with inert gas. The Japanese didn't do that. Also, the fact that US carriers hangers could be opened to the sea. US fire fighting teams would work with the helm and literally wash the fire overboard.

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jowady
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Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 03:10 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Most of VT-8 aircraft were shot down by the CAP. By the time of the Turkey Shoot, US shipboard AA was radar guided. One person on the range finder controlled a battery of weapons. He'd point and the guns would train and shoot.

Gator


Most Japanese a/c shot down were likewise shot down by fighters. I understood the question as air defense, not just AAA. Incidently, the big advantage for American AAA probably wasn't radar as much as it was the VT proximity fuse.
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Posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 12:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Most of VT-8 aircraft were shot down by the CAP. By the time of the Turkey Shoot, US shipboard AA was radar guided. One person on the range finder controlled a battery of weapons. He'd point and the guns would train and shoot.

Gator


Most Japanese a/c shot down were likewise shot down by fighters. I understood the question as air defense, not just AAA. Incidently, the big advantage for American AAA probably wasn't radar as much as it was the VT proximity fuse.



Good point about the proximity fuse. That was a big secret for the US. We even kept it from the British for a good deal of the war. We knew AA would be needed on ships, but at the start fo the war most ships had token resistance. After Coral Sea and Midway that changed dramtically.

MartinJQuinn
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Posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 02:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

We knew AA would be needed on ships, but at the start fo the war most ships had token resistance. After Coral Sea and Midway that changed dramtically.



I think that shipboard AA defense didn't improve until the 40mm started being mounted in place of the 1.1 inch gun, and to a lesser extent, the 20mm being mounted in place of the .50 caliber.

At Santa Cruz, Enterprise was equipped with 40mm, while Hornet still had her 1.1 inch guns. Of course, Enterprise also had South Dakota tagging along (equipped with a mix of 1.1 and 40mm, IIRC), but it was the Big E's guns that blasted some of the attacking dive bombers from the sky. The improved weapon may have been the difference between Enterprise surviving the fight, or joining Hornet at the bottom of the ocean.
UNITEDSTATESNAVY
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Posted: Monday, April 28, 2008 - 06:20 PM UTC
this is all quite interesting...thanks for all the input
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