Something occoured to me. Might be a daft idea, but I will share it with you anyway.

With the emergance of "Superkits" like the upcoming Dragon Scharnhorst which include a fair amount of etch, but everything not you would need. Would it not be an idea for etch manufacturers to produce two sets, firstly a simple set, in the case of the Dragon Scharnhorst simply those parts that are not provided in the kit (maindeck railing etc) And a second set, which contains the first fret, plus an additional fret containing every detail under the sun?

Even for standard type kits, A basic fret with the "essentials", guard rails, ladders, radars and the suchlike. And a "full set" with a second fret which could contain everything else.

I know it would be a faff, but Eduard does a similar thing for Aircraft with it's Zoom range, which are relatively inexpensive, and will gives a good cockpit, plus a few other bits and peices, and do make a difference to the finished model at about 1/3-1/2 the price of the full set.

It could also get more people into using etch as the cost & parts provided would less daunting in the basic set. Particularly in 1/350th scale I have heard modellers baulking at paying £30+ for etch for a particular kit, even if they are getting a lot of etch for their money.

With the smaller size of our market, may not make sense to offer alternative packages for the same kit. I don't know, I am just sort of thinking out loud, please feel free to shoot me down.

Si

Ahoy Simon

Good thought my friend.

I know Griffon already do this to a certain extent for example their 1/72 scale S 100 sets.

Cheers


Sean

Most of them already have a basic set for a particular navy that would provide the railings, etc.. The problem with what you're proposing is that they would need to design produce, and stock TWO sets. What would be the motivation?

Hi Tracy,

I think you are slightly missing what I am getting at. I am not talking two completely different sets, I am talking a basic set, and a basic set + extra fret with everything else on it (take a look at Eduard's wingy thingy stuff, they produce a zoom set, which is basic and a full set which is the zoom fret + one or two larger frets depending on the aircarft.)

4 things over the last few months got me thinking about this.

1. Conversations had over the club stand at the Hendon Model show, a number of people looking at the ships on the stand, revolving around people being put off having a go at adding etch a ship, as the ship specific sets were relatively expensive to mess up. (and to be fair, if you have to buy a railing set, ladder set, radar set, etc, you might as well buy a full set for that ship)

2. I bought the Dragon USS Gearing, great kit, great box full of stuff, and then the GMM etch for it, again a great set and to be fair there is a lot on Loren's fret that is not in the box, and I don't mind paying for quality, but it pulled me up when I realised I had spend almost £100 on a 1/350th destroyer . The option of a simpler fret would have been nice, not just railings, there were some ship specific parts that were not dealt with on Dragon's etch.

3. I posted some pics of WEM's set for the Airfix HMS Illustrious on the IPMS UK website, and there were a number of comments, either echoing the above in 1) or just," I cannot justify £45 on etch for one ship.

4. The Dragon Scharnhorst, There is a shed load of etch in the Kit, and yes, GMM, WEM etc are the masters and could probably improve on at least some of it, but the option to buy a set containing what is not included in the kit , would be nice,

Sorry, this has got a bit waffly, but If you think along the the lines of the 2 sets being basic fret & basic fret + superdetail fret. The motivation could be that those of us who spend the money on the full set would still do so, but those not prepared or able to pay out for the full set, and new boys and girls who might like a less expensive option to risk messing up would have the basic set to go for.

As I said in my first post, "Might be a daft Idea." and I posted it with the full acceptance if it is a daft idea, I quite happy to be put firmly back in my box, but I feel it is worth running up the flagpole to see who salutes it, or not as the case may be.

All the best

Si

Caroline and I concur with Tracy--WEM (and GMM) already produce ranges of basic details that will work, without getting into doubling up for specific kits. And while some may be balking at the price of our Illustrious PE, enough others are happy to the point that we're having trouble keeping up with orders.

Thank you John & Caroline, appreciate your taking time to respond

As a team at the sharp end you know far better than me the market and what will and won't work.

Whilst this sort of thing seems to work in the Aviation side of the hobby I appreciate that is much larger market than the maritime side, and it is horses for courses. Daft idea then, but sometimes until you ask a question you don't know if it's daft or not.

By the by am going to navy days at Porstmouth a week on Sunday, HMS Daring & HMS Dauntless will be there, going on board her could turn out to be expensive come Telford

Best regards,

Si

Begging your pardon, but you ARE talking about two completely different sets. One might only have a little extra, but they're both going to require separate artwork, separate production runs, separate instructions, separate part numbers, etc.. John's already laid the issue to rest for WEM, but I wanted to clarify the point. I just don't see there being any advantage for the manufacturer and too small of a market to make it worth their while. If cost is an issue for the modeler, then there are cheaper railing products.

Simons idea reminds me of buying a car these days.
First you buy the car with basically nothing more in it than the seats, wheel, and engine. And then you decide to add convenience, comfort, luxury, sports or professional packages to fit the car to your needs.
Basically it's a good idea, however, it forces the maker to offer and stock a wider variety of items increasing cost and risk, thus defying the purpose to not only make the purchase decicion more individual, but cheaper.
Secondly, it's always hard to tell what is "Basic need" and what's beyond. What one might think of as "basic essential " other may define as "unnessary".

Maybe the next step of market development is that you can visit the WEM or GMM or others and not buy full sets, but combine individually pre-designed items into a Make-your-own-sheet program. Of cause - as it is now - it will be a lot more expensive. ..., but maybe this is the future of the aftermarket.
Here's a market idea! Any takers?

Cheers,
Guido

Hi Guido,

Not us, mate!

Hi Si,

The only daft questions are the ones unasked!

Simon - I see your point. Like having the choice of a simple Eduard update for an armor kit, upscale to Aber, or get the full Lion Roar treatment at 4x the kit value.

I get my "basic" PE sets from Lucky Models, as they carry Flyhawks, LionRoar, Voyager, etc at half the cost of purchasing in the USA and free air shipping. Some of them are very specific (carrier cranes, Oerlikon guns, etc), beyond the usual "ladders, doors and railings" basic trio. That would be your equivalent to the "Eduard zoom" frets. I then get my "ship-specific" PE from GMM, WEM and Lion Roar, depends on price, ship, interest, etc.

In terms of pricing: I am a relatively recent hobby returnee. At first I was aghast at the 'extra" price of getting AM products vis-a-vis the kit. But that is the economic model. Some balk at purchasing a 50 dollar/euro/pound display case for a ship..for some, it is a necessity. Same with PE/AMs. I know now that I will spend 2-3x as much on AMs than on the kit itself.

Another way of putting this is... golden age of ship modelling with so many great choices!

Hi James,

You are right it is a golden age for ship modellers.

All I was thinking was options might tempt a few more modellers into having a bash at nautical subjects.

A number of the Armour / aircraft guys I have met, through attending a model club & going to shows got into using etch through the Eduard Zoom sets, baulking at the full sets, and the likes of Voyager / Lion Roar because of the cost and fear of messing them up.

My main interest is in the Royal Navy, so it is worth my while buying Generic sets for RN ships even if I only need a small part of the set for a particular build, the rest of it will most likely come in handy at some point. If I step outside that and build a one off from another navy, the choices I have are buy the £50 full set, which I may wish to do, or a number of Generic sets, which may cost me as much as the full set and half the stuff will go unused.

I had that particular thought when I saw the Trumpeter USS San Fransisco on sale second hand at a show for abt 1/2 price, and thought nice looking cruiser, might fancy a bash at that, as an out of the box with minimal upgrade, then thought two choices, either full etched set, and major project, or a number of generic USN sets to get the fittings I would want, and have the above issues, so left it for a somebody who would give her a better home than me.

But as John & Tracy have explained the market is not big enough, and they know far better than, which is why I posed the thought in the first place.

Thanks for your input

Si

Simon - an affordable option (again, with the caveat that I am inthe USA and that is my "market") is the Dragon premium kits. That was my first ship PE, the USS Adams. The premium kits have a small PE frets; some doors, a radar or 2, some rails. A great "starter" set, and comes with the kit (of course). Quality and fit of the kit varies; I havea few but have only attempted one build. An experience modeler (but ship newbie) would have no problem using the PE enclosed in the premium kits.