Yeah, I know. Osprey has the occasional typo. But the photos are never mistaken.

But often miss-captioned and miss-interpreted. I think that your assertion that *ALL* Zerstorers had that configuration for the entirety of the war is in error, but we can leave it to a difference of opinion. I can at least rest knowing that I've shown your statement that Dragon got an obvious feature wrong to be incorrect and that people don't need to go fixing an error that doesn't exist.

They are all different, depending on the batch (which yard). Z-37, Z-38 and Z-39 had this small style. Z-35, Z-36 and Z-43 had an even smaller version with rollers and they are all different.
It is actually a nice way to distinguish the ships on a foto.
The older ships type 1934 and 1936 have the bigger versions as a kind of steel cages for propeller protection because their stern is narrower. Z-39 which belongs to type 1936a (mod) has a wide stern, so the fender is a small version.
To confuse things further type 1936a (Z-23-Z-30) had a small cage type propeller guard.
Anyhow, that one on the photo is correct and as installed by the Germaniawerft in Kiel

Best regards from Shanghai

So what is the Z number of this particular destroyer in the photo? And in any case the Dragon piece doesn't look anything like the one in the photo. So if you are right, this piece still must be replaced or corrected.

I answered part of my own question. of the three mentioned destroyers built by Germaniawerft only Z39 was taken by the US,renamed DD939 and used for trials until given to the French for spare parts. (At least according to Osprey, if they haven't got that wrong. Of course, I've not seen any publication which is always 100% right in everything they print. Like plastic kits - no matter how good Dragon is they're not always 100% right!) But please post a pic of a wartime unaltered Z35 - Z39 so I can get this detail correct.

Please have a look here:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waffen/Z37.htm

This is Z-37, a photo from their official log (KTB), or here:

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/german_destroyers.htm

for Z-38 /HMS Nonsuch
There are not that many photos of german warships available, a lot was lost at war's end, ships as well as documents. For Z-39 the situation is actually exceptionally well, because of all the photos made during the docking in US.
I would not worry too much about the propeller guards. I think they are correct like that. Have a look at the 15cm guns of the twin turret and the singles

Thanks Shanghaied, your posting is most helpful. I notice I have to add blast bags on all the guns. The 'vier Ablauframpen im Heck' refers to the depth charges, but is 'Ablauframpen' racks or launchers?

Hi Biggles,

thanks and merry christmas!

Blastbags seems to be generally quite small and not really a fixed installation on the 15 cm. Most pics I have seen do not have them on the twins and on the singles they are quite small. I omitted them on mine. But be carefull, the gun barrels on the single are too short. I think they are actually 12.7cm from the older types. You can see the dimensions in www.navweaps.com . I moved the barrels abt 3mm more out on mine.
The Ablauframpen are for mines and only 2. The rails can be clearly seen. Mining was on of th major tasks for german destroyers. The 4 depth charge throwers seem to be missing from the dragon kit. I think they are standard side throwers like on british and US ships, but I am not 100%sure. I need to check my sources before I can say more. Anyway they are not sternramps, because they would interfere with the mine-rails.
Can check the depth charge thing if you are interested.

Best regards

A pic in Osprey's German Destroyers show the depth charge launchers, which look very much like K-guns, anchored to a plate bolted to the deck between the mine rails. According to the Lexicon der Wehrmacht link above, the Ablauframpen refers to Wasserbomben (depth charges), not the mines, of which there two either side of the aft superstructure. Obviously the launchers must be removed to accomodate a full load of mines but no mention is made where they are stowed when not used or where the extra depth charges are stowed. Unfortunately Dragon supplies neither depth charge launchers nor a mine load for the Z39. Hopefully some AM company will produce both or either.

As far as I know the kit of Z-31 should have mines. Unfortunately Dragon don't supply parts or separate sprues. I tried this when I needed a 15cm single mount for my backdating of Z-39
I have seen a pic wit the the depth charge launchers in the background. looks like a K-gun, but could be also something for just dropping it over the side. Very simple affair. On the pics of Z-39 during docking in the US I could not find them.
It seems they were located besides the first torpedo tube set on both sides or directly besides the mine rails in the stern.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix2/0593906.jpg should show them, but they were probably unloaded before docking

Thanks for that great pic showing the positioning of the aft upper deck supports - Dragon really missed that one! I've had the same problem with Dragon. They are really not very helpful when wanting to buy extra parts or sprues. Presumably then, the presence or nonpresence of depth charge throwers depended on the particular mission involved. If mine-laying - no depth charge throwers; if escorting capitol ships - probably depth charge throwers.

Forgot to mention the missing supports. Thats the kind of things i nearly always replace or add by wire. Same with the masts here
Here is a pic of a german depth charge thrower

http://www.ship-model-today.de/sd074-03.jpg

Sideways (behind the standing guy is a loading cradle about same size, but a vertical steelframe. I have seen a picin a german forum from Z33 where it is installed at the side of the aft superstructure (1 set each). The minerails are removed in this area! So you are right, its either mines or throwers. Interesting is, that the thrower is installed with direction abt 30 deg aft, not exactly abeam. That is different from the link, which shows the installation on a trawler.

Dragon seems to be not very clever with the spares. They attach a handful of little people to each ship, but not enough for a complete crew and you can get nowhere any addition in the same style They could make some money selling packages of 20 or so. Same with the weapon sets.

It was in the original CAD. I suspect that they planned on putting it in as PE and then forgot; Dragon has a problem, in my experience, with photo-etch design still.

I've been pushing them to sell their weapons and figures separately for years. They are not interested in the weapons sets because from their standpoint that helps make their competitor's models better. The figures they just say they will look at it.

I can see Dragon's point of view about making competitiors kits look better.

Dragon's flakvierlings and 37 mm's are really fiddly little buggers. I would rather use Veterans Kriegsmarine accessories, when they are available - they seem to sell out quite frequently . As for Dragon figures - they are very well detailed with facial features, but seem to be 1/300 scale as they are actually taller than the doors!

After reading a review of Z-38 i suddenly saw, that they were talking about 15cmtwin and 12.7cm single mounts (obviously quoting the dragon ad).
Checking older reviews i found the same statement for Z-39.
This now explains , why I had to convert the singles on my model (see m previous comment)

Seems, that that mistake is less a mismeasurement as a misunderstanding of the designer, as the ships had 15 cm twins and 15cm singles. and it seems to affect all Dragon german destroyers.

Hmmm.. has anyone else tried to build this kit? First set of guns I am leaving off most of the tiny bits as there just isn't enough plastic to glue together. These parts are over-engineered to me. My opinion.

I manged to "melt down completely one of the AA guns . At the end I replaced them by photo etch, just keeping the barrels.
And replace the masts with brass or wire.

Dragon over engineer a kit!?!?! That never happens.

All I can say is that the mustn't test build their models after the moulds are made. Anyway, I am leaving off quite a few of the idiot parts and I don't believe it will be very noticeable.

Hi Tom.

I haven't been able to find the twin 2cm mounts anywhere. Any idea who make them as I have a few of these destroyers to build..

Hi Warren

I used the WEM Kriegsmarine AA set. I am not at home now, but if you like i can give you the ref. no. tomorrow evening.
I know, that Lion Roar has a " Z-destroyer set" which should have parts for all kinds of destroyers from Z-24 to Z43, incl the different AA weapons.

Best regards from Wuhan

PE guns look OK from the side, but tend to disappear when viewed from the front or rear. It's too bad Veteran Models went out of business. He (forget his name!) had just started a fine Kriegsmarine weapons and accessories line. With this increased interest in Kriegsmarine models I'm surprised that no other AM company has stepped in to fill this void.

Thanks for that Wuhan.
I will see what the WEM set is like first. The LionRoar ones are a little expensive for me at the moment. Maybe I should just stop complaining and get on with it!
Cheers mate
Warren