Hi Arjan. Glad to see someone attempting the Annapolis conversion, and also very glad that my earlier 3d model has been useful. It has also been my intention to build one of these boats from the Italieri kit, but as you say there is quite a bit of work involved.
These are the bits that need replacing.



I made the 3d model a long while before the kit came out, and there are a couple of areas that are probably wrong.
The fittings/wires on the mast are probably wrong. It was my best guess from the photos I had at the time. Also the saddles over the torpedo tubes may not extend down to the deck on the inboard side. The band stand sides may not be solid. Very poor reference pics in that area. And as you have pointed out, the bulkhead and door at the rear of the bridge are missing in my 3d model. It is not visible in any of my reference pictures.
I had intended 3d printing the majority of these replacement parts until the upgrade kit for the PT boat came out, so the radar and single orlikon are taken care of.
Also 3d printing in this scale is still quite expensive, so I have been concentrating on the smaller scales for the time being. I have just remodeled the exhausts, as better reference pics have become available, and they should now be quite accurate. I guess they were originally standard PT exhausts, cut down and rotated 90 degrees, judging by the odd position of the three reinforcing ribs on each side.
Anyway, enough of my rattling.
Great work, and I look forward to seeing the rest of the build.

Bogey.

Thanks for the encouraging words gentlemen, I will post some pics of my progress this week.. Thanks again for the pic you sent me Dave. Do you happen to know who was the manufacturer of the Vosper in the pic, was it a Jacob's or Annapolis boat? Having studied the pic you sent I'm afraid I have made some dimensional errors and I will probably also have to alter the cavitation plate and the exhaust pipes .
By the way, for those interested in building a lend-lease Vosper, David produces an exhaust set (I only noticed this last Friday and then contacted David). If I hadn't already scratch built the mufflers I would certainly have ordered this set:

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/bogeysbits?section=1%2F35+Scale&s=0

Two pics that might be useful, judging from the background these were taken in Malta:




Regards,

Arjan

Hello Arjan,

as already ddiscussed, nice model and good craftsmanship. I just send last weekend my 3D printing parts to shapeways in Eindhoven, when back I can make some pictures of the quality of the parts. Just in case you would like to reproduce a few pieces (e.g. the tub arround the twin bofors) in 3D and have it printed.

I like when people have the skills and time building that stuff themselves, with me, only home on the weekend, I need some support in order to make progress - therefore printing is my thing for difficult geometries (like the early S-Boat tubes from the kriegsmarine) just a hint, recommendation.

bis denne

Christian

Hi Arjan. I wish I could say for sure which boat the picture was of. It does appear in a group of photos which include MTB 375, MTB 376, but also MTB 410. Possably even from the same group as the two above. It is possable to see that it has the new radar set and the twin orlikon on the back, so it may be from a later Jacobs boat, but I am not sure what if any differences there where between them.
From your previous pic it seems I wasent too far out with mast fittings after all.

cheers, Bogey.

Thanks David. Christian, I'm not a masochist and I know scratch building the twin Oerlikon tub would be a nightmare :



The pic is from this site I only discovered last week. Some great pics of MTB 349 which was apparently armed to the teeth. Two twin Oerlikons or at least one twin and a single one, not quite clear. Apparently it also carried some big flares. Can someone tell me if these were to be fired by the 2 inch rocket/flare launcher?

http://www.rodericktimms.royalnavy.co.uk/miscellaneous_photos.html




Regards,

Arjan

Hi Arjan, ive looked at my research pics again, and the bandstand is an awkward area. There were several different paturns, and I think the ones fitted to these boats were probably constructed in the field. The pic you show above look more like an ML to me or though I could well be wrong.
If you look at this pic of 405, it seems to have a segmented outside and also may have been nothing more than a step.





Whether all the boats had the same arrangement, I cant say.

hope this helps.

Bogey.

ps, the earlier pic of 403 is a photoshopped pic of 376 with the no changed and the radar added. I think the crew could be altered as well.

Hi David,

There's a reasonably good pic of the twin Oerlikon bandstand in the squadron booklet on page 37 (see my remark about this pic earlier in the thread). Al Ross mentioned this photo is IWM image A 29009. Personally I think this pic might show MTB 378 (in another pic this vessel has the American horizontal smoke cannister in the same position). The bandstand in the pic looks like a standard one to me, that is, it has a round closed edge and not an angular one. If the pic of 403 is a photoshopped version of 376 it must be of a pic I haven't seen before because the wel-known pic of 376 was taken slightly further back (to the right). If you are right the person who tampered with the pic put in a lot of effort. He even reproduced the crest and the Italian helmet:




Regards,

Arjan

Hi Arjan. Thats interesting. I somehow missed that picture "37"
despite owning the book. In that case, I can only guess that 405 is possibly a repair after action damage or similar.
I will send you a couple of other pics that will be useful, but as I cant remember where I found them and probably dont have copyright permission, I am reluctant to post them here.

cheers, Bogey.

ps,I also made a mistake earlier. Its actually 375 thats been changed to 403.

Once more, I really appreciate the pics you sent. To return to the twin Oerlikon stand. It's quite possible of course that the Annapolis boats didn't have the same stand as the Jacob's ones. The pics you show of 405 remind me of the simple stands used on Higgins craft. For those who don't have the squadron book here's a scan of the pic showing the stand of one of the Annapolis Vospers (it might be MTB 378):



I think it's an Annapolis Vosper and not a Jacob's one because the former appear to have had the American horizontal smoke generators whereas the latter had the British "dustbin" generators. It's for this reason I think that the muffler photo shows a Jacob's boat.

Regards,

Arjan

I'm afraid I've made very little progress. After having pored over the period pic of the transom I decided I wasn't happy with my work. The cavitation plate has to be altered slightly. This still has to be done and shouldn't take too much time because I can leave it in place. The mufflers and exhaust pipes, however ,would take a complete overhaul and I decided to order David's printed set instead of doing it all over again. The tiller openings will have to be lowered slightly as well as the top rudder hinges. So I removed the exhausts and will continue working on the transom when I receive the exhaust set. The only real progress has been the installation of the prop shafts. Their diameter is 3mm outside the hull and 4 mm inside. It should be clear from the pics that the position of the outer shafts of the lend-lease boats differed from the British version made by Italeri. From what I understand the later British built Vospers also had the outer shafts closer to the keel.








David has really been working very hard, he has produced a smoke generator, the rear vents, a band stand and ammo lockers. I think these parts look great and I have ordered all the items apart from the generator because the boat I'm building had the Elco type generator.

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/bogeysbits?section=1%2F35+Scale&s=0

Great work David and this will save me an awful lot of time


Regards,

Arjan

Hi Arjan. Many thanks for the kind words. It has made a change from the usual smaller scales I work with, but I have had it on the list for quite a while.
I have learnt a lot from reading this thread already. When I originally started with the Vosper model, I copied the Revell 1/72 kit, and got about half way through a computer sim/game using the Blender game engine. As better research material became available the Vosper model gradually morphed into the version on Turbo Squid. It seems I managed to get my wires crossed, and what I thought was an Annapolis boat is in fact an R Jacobs boat. Unfortunately my programing skills were not sufficient to finish the game, and a while later "Knights of the sea" was released.
Back on topic.
That is starting to look good. While in can manage the 3d modeling, and I'm not too bad at static display models, I have not yet attempted an RC model with all the necessary running gear. I am really looking forward to see how you fit the rest of the components in. One thing that puzzles me is how you intend to gain access to the battery and electronics. Do you remove the whole upper deck, or will you be making a hatch.

Thanks again, Bogey.

Hi David, that is indeed the biggest challenge apart from keeping the weight down as much as possible. The challenge and added attraction of RC conversion for me is to find ways to compromise as little as possible. I think my method of keeping things accessible will be roughly similar to Maarten's solution here (which doesn't mean I have all the answers already) :

http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/bouwverslagen-schepen/153840-italeri-vosper-mtb-rc.html

Nowadays there are small, cheap and very strong magnets that can replace screws in many cases. Also I will have to remove a large section of the rear deck anyway and the layout of the U.S. designed deck will make access easier. Last Summer I made an rc conversion of Italer's PT 596 and I also had to think of solutions. Strangely enough there are lots of threads on rc conversions of 1/35 boats on the internet but one rarely gets to see pics of the accessibility solutions.

Regards,

Arjan

Outstanding work, Arjan. Purely outstanding.

Thanks Garth, it would seem there's another pic in your squadron book (page 35) showing two Annapolis Vospers. Judging from these it would seem these craft didn't have the platform that is immediately abaft the bridge on the Italeri boat. Would anyone have any pics that could confirm this? The platform is also missing in David's 3d drawings.



In the mean time I have removed some sections from the rear deck and replaced these with 2mm plastic card. I also removed quite a bit of detail that shouldn't be there or should be repositioned (filler caps, mushroom vents). I must say that removing the delicate Italeri detail almost brought tears to my eyes, but then no gain without pain . The finely scribed lines of the deck planking also have to be sacrificed in the process but then I don't think this delicate detail is visible anyway once the model is primed and painted.

I also noticed that the American Vospers had slightly different torpedo support brackets (lightening holes in the sheet metal):



Don't know yet if I will bother to alter the Italeri torp mounts. For some strange reason the outline of the torp tube ends was painted in white on the deck, what could possibly have been the reason for this?



Will make some pics soon (when the sun is shining again).

edit: the white paint may have been a visibility aid at night? By the way, the white outline is also present in the squadron book pic (behind the shadow cast by the torp tube).

Regards,

Arjan

[Quoted text] For some strange reason the outline of the torp tube ends was painted in white on the deck, what could possibly have been the reason for this?

It's called "Counter-shading", Arjan. The whole point is to lighten shadows and darken highlights. Light colors on the bottom of an object, dark colors on top. That's why the top of the Torpedo tubes are darker than the undersides. You'll notice that there is a white patch on deck outboard of the tube, corresponding to the 'shadow' of the firing cylinder mounted on it. Also why the insides of the ventilators are white, to negate the shadow. By evening out shadows and highlights you make an object more monochrome and thus harder to see. Al (BTW) You've done some great work on modifying the Vosper.

Thanks Al, no doubt you are quite right. This pic also shows the same elaborate paint scheme (simply the most impressive Vosper pic around if you ask me ):



Regards,

Arjan

Same basic counter-shading idea used on this F6F Hellcat and other USN aircraft.



Still in use today on modern A/C. Al

Just a brief update on my progress, I've made some pics tonight which aren't very good. I'm going to start on the hatch next to the rear vents tomorrow. There is still quite a lot of detail on the deck that has to be removed.






The good news is that David has just produced a set of British pattern Oerlikons (one single and a twin one). I'm delighted with this set because the pedestals are quite different from the Italeri ones and these would have been very difficult to scratch build . Once more great work David

http://www.shapeways.com/model/2966815/20mm-oerlikon-and-twin-20-mm-oerlikon-1-35-scale.html?li=shop-results&materialId=6

Regards,

Arjan

Some pics to show my progress on the deck. As can be judged from the pics I removed most of the original detail on the deck. I moved the main engine room access hatch/ventilator two mm forward, modified the two ventilators and still have to remove the bases of the mushroom vents next to these vents (they should be repositioned about 1 cm forward).








Not clear to me what the function of these horizontal "boards" was, also not clear to me if they were made of wood or metal.




David's bandstand:





The detail on David's aft vents hadn't quite worked out as we had hoped so I inserted some bits of ribbed plastic from glazing spacers :



Some general remarks:

For some reason the vents on the American Vospers were turned 180 degrees compared to the British ones, that is, the stacks on the vent boxes were facing forward.

Fortunately the forecastle seems to require fewer modifications, e.g. only one mushroom vent has to be repositioned instead of all as on the rear deck. It appears that the triangular braces at the rear of the forecastle were not present on the American Vospers.

It would appear that the American Vospers were equipped with American style depth charge racks (as provided in the Italeri modification set)whereas the depth charges themselves were of the British type (if I interpret the available pics correctly).


Arjan

Today the sun is shining so I went out to make some pics of my progress. I repositioned the mushroom vents using the Italeri pe parts intended to go onto the portholes. These parts were kindly donated by Julian as I had used mine for the daylights. I still have one mushroom vent left, it's quite possible it should go somewhere on the deck. The PT 723 drawing and the drawing of the Italian postwar Vosper show quite a few other locations but I decided to stick to pictorial evidence only. Anyway I also need one mushroom vent to go on top of the roof of the chart house.

Forecastle: I repositioned one vent and added the wood railing (I don't know the correct term . I still have to add two fairleads near the bow but I don't know if these were open or closed (pics are not terribly clear and I get the impression both types were used).








Arjan

Really starting to shape up, great work, Arjan. Al

Top!

Certainly something worth the bump!!

Excellent work, Arjan.

Thanks a lot for the compliments gentlemen. Progress has been slow due to some health issues. I have been adding bolt/nut detail to the torptubes. I have used Meng plastic nuts/bolts small. I used two different sets, A and B (the latter also have washers). I used 0.8mm boltheads from the A set for the tube flanges and 1mm nuts and bolts from set B . The pic is not terribly clear and I still have to add quite a few :



I overhauled the transom (lowering the tiller openings, adding the mufflers etc.). Now I only have to add the two emergency tiller mounts and two braces.



The two rear hatches can be openened to provide access:



I installed two old-fashioned brushed motors on homemade aluminium mounts :




Regards,

Arjan