Howdy fellas,

There was some discussion about whether a Battleship would actually be moved rearward (in relationship to the direction of the main guns) when a full 'broadside' was fired.
I think the photo below puts that argument to rest. If you look at the wake lines moving away from, and straight out to the ships starboard side, I think the evidence is obvious.
Unless of course the Battleship had some type of underwater thrusters....:-)




...nice pic I think.

Tread.

BTW, I just learned that this action is also called 'unlimbering' a broadside.
Learn something new everyday! :-)

Also, remember when I was asking about the rather interesting variants of the Japanese battleships that they were turning/converting into adhoc Carriers(forget the names at the moment) after they lost most of their Carriers?
Well, I was very much surprised to find that the U.S. was also considering this plan! I suppose you guys already knew that huh?
For those who didn't, and would like a little proof, you might enjoy this little tidbit.



How about that.

Tread.

And here's an artist's rendition to go with it....



Interesting how they were planning the 'upsweep' part of the flight deck. Very similar to the Soviet style.

Tread.

Oh, and we were also discussing the sheer brute force that was exerted when those 16-inchers were fired. I think "20 or so metre's" was mentioned.
I think the photo below illustrate's that 'force' quite nicely. :-)



If you look at the blast effect on the surface of the surrounding sea in front of the main gun at the stern, it is larger than the same effect at the main bow guns. But as you can also see, the bow guns are just a little behind (fired after) the rear gun.
Interesting pic.

Tread.

Hi Tread,

The broadsides don't scoot BB's sideways. What you're seeing is the concussion waves from the guns fireing. Your BB ro CV drawing is interesting. I've never seen that before. Of course by that time the Essex class CV's were being built and Japan was running out of Navy. The lower photo is of a modern Iowa class BB/CV with a ski plartorm landing deck for Harrier V/STOL. This upgrade was proposed but never accepted........Mike T

Howdy modelguy2,

As usual, many thx for the 'clarity'. Being a 'newbie' at this whole 'floaty' thing, I am always trying to come up with something new, on the off-chance it'll make me less 'newbie'.....

Nice pics though, huh?

Tread.

TH - I remember visiting the Missouri at Bremerton (sometime back in 196----something), there was a note and appropriate photo that stated that a full nine-gun barrage over the side would move an Iowa-class BB sideways 17 FEET!!!!! Now that is some power. You could the "bow wave" running the full length of the hull as she shifted sideways!! It must have felt something like what I used to feel when firing the main gun on the M551 Sheirdan!~

As far as the jump ramps on a Iowa-class - who would want to launch so close to the superstructure #:-) You would definitely not want to sneeze!!!

Tread, I'm going to have to go with modelguy2 on the blast effects. Like I said in an earlier post old battleship sailors swear their ships moved when they fired the main guns but I don't think it's physically possible. Along the same lines is the common belief that the USS Arkansas was thrown into the air by the blast from the second test bomb at Bikini.

As to your BB/CV this could be the kind of wild "what if" things that militaries are always coming up with. As far as conversions I know that while the Independance class carriers were conversions of Cleveland class light cruisers there was talk of converting Baltimore class heavy cruisers, or even Alaska class "large cruisers" to carriers as well. Nothing was done because the Essexs proved fine for the job.

There was a lot of work done between the wars coming up with hybrid ships. The Lexington and Saratoga originally had eight 8" guns. Some thought was given to small carriers with cruiser guns or cruisers with carrier decks. These were mainly to get around treaty limitations. When the treaties went away the need for hybrids did also.

If you want some fun go to http://www.combinedfleet.com/kaigun.htm Scroll down to Admiral Furashitas Fleet. (Sound that name out and you'll see it's VERY tounge in cheek) You'll see some great ideas listed there, like an Midway class carrier melded with a Iowa class battleship. Amazing what you can do with PhotoShop.


That is also a great place if you get bored with making actual ships, you can make some of these wild concepts.

Howdy fellas,

Thx for the input. Ya know it's funny how these things can be interpreted. The idea of the Battleships moving sideways...well, I'll have to surrender my final opinion on that to one of the 'Laws of Physics' that states (and I'm paraphrasing). "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". I'll leave it at that. That, and I'd be amiss if I didn't give credence to the veteran sailors who tacked up that notice at Bremerton.

Another interesting thing (funny how life is sometimes). I just finished a job for a customer who served on the (if I remember correctly) Seaplane Tender 'Columbia Sound'. He was actually at Bikini when they set off the Atomic Bomb there. He was told it was OK to look at the explosion. Six months later he couldn't see anymore. Six months after that he recovered approximately 20% of his eyesight. One of the things he told me was that he saw, with his own two good eyes (at the time) one of the larger ships rise up into the air.
Not sure if it's the one you named, but he said it was one of the larger ships.
Interesting, don't you think?

Tread.

Yes, Tread, it's very interesting. Not wanting to open a can of worms but a lot of people believe they've seen UFOs and Big Foot. I would NEVER insult a veteran who was there by saying "it just aint so" but I would keep my mouth shut and enjoy speaking to somebody who went through such an amazing experience.

...what?...you do't believe in UFO's or Bigfoot?

Tread.

The old gentilman is correct, I have a photo in one of my books that show that explosion. and there is more then one ship that was lifted in the air by the explosion. Or you could say they were carried up with the plume of water from the explosion. Looking at the photo is very eary indeed, it gives me goose bumps! The Hybrid carrier Battleships were designed to launch float planes off there decks, and they retreaved them from the water with there cranes. I have plans to build a what if hybrid one of these days, maybe the Bismarck converted !

Cheers,
Garry

Here's an old classic pic for ya Tread.. I know it's an oldie but always a goodie. Can you imagine the thoughts of some people that could actually see those projectiles in the right hand side of the pic coming at you!!!!

[img]http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g40000/g47015.jpg[img]

I never get tired of looking at this one. Sorry I just had to throw this one out there

Paul

Dang here lets try the pic link again

Garry, I'm "book smart" about the sea. All I know is what i read in books. I've got a book at home, Ghost Fleet. It's by a team of divers that dove the Bikini wrecks. They show a picture of the second bomb and point out a dark spot in the huge wave of water rising upwards. They say how this spot is usually incorrectly said to be the Arkie, USS Arkansas, climbing the water spout. They say that special film photography, slowed way down, shows that what the dark spot really is is the water that was displaced in the water spout by the battleship. The ship was rolled over onto her side then crushed flat when the water spout fell onto her. Along the same lines they mention how Arkie men claim to this day to have seen pictures of their ship right side up on the ocean floor. The wreck is totally smashed flat, about the only thing you can recognize is two of her screws, some of the external keels along the bottom, and one of her secondary guns hanging upside down.

It's so easy for some young, well relatively young, punk like me to say, "nope it didn't happen that way" when I wasn't there. If I met an "older gentleman" who believes this is what he saw I HOPE I would have sense enough to keep my mouth shut and not try to insult him. Who knows, maybe the "boffins" who watched the films were wrong.

Howdy fellas,

O.K., the two of you guys quiet down! My bad, I didn't mean to light a fire about this. It's not that pivotal to anything in particular......
'nuff said, O.K.? Heck, I just thought I found some pretty kewl pics, that's all.
Speaking of cool pics. I really like yours warlock! I really like the fact that you can see both the ship itself AND the aircraft!...nice.
I also like the paintjob Big 'Mo' is sporting in the photograph.

Tread.

Besides, I was also just exercising my new found ability to post photos in the Forum's....now you guys are in trouble! :-)

No problem here, problem there Garry?

Tread:
Those aren't Aircraft in the pic I posted. Those are the 16 inch projectiles that were fired from the salvo.
Unless you referred to the projectiles as aircraft. then It my bad #:-)

Paul

No problemo hear Rodger. Tread, us kids were just havin fun! LOL, well we thinks we are kids anyway . Thats what counts!

Cheers,

Garry

No warlock, that was my bad. I thought they were incoming, my brain sometimes takes a vacation and doesn't tell me.
Now that I know what they really are, the picture is even more impressive!!

Tread.

Hey guys,

I found a pic of a Destroyer(?) doing an impression of a Submarine!



This would be the kind of thing that would peak my 'pucker' factor!

Tread.

That is one reason I joined the Army, and not the Navy!!!

That's what they made dramamine for. I was never in the military but if Viet Nam had lasted one more year, for American forces, I would have joined the navy. What's a little sea sickness if you can have a warm bed and hot food everyday.

He might have seen the ex-IJN Nagato. She was painted red for the exercise, and was the designated aiming point for the bomb drop at Bikini. She went up, turned turtle and went to the bottom in a rather used and abused condition.

Thats what you call "Taking it wet" forward. Quite often you have seas like that in the North Atlantic---I've seen pictures from some of the Lend-Lease convoys that went through when Winter was starting to blow in. Imagine a CVE with its flight deck pealed up from smacking into 100 foot seas half way back to the island! That's "pucker factor time." #:-)