Folks,
I built the original Revell PT-109 as a kid back in 1963. About 15 years ago, I purchased a “re-pop” of that kit, along with the complete White Ensign Models PE and 37mm gun, and a host of CMK 1/72 naval figures (designed for the 1/72 Revell Gato sub) With the intent of doing a water-line diorama of PT-109 at speed. The project never got off the “drawing board”. Last year, Revell AG (Revell Germany) announced and released their new 1/72 kit of PT-109 (RVGO5147). Recently, Revell USA also released what I believe to be the same kit (RMX850319). I went to order the newer Revell kit, only to learn it was out of stock at my favorite mail order site. However, they do have the Revell Germany release of a year ago. There’s about a $3 price difference, with the ROG kit being more expensive. I’m trying to ascertain if there are any differences in these two kits. What do the experts say?
VR, Russ
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Three 1/72 Revell Elco PT Boats— Differences?
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Model Shipwrights: 173 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 28, 2020 - 05:23 PM UTC
Quincannon
Joined: June 22, 2018
KitMaker: 275 posts
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Posted: Sunday, June 28, 2020 - 10:05 PM UTC
Not an expert. In fact I can only offer three observations.
1. The Revell repop 109 was a dog. My grandson built one while he visited me some few years ago, and he had all sorts of fit problems.
2. I know nothing about the Revell of Germany kit other than to say ROG kits are generally first rate, at least the ones I have built.
3 Contact Tim Connelly. He can probably tell you what he thinks of these two kits, and Tim has forgotten more about PT Boats and small craft in general than most people ever knew or ever will know. He literally wrote the book, several in fact. He is on this board.
1. The Revell repop 109 was a dog. My grandson built one while he visited me some few years ago, and he had all sorts of fit problems.
2. I know nothing about the Revell of Germany kit other than to say ROG kits are generally first rate, at least the ones I have built.
3 Contact Tim Connelly. He can probably tell you what he thinks of these two kits, and Tim has forgotten more about PT Boats and small craft in general than most people ever knew or ever will know. He literally wrote the book, several in fact. He is on this board.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Model Shipwrights: 173 posts
Posted: Monday, June 29, 2020 - 12:45 AM UTC
Actually, from the reviews online, I think all three kits are “dogs” to some degree, and last night I noted there’s even a fourth kit, with upgraded armament for a 1944 boat. But, I’m trying to get at the difference between the Revell, and ROG above, if there is any at all— which I’m inclined to believe there isn’t. Except maybe packaging. Just trying to verify that.
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
TimReynaga
Associate EditorJoined: May 03, 2006
KitMaker: 2,500 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,830 posts
Posted: Monday, June 29, 2020 - 02:18 AM UTC
Hi Russ,
My understanding is that the 1963 PT109 release, which has been reissued many times as PT109, PT167, PT117, etc., is completely different from the 2018 release of PT109 (RVGO5147 with the box art showing a Akizuki class destroyer in the background) and the PT579/PT588 released last year with alternate parts. I built the 1963 release years ago, and I can tell you the newer PTs are MUCH better - as you would expect from a kit 57 years newer.
Revell-Monogram has a habit of re-releasing old molds in new packaging; I'm not sure if they have reissued the 1963 kit again lately, but avoid 850310 as it is the 1963 kit. Just to be safe I'd go for any of the new Revell Germany releases to make sure I got the new mold kit!
My understanding is that the 1963 PT109 release, which has been reissued many times as PT109, PT167, PT117, etc., is completely different from the 2018 release of PT109 (RVGO5147 with the box art showing a Akizuki class destroyer in the background) and the PT579/PT588 released last year with alternate parts. I built the 1963 release years ago, and I can tell you the newer PTs are MUCH better - as you would expect from a kit 57 years newer.
Revell-Monogram has a habit of re-releasing old molds in new packaging; I'm not sure if they have reissued the 1963 kit again lately, but avoid 850310 as it is the 1963 kit. Just to be safe I'd go for any of the new Revell Germany releases to make sure I got the new mold kit!
TGarthConnelly
Joined: August 03, 2008
KitMaker: 875 posts
Model Shipwrights: 872 posts
Posted: Monday, June 29, 2020 - 02:25 AM UTC
The new one is MARGINALLY better than the earlier versions. But, Dr. Ross, Jeff D., and David Waples could address your questions better than I. Ask them.
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
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Posted: Monday, June 29, 2020 - 03:26 AM UTC
I have both the 1963 PT 109, as well as the current release. I would say the newer release is better than "MARGINALLY better", although ROG could have, and should have, done a better job compared with other current models from various companies. A case in point: although Merit's PT is 1/48, it is much better detailed and accurate! Any plastic Flyhawk kit (1/700) is state of the art with incredible detail and accuracy. ROG really doesn't have any excuses for taking shortcuts.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Model Shipwrights: 173 posts
Posted: Monday, June 29, 2020 - 03:29 AM UTC
Tim, Garth,
I’m very familiar with the 1963 release, and have one as I mentioned above. I’m also familiar with the recent (about a year ago) Revell Germany release, from the on-line reviews. But Revell just released a kit with similar box art from Revell USA. I’m making an assumption these are the same kit, just a different box, but there is a price difference. My question is is there any difference in the box contents between these two latest releases— Revell USA and Revell AG? I doubt it. The item descriptions are about the same, but is there any other difference in plastic, molding, decals or instructions? Did Revell make any corrections to the brand new Revell US kit that were different from the original 2019 RoG (Revell AG) release? Perhaps I’m asking the question too soon—maybe the Revell US kit hasn’t fully reached the market yet. As an aside, Paul Budzik has done a video review of the Revell AG 2019 PT 579/588 1944 version, attached here. It’s a good rundown of just some of the issues:
http://paulbudzik.com/models/revell-pt-588-579-build/revell-pt-578-588-build-review.html
But again, I’m trying to ascertain if there are any differences between the two recent Revell PT 109 releases, Revell AG and Revell USA.
VR, Russ
I’m very familiar with the 1963 release, and have one as I mentioned above. I’m also familiar with the recent (about a year ago) Revell Germany release, from the on-line reviews. But Revell just released a kit with similar box art from Revell USA. I’m making an assumption these are the same kit, just a different box, but there is a price difference. My question is is there any difference in the box contents between these two latest releases— Revell USA and Revell AG? I doubt it. The item descriptions are about the same, but is there any other difference in plastic, molding, decals or instructions? Did Revell make any corrections to the brand new Revell US kit that were different from the original 2019 RoG (Revell AG) release? Perhaps I’m asking the question too soon—maybe the Revell US kit hasn’t fully reached the market yet. As an aside, Paul Budzik has done a video review of the Revell AG 2019 PT 579/588 1944 version, attached here. It’s a good rundown of just some of the issues:
http://paulbudzik.com/models/revell-pt-588-579-build/revell-pt-578-588-build-review.html
But again, I’m trying to ascertain if there are any differences between the two recent Revell PT 109 releases, Revell AG and Revell USA.
VR, Russ
TimReynaga
Associate EditorJoined: May 03, 2006
KitMaker: 2,500 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,830 posts
Posted: Monday, June 29, 2020 - 03:37 AM UTC
RVGO5147 and RMX850319 are indeed the same plastic.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Model Shipwrights: 173 posts
Posted: Monday, June 29, 2020 - 03:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
RVGO5147 and RMX850319 are indeed the same plastic.
Just a different box? Same decals? Same instructions? No additions? So the price difference is “imported” vs “domestic”? Frankly, after looking at the reviews, I agree, this kit has lots of issues. But it’s the only “modern” “updated” 1/72 scale Elco boat around, and I guess the price is right. I think it’s wishful thinking on my part, but I was hoping Revell had corrected some of the issues in the RMX850319 release. Guess not?
VR, Russ
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Model Shipwrights: 833 posts
Posted: Monday, June 29, 2020 - 05:59 AM UTC
There's a lot of confusion and misconceptions about the first and last releases of this model. I have a recent release of the first PT 109. This is the one with planked deck. Mine is molded in green styrene. There is absolutely nothing in common with the new all new-tooled release. Even the hulls are different lengths - the original one is shorter by over an inch! The kit info on mine is: 85-0310, copywrite on mine 2004 on the instructions, and 2009 on the box. Re-popped in China.
The new new one is kit 05147-0379. Copywrite 2018. ROG. This is the one that is totally new and miles ahead of the above one, although, like I said, could have been better!
There is a third molding which probably dates from the mid-fifties (or earlier) which is a Higgins, and in an undetermined scale (somewhere around 1/144 scale). Has about 10 parts to it and is extremely simplified.
The new new one is kit 05147-0379. Copywrite 2018. ROG. This is the one that is totally new and miles ahead of the above one, although, like I said, could have been better!
There is a third molding which probably dates from the mid-fifties (or earlier) which is a Higgins, and in an undetermined scale (somewhere around 1/144 scale). Has about 10 parts to it and is extremely simplified.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Model Shipwrights: 173 posts
Posted: Monday, June 29, 2020 - 06:22 AM UTC
Quoted Text
There's a lot of confusion and misconceptions about the first and last releases of this model. I have a recent release of the first PT 109. This is the one with planked deck. Mine is molded in green styrene. There is absolutely nothing in common with the new all new-tooled release. Even the hulls are different lengths - the original one is shorter by over an inch! The kit info on mine is: 85-0310, copywrite on mine 2004 on the instructions, and 2009 on the box. Re-popped in China.
The new new one is kit 05147-0379. Copywrite 2018. ROG. This is the one that is totally new and miles ahead of the above one, although, like I said, could have been better!
There is a third molding which probably dates from the mid-fifties (or earlier) which is a Higgins, and in an undetermined scale (somewhere around 1/144 scale). Has about 10 parts to it and is extremely simplified.
Thanks, but I’m not confused by any of this. I’m aware of the original ‘63 release that’s been released in multiple boxing’s over the years. I’m also aware of the latest PT 579/588 issue, based on the RoG “new release you are speaking of. But there is a third, even newer release of the “new“ (2019– really December 2018) RoG PT 109 release, which was just released In 2020 by Revell US— box number RMX850319. I’m asking if there is anything different about it from the previous “new” RoG releases, Which is based on Revell AGs original box number RVG05147 (2018). What I’m after is to see if Revell US has corrected/improved any of the numerous mistakes of the RoG 2018/19 releases—in any way. These problems in the first “new” (as in 2018/19 kits) are well documented above by Paul Budzik. It was my hope some of these issues (and there are a lot of them) would have been corrected (especially sink marks, broken parts, misshapen parts) in this very latest issue. Just to be clear— there are now no less than three versions of the latest release: :1) the original “new” RoG PT-109 (2018) release; 2) an “up-gunned” 1944 version of the RoG kit released in 2019 (depicting PT-579/588); and finally, the Revell US PT 109 release of 2020– which is the kit I’m inquiring about. I take it no one really knows if there are any changes, corrections, improvements or additions?
VR, Russ
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Model Shipwrights: 833 posts
Posted: Monday, June 29, 2020 - 06:44 AM UTC
I would be surprised if there are any changes, and they're simply re-popping from the same molds. However, there are AM replacement parts available from Shapeways (if you like Shapeways' quality!) - ie; new .50's, torpedo tubes, etc. UM makes a very nicely detailed Oerlikon in styrene and PE, and there are turned brass aircraft style perforated barrels which are better than the 3D ones. Lots of bits available. Even a 1/72 crew.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Model Shipwrights: 173 posts
Posted: Monday, June 29, 2020 - 06:53 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I would be surprised if there are any changes, and they're simply re-popping from the same molds. However, there are AM replacement parts available from Shapeways (if you like Shapeways' quality!) - ie; new .50's, torpedo tubes, etc. UM makes a very nicely detailed Oerlikon in styrene and PE, and there are turned brass aircraft style perforated barrels which are better than the 3D ones. Lots of bits available. Even a 1/72 crew.
I have the complete and very comprehensive WEM set for PT 109, which provides incredible details, barrel jackets, weapons, even ammo, along with a host of other details. But the “real” issues like the poor hull chine, massive sink marks, poor fit, misalignment and rather thick parts are the issues I’m after here, and wonder if any have been fixed in this very latest release. I agree with those above who have said Revell could, and should, have done better with this kit. It is likely far above the 1963 kit, but the molding and engineering looks like an early ‘60s Aurora or ITC kit. I’m with Paul Budzik on this, and present this quote from him: “I’ve been waiting more than half a century...and finally got the kit I’ve been waiting for....or did I?”. That’s why I’m grasping at a straw here to find out if the latest release has any improvement at all.
VR, Russ
Robbd01
#323
Joined: February 13, 2013
KitMaker: 791 posts
Model Shipwrights: 59 posts
Posted: Monday, June 29, 2020 - 08:16 AM UTC
I have both the old Revell PT-109 kit (pic shows 109 on the forward Hull). Kit 85-0310. It is molded in green plastic, One piece hull and the deck has raised planking (apparently the real one the deck is smooth plywood sheets)
The new RoG kit (no. 05147) is molded in grey plastic. The hull is a split two piece affair and the deck is smooth.
From what little I know about the Elco boats I can tell you with confidence that that these two kits don't have anything in common except they represent PT-109.
Cheers
EDIT
I forgot to add the Scalemates' link to the Revell PT-109 lineage
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/revell-h-310-pt-109--138482
The new RoG kit (no. 05147) is molded in grey plastic. The hull is a split two piece affair and the deck is smooth.
From what little I know about the Elco boats I can tell you with confidence that that these two kits don't have anything in common except they represent PT-109.
Cheers
EDIT
I forgot to add the Scalemates' link to the Revell PT-109 lineage
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/revell-h-310-pt-109--138482
TGarthConnelly
Joined: August 03, 2008
KitMaker: 875 posts
Model Shipwrights: 872 posts
Posted: Monday, June 29, 2020 - 08:32 AM UTC
I believe both the 109 and 579 are from RoG. And, not from Revell USA. I could be, and probably am wrong. I'd urge you to ask Jeff D or David Waples inasmuch they could address the new kit's/kits' accuracies/inaccuracies better than I could.
RoG did send me a pre-production example of the new 109 kit and it's in the stash for Kyle Lord to build as PT-195 later in the war with a quad-.50 cal mount on her foredeck and all that good stuff.
RoG did send me a pre-production example of the new 109 kit and it's in the stash for Kyle Lord to build as PT-195 later in the war with a quad-.50 cal mount on her foredeck and all that good stuff.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Model Shipwrights: 173 posts
Posted: Monday, June 29, 2020 - 01:16 PM UTC
Guys, for some reason, either I’ve not been clear, or there’s a misunderstanding going on. Forget I even mentioned the old 1963 PT-109 with the cast wood planks. There are three “new issue” 1/72 PTs Since December 2018— And I believe Garth is right, the first two of these boats are offered by RoG—PT 109 from Revell of Germany, and the second, an up-gunned PT 579/588. But in the last few months, Revell US has also released a PT-109 with the word “NEW emblazoned in big red letters on the box top. The box art is very similar to the December 2018 RoG PT-109, but it has a different kit number. This “NEW” kit is the one I’m asking about. I’m wondering if it’s just a re-issue of the December 2018 RoG offering, or if it’s Truly a “new”, corrected item. Here’s a link to Sprue Brothers which recently (in the last week) had the “NEW” kit in stock for about a day before it sold out (just ignore the old 1963 kit at the top— it’s not part of the question, other than most of us have built it):
https://store.spruebrothers.com/searchresults.asp?searching=Y&sort=7&search=PT+109&show=90&page=1&brand=Revell
And their listing for the “different” RoG Offering:
https://store.spruebrothers.com/searchresults.asp?searching=Y&sort=7&search=Pt+109&show=90&page=1&brand=Revell%20Germany
Please note the difference in skill levels— a “5“ for the “NEW” US kit, and a “4“ for the RoG offering. Is this US version any better than the RoG version? Cleaned up maybe? Or has it been given a tougher rating because they found out it wasn’t that easy to build?
VR, Russ
https://store.spruebrothers.com/searchresults.asp?searching=Y&sort=7&search=PT+109&show=90&page=1&brand=Revell
And their listing for the “different” RoG Offering:
https://store.spruebrothers.com/searchresults.asp?searching=Y&sort=7&search=Pt+109&show=90&page=1&brand=Revell%20Germany
Please note the difference in skill levels— a “5“ for the “NEW” US kit, and a “4“ for the RoG offering. Is this US version any better than the RoG version? Cleaned up maybe? Or has it been given a tougher rating because they found out it wasn’t that easy to build?
VR, Russ
Grauwolf
#084
Joined: September 14, 2005
KitMaker: 2,485 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,157 posts
Posted: Monday, June 29, 2020 - 02:57 PM UTC
It is really strange that kit RMX850319 is being released under the RevellMonogram label as
these companies were owned by Hobbico which went belly up in 2018.
Some of the old US molds were taken over by Atlantis Models which are slowly re releasing kits but under
their own name brand.
Other molds remained with Revell USA which still operates but under the control of an international investment group.
There are 3 kits of the PT boat in 1:72 scale.
The old Revell & Revell Monogram 1963 release and re releases.
The recent ROG early(PT109)and the later(579/588)
The kit you link to RMX850319 is essentially the newer ROG PT 109...same kit but being
distributed by Revell USA.
Cheers,
these companies were owned by Hobbico which went belly up in 2018.
Some of the old US molds were taken over by Atlantis Models which are slowly re releasing kits but under
their own name brand.
Other molds remained with Revell USA which still operates but under the control of an international investment group.
There are 3 kits of the PT boat in 1:72 scale.
The old Revell & Revell Monogram 1963 release and re releases.
The recent ROG early(PT109)and the later(579/588)
The kit you link to RMX850319 is essentially the newer ROG PT 109...same kit but being
distributed by Revell USA.
Cheers,
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Model Shipwrights: 173 posts
Posted: Monday, June 29, 2020 - 05:10 PM UTC
Quoted Text
It is really strange that kit RMX850319 is being released under the RevellMonogram label as
these companies were owned by Hobbico which went belly up in 2018.
Some of the old US molds were taken over by Atlantis Models which are slowly re releasing kits but under
their own name brand.
Other molds remained with Revell USA which still operates but under the control of an international investment group.
There are 3 kits of the PT boat in 1:72 scale.
The old Revell & Revell Monogram 1963 release and re releases.
The recent ROG early(PT109)and the later(579/588)
The kit you link to RMX850319 is essentially the newer ROG PT 109...same kit but being
distributed by Revell USA.
Cheers,
Then there are four Revell 1/72 PT Boat kits, not three as you mention:
1) the 1963 oldie
2) the December 2018 RoG release
3) the 2019 1944 “gunboat” version by RoG
4) the Revell USA version (RMX) number.
It’s this last kit I’m asking about— I recognize it’s probably the same plastic as the RoG 2018 issue, the box top is certainly similar. But does anyone know if the errors in this “Newer” kit have been corrected? I can’t see Revell having two competing kits out there, without something being different—as you said, it’s really strange and it doesn’t make sense unless there are two sets of molds, or Revell of Germany is making the kits for the Revell US line, but I’m hoping there’s more to this “NEW” release than just the same crummy plastic and a “NEW” label on the box. What makes it “NEW”? There are lots of molding and engineering errors in the 2018 RoG kit, so if the Revell USA kit is truly “NEW”, with a higher difficulty rating than the RoG kit, It seems to me something should be different— what is that something? Or is it just false advertising?
VR, Russ
Grauwolf
#084
Joined: September 14, 2005
KitMaker: 2,485 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,157 posts
Posted: Monday, June 29, 2020 - 10:42 PM UTC
Hi Russ,
Yes, theoretically, there are 4 versions, if you count the the Revell USA as a separate version
but the ROG and USA versions are the same kit with a slightly different boxing.
Yes I agree that the "New" and Skill level 5 are somewhat misleading.
I have not seen this "NEW" kit and it is not even in the REVELL USA catalogue, only the old
1963 version is present.
The kit as described on the Sprue Bros. site, notably the parts count, decals and the content
description and same artwork and color instructions (a ROG trait) leads me to believe that it is
really the same kit intended for the USA market sort of to keep the REVELL USA name alive after all
REVELL is iconic to the USA.
I doubt that REVELL ROG would have made any corrections to the already existing ROG PT 109 just for
a re boxing intended for their USA distribution.
At least at this point in time, there is no evidence stating corrections to so called discrepancies.
I would not spend the extra money only to find out it is the exact same kit.
We will have to wait for a review to get that info 100% confirmed.
Cheers,
Yes, theoretically, there are 4 versions, if you count the the Revell USA as a separate version
but the ROG and USA versions are the same kit with a slightly different boxing.
Yes I agree that the "New" and Skill level 5 are somewhat misleading.
I have not seen this "NEW" kit and it is not even in the REVELL USA catalogue, only the old
1963 version is present.
The kit as described on the Sprue Bros. site, notably the parts count, decals and the content
description and same artwork and color instructions (a ROG trait) leads me to believe that it is
really the same kit intended for the USA market sort of to keep the REVELL USA name alive after all
REVELL is iconic to the USA.
I doubt that REVELL ROG would have made any corrections to the already existing ROG PT 109 just for
a re boxing intended for their USA distribution.
At least at this point in time, there is no evidence stating corrections to so called discrepancies.
I would not spend the extra money only to find out it is the exact same kit.
We will have to wait for a review to get that info 100% confirmed.
Cheers,
TGarthConnelly
Joined: August 03, 2008
KitMaker: 875 posts
Model Shipwrights: 872 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 - 02:00 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Russ,
Yes, theoretically, there are 4 versions, if you count the the Revell USA as a separate version
but the ROG and USA versions are the same kit with a slightly different boxing.
Yes I agree that the "New" and Skill level 5 are somewhat misleading.
I have not seen this "NEW" kit and it is not even in the REVELL USA catalogue, only the old
1963 version is present.
The kit as described on the Sprue Bros. site, notably the parts count, decals and the content
description and same artwork and color instructions (a ROG trait) leads me to believe that it is
really the same kit intended for the USA market sort of to keep the REVELL USA name alive after all
REVELL is iconic to the USA.
I doubt that REVELL ROG would have made any corrections to the already existing ROG PT 109 just for
a re boxing intended for their USA distribution.
At least at this point in time, there is no evidence stating corrections to so called discrepancies.
I would not spend the extra money only to find out it is the exact same kit.
We will have to wait for a review to get that info 100% confirmed.
Cheers,
I agree with Grauwulf, ... I have not seen or heard about this new third kit. All have known about and seen has been the RoG new kit of the 109 and the 579/588 kit.
But, then again, since February, more pressing matters like recovering from dying and enjoying more enjoyable things in my life (of a personal nature) have held my attention and interest. Sorry guys.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Model Shipwrights: 173 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 - 04:37 AM UTC
Thanks guys. Like I said before, I think this “NEW” Revell US kit is perhaps too “new” to understand if there are any differences between it and the RoG “New” kit. as an aside, the RoG kit is the more expensive of the two. I don’t know if that means anything at all. I suspect like you do, this Revell US version is a re-pop Of the RoG version. But I am hopeful Revell US has made some corrections on at least the heavy sink marks and some of the poor engineering of the original RoG release. I guess we’ll find out. After looking over the 1963 kit I already have, and the WEM PE sets (I’d also stuck away several Revell Flower Class “platinum edition” PE and brass 20mm guns, which are real beauties), I took the plunge last night and ordered the RoG kit. I might order the Revell US kit on a whim if it comes back in stock, just to see what it’s like. Thanks again for your input.
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
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