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General Ship Modeling
Discuss modeling techniques, experiences, and ship modeling in general.
Riverine Forces / Brown Water Navy
TreadHead
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Posted: Saturday, July 13, 2002 - 02:02 AM UTC
I have always been enthralled and impressed by this unique branch of the Navy. Quite like the GunTruck crews of the Transportation Battalions, these soldiers served in an almost 'created from scratch' type of warfare.
Originated by the French during the Indochina conflict, the U.S. Riverine Forces utilized an interesting fleet of shallow draft ships. All of these are great fodder for modeling.
My first question to the group is; do any of you also find the Riverine Forces interesting?
And second; have any of you modeled any of the craft?
Now, not being a big ship modeler, I will have to differ to the 'sailors' in the membership. I know Dragon makes the PBR, or'Pibber'. But most of the other craft would have to be scratchbuilt. They did use converted LCM's, LCVP's and the like. Would love to hear other's input here.

Tread.
Posted: Saturday, July 13, 2002 - 03:31 AM UTC
Tread,
The pibber is put out by Tamiya,and I believe theres a book on the brown water navy by
the same peop[le who put out the Armor in Vietnam books, Squadron had it listed.
But if my scratchbuilding skills were better I would love to build a model of the monitor,the converted landing craft ,had the turret in the front, Ithink it was a 40 mm bofors mounted in there? anyway lotas of interesting but way neglected subjects.
Kencelot
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Posted: Saturday, July 13, 2002 - 04:42 AM UTC
Indeed I am Tread! I just wish there were some injection kits on the subject. I always loved gunboats! I remember a long, long time ago building one. It could have been Lindberg. Of what exactly I do not recall. I do remember building PT's which are somewhat similar to PCF's or PBR's.
One day...maybe a kit will come along.



Here's a wonderful site from which the above poster was borrowed: The Modile Riverine Force Association
TUGA
#034
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Posted: Saturday, July 13, 2002 - 05:07 AM UTC
Hi TreadHead,

There have been a thread some time ago where have been made references to that kind of boats and some models available.
matt
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Posted: Saturday, July 13, 2002 - 05:14 AM UTC
Yes I find it very interesting.

I have both Tamiya's Pibber & DML's STAB


Matt
TreadHead
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Posted: Saturday, July 13, 2002 - 05:21 AM UTC
Thanks TUGA for the thread reminder. I re-read through the thread and apparently CARFACE states he has a 1/35th scale model of the 'monitor' class ship, from Viking Models.
I'll have to try and track either Viking or CARFACE down.
{b}You[/b], I think, reference the Dragon model I was confusing with the Tamiya kit. My mind-fart, sorry.

Thx again TUGA,

Tread.
TreadHead
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Posted: Saturday, July 13, 2002 - 05:33 AM UTC
Wow Kenc', many thx for the excellent link! Just browsed through it a little. Absolutely great material there. Will have to peruse it when I have a little more time.

Glad to hear you're a fan too! I don't suppose you've seen any of these things cruising up and down the Florida inland waterways have ya? From your post, I also don't suppose you've done any scratchbuiling either? In looking at the converted landing craft based ships it seems, at least for them, that the subject matter wouldn't be too hard to scratch....mostly flat surfaces for the most part.
Gee, if there were only 48 hours in the day.....and I didn't need to sleep at all....it would be a cake-walk!!

Tread.
TreadHead
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Posted: Saturday, July 13, 2002 - 05:37 AM UTC
Matt,

Yeah, I was thinking of the Seal craft, but my mind was seeing the Pibber...my failing.

So, you have both? Built or no?

Tread.

P.S. It's been awhile, but one of my brain synapses swears to me the I built an 'Apocolypse Now' model kit some time ago....maybe it's lying to me....I never know. #:-)
cfbush2000
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Posted: Saturday, July 13, 2002 - 07:32 AM UTC
Tread,
I have both the Pibber and the STAB, unbuilt,of course. I think the Pibber is the nicer kit.
I have been able to get three books on the subject:

Riverine : A pictorial history of the Brown Water War in Vietnam - Jim Mesko - Sq/Sig - 1985

The Vietnam Brown Water Navy : Riverine and Coastal Warfare 1965-69 - Gordon L. Rottman - Concord Publications - 1997

Both of the above a full of photos and color plates of Pibbers and other craft. If I had to choose I'd go with the Concord book.

Man of the River - SMC Jimmy R. Bryant, USN - Sergeant Kirklands - 1998
...is a first person account with a section of b/w photos taken by a member of the boat crew.
A very good read.



Sabot
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Posted: Saturday, July 13, 2002 - 07:41 AM UTC
Monogram put out several brown water boats from Vietnam. Among them were the amred Vietnamese Junk, the River Assault Group (RAG) boat, and the Swift Patrol Boat (PCF). All 3 were in 1/48 and the last two were reissued in the mid-90s. I still have the Swift Patrol Boat. The RAG also got reissued with the Rambo model set along with the UH-1B "Frog" with NVA decals.
Again, as far as modern kits, the Pibber by Tamiya (just traded one off) and Seal Team boat by DML were top-notch.

I have a book titled, "Riverine Force", volume 8 of the Illustrated History of the Vietnam War series by Bantam Books. Interesting read.
matt
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Posted: Saturday, July 13, 2002 - 09:52 AM UTC
Tread,

The Pibber is started. The stab hasn't been. SEALS regularly used both for water insertions.

Matt
CaptainJack
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Posted: Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 01:42 AM UTC
Tread Nimix does an excellent mMonitor (floting type) i have it started (what don't i have started!), I believe they are working on a hydroglisser, forgot the exact denomination, PACV or somthing or other.... There was an outstanding, I mean fabulous collection of articles in the French model book the Lorgnette. If you can read French, than missing this is like misssing Christmas, Seriously, great dstuff.

Jack Van Winkle
TreadHead
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Posted: Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 02:16 AM UTC
Many thx Capt. for the info. Do you have a web site for Nimix? I'd love to see a pic of the kit. :-)
Also, how many pesos would it run me, and do you think it's still available?

As to the ",,if you can read French," qoute. If I could do that I'd probably own every Steel Masters magazine!

Tread.

Why don't great magazines like Steel Masters and Armour Modeling offer English translated versions? It is the 'International Language' isn't it?
TreadHead
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Posted: Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 02:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Monogram put out several brown water boats from Vietnam. Among them were the amred Vietnamese Junk, the River Assault Group (RAG) boat, and the Swift Patrol Boat (PCF). All 3 were in 1/48 and the last two were reissued in the mid-90s. I still have the Swift Patrol Boat. The RAG also got reissued with the Rambo model set along with the UH-1B "Frog" with NVA decals.
Again, as far as modern kits, the Pibber by Tamiya (just traded one off) and Seal Team boat by DML were top-notch.

I have a book titled, "Riverine Force", volume 8 of the Illustrated History of the Vietnam War series by Bantam Books. Interesting read.



Sounds like a nice assortment Rob....shame they didn't all come in 1/35th scale, and were available today! :-)

Tread.
TreadHead
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Posted: Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 02:20 AM UTC
Charles,

A Big THANKS for the book references....I'll have to try a search for them at Amazon or somewhere. 'Man of the River' sounds particularly good.

Tread.
CaptainJack
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Posted: Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 02:36 AM UTC
Tread, I'll see what I can dig up for you, hold on stand by. The reason Steel et al. don't publish in english is that they tried it once, and got burnt. Furthermore the financial trade off didin't work out. Shame really, but I guess that's the way of the world, n'est pas?

Jack Steel

Man is he rapid, back before there was even a reply!!

Tread I have photos in my archives of the unpainted kit. I'll post them to you. As for the cost, I'll need to enquire. Cheers Jack and the beanstalk!!
TreadHead
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Posted: Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 10:38 PM UTC
Many Thx for the help Capt.!

Heyyyyyyy, hold the phone.....I've got a brilliant idea! Why don't YOU just translate the WHOLE magazine for me!?!?!?!........Whadaya say? #:-) #:-)

Sorry Capt., just kidding.

Tread.
GunTruck
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Posted: Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 10:45 PM UTC
I'm interested in them too Tread - as you can see others are too.

I have a PBR.31 Mk.II in the works too. I've got the NAVSHIPS manual on the boat. I'm scratchbuilding the Radio Deck and will probably do the engine compartment as well before I'm done.

Gunnie
Kencelot
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Posted: Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 10:51 PM UTC
HEY TREAD! Here's a site that just about covers all of it: The Vietnam Brownwater Navy Web Book
There's a couple of minuets worth of researching...yeah.
IN-COUNTRY
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Posted: Monday, July 15, 2002 - 02:15 AM UTC
[quote]Tread Nimix does an excellent mMonitor (floting type) i have it started (what don't i have started!), I believe they are working on a hydroglisser, forgot the exact denomination, PACV or somthing or other.... There was an outstanding, I mean fabulous collection of articles in the French model book the Lorgnette. If you can read French, than missing this is like misssing Christmas, Seriously, great dstuff.

Jack Van Winkle [/quote Jack, any clue to where I might pick up a copy of the book you mentioned
IN-COUNTRY
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Posted: Monday, July 15, 2002 - 02:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Tread Nimix does an excellent mMonitor (floting type) i have it started (what don't i have started!), I believe they are working on a hydroglisser, forgot the exact denomination, PACV or somthing or other.... There was an outstanding, I mean fabulous collection of articles in the French model book the Lorgnette. If you can read French, than missing this is like misssing Christmas, Seriously, great dstuff.

Jack Van Winkle

Jack, any idea where I could get a copy of the book you mentioned.
TreadHead
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Posted: Monday, July 15, 2002 - 08:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

HEY TREAD! Here's a site that just about covers all of it: The Vietnam Brownwater Navy Web Book
There's a couple of minuets worth of researching...yeah.





Holy Mackeral Kenc'!!!!!!.........I'm in awe of your fact finding abilities.....honestly. Thanks.

sometimes I can't take the pictures.
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