Hi friends,

I usually write to the diorama forum, as I like dioramas most. My new plan is to make an ancient diorama with a Greek Trireme of about 500 BC. and a group of Greek and Persian soldiers.

I already know about the Greek Trireres kit of Zvezda, which I find historically inaccurate. So, I am thinking about scratchbuilding a wooden trireme, but I can not find a good plan online.

So, if anyone know about a good source for a trireme plan, can he/she inform me about it?

Thank you very much!

Selam Cagin,
as a start point please see this;it can give some info about measurments to undersize for your scratchbuilt.
trireme
i am sure our Greek friends will help better

Having build the Zvezda kit i d say its not so much innacurate. Is a nother thing to want to scratchbuild your own. I agree with that effort , but know that this is plenty of work. I ll check and send u anything i can find

Costas

I just want to toss in a wild idea here.....

Well Maybe the Zvezda kit is not that accurate or maybe it is... I`m not this big a boat builder. but Can`t the Zvezda Trireme be used as the base for further scratchbuilding?
I think that would be far easier then scratch a complete boat from Wood.

As far as I have researched, the kit of Zvezda depicts a trireme in quite a different way than the profs of this subject restituted the ship. But, I have to say that it is not impossible to convert it into a better and more accurate ship, with all the research I have doneü, and an example I have seen. Check it out:

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/misc/sail/Triera-72-rm/rm-index.html

He has removed the post on the fore part of the deck and replaced it with the foremast, he added the rear canopy for the commander. But still, I think there are things to be corrected. I will write my opinions about these items, so that those who know about it can discuss:

1. The number of oarsman. It is 114 in this model, as far as I know it has to reach 170.

2. There are two rows of oars on the cantilevering side part of the deck, and single below it on the hull planking. I wonderit it has to be the opposite-one on the projection, two on the bottom hull.

3. The deck is totally covered with planks. I know the early triremes had no covering on top, making the crew vulnerable. The late models had the covering, but I wonder if it was covering the whole deck, or was it like the deck of the reconstructed trireme Olympias, with some part still open...

4. The ram part. I suppose it has to be a long one, so that when a ship rams its enemy, the ram crashes into the enemy ship, but the ownship remains intact. In Zvezda's model, the ram is placed directly on the hull, without any extra projection. Some pictures presented in the site Engin has sent illustrates what I mean, the ram is on a wooden projection. (Thank you, Engin, by the way. I have made a lot of research, but the information you sent is invaluable, because it clarifies many things.)

5. Not as important, but the rudders and the crew for the rudders. Did they have long handles, so that a single person can control both (this is the way they are generally restituted) or they have short handles for each one to be controlled by a seperate crew (the Zvezda restitution)? I am quite inclined to accept the former one...

6. The anchor... I know that the

I have researched some Ancient Greek paintings and pottery, to get some clues about these, but they are confusing.

I feel like I am going to get the Zvezda kit and modify it, but before modification, I have to make the above things more clear.

Thanks to all those who tried to help, I appreciate it.

Sorry, No.6 is incomplete in my previous post. I was saying that I know Roman ships used anchors quite similar to our ships of today, in terms of form, but stone blocks, which look like column capitals were used for anchoring Greek triremes. This is an information I got from my researches, and I need some confirmation.

Thanks again.

for greek trireme plans i'm guessing that you should check the greek navy's website, or the greek marine exploration association. I heard that once the Greek navy had built a greek trireme to study how they went so fast. I don't have the links but I have heard of such a project. After this it should be a simple step of scaling it down and checking if your model matches up/scratchbuilding it.

I found some sites but they are all in Greek. http://gym-platan.chan.sch.gr/pw/persianwars/sal2/text_trirene.htm
http://www.atm.ox.ac.uk/rowing/trireme/
http://www.maritimemuseum.gr/mtmtrireme.htm
and also try the Google search in Greek.
http://www.google.com.gr/search?q=%CF%84%CF%81%CE%B9%CE%AE%CF%81%CE%B7%CF%82&hl=el&lr=&cr=countryGR&start=0&sa=N
I know they are in Greek but hope they help.

Spectre and SnakeEye,

Thanks for the recommendations. I checked them and found quite a lot of information. It is a pity that almost all sites are in Greek, but the graphic information is quite enough to make a good restitution.

I will rwite back with my decision.

Thanks a lot to everyone.

selam Çağın,
Online Greek Translator can help you on translating some texts to English.

Hi again,

I no longer need any plans, because I bought the Greek Triera of Zvezda, which I will modify a little. I will use it in a diorama, and I have posted a message to the diorama forum, which you can see here:

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/40191&page=1

Thank you vey much for yur help.

Regards.

Hi Cargin,

from what I've learned about triremes they only had one mast and one sail. The mast was laid down when entering combat.
There where two people on each of the upper two rows of oars and one on the lower row.. You're right, the deck was only covered about 1/3 along the centerline, leaving the oarsmen unprotected from above. Remember also that "Greek Marines" didn't wear bronze armor (except helmets); for some reason they prefered lighter stuff. If your boat just serves as a troop carrier for common hoplites, the men you've choosen will match perfectly.
Traditionally, only officers had these "bushes" of horse hair or feathers on their helmets.

Good luck (and a lot of fun) with your efforts, I expect a fantastic dio

Frank

Excuse me, your name is Cagin, not Cargin

Just like to add to this...they did not wear the heavy armor, from what I remeber, because it would increase the chances of them drowning if they fell in the water.

Can't wait to see some progress pics, I have the smaller Roman version of this kit, so I am really interested in the methods you use.

Sean

Just like to add to this...they did not wear the heavy armor, from what I remeber, because it would increase the chances of them drowning if they fell in the water.

That's what I intended to say, but I have been missing the right word (drowning) early on monday morning ...

Frank

Ha, Don't worry, my mondays are usually like that too.

Sean

My tuesdays do not make any difference, too, nor my fridays...

I am a sleep-all-the-time kinda guy, I suppose...

Triremes keep me awake, though

Hi I have been looking for plans for a Trireme, for a long time. I found a Time Life book, the seafarers series, titled The Ancient Mariners, it has some great line drawings of aTrireme. I am makeing my own plans, from the drawings and some info. on the net. Nick

Bare in mind that there aren't any surviving plans per say for any of these ships, so all the models built so far, be for museums or model companies are based on descriptions and opinions expressed by antiquity historians mostly.The measurements given in those accounts are always a bit sketchy at best .So even though i understand your frustration at the ''inaccuracy'' of the Zveda kit, whos to say that any plans devised at a much later date by archaeologists are in fact accurate .They are probably close to truth, but i doubt they will ever much exact measurements like beam,length,etc of the real ship.So in other words this is a grey area and one i think has some room to improvise and compromise as no one can tell for sure what is acceptable or not. Even if you find ''official'' plans , they will only be the plans accepted as official by us today ,but probably not 100% corresponding to truth anyway.

Anyway good luck , but in dios like yours i look forward more about the artistic implementation of the various elements into the dio, than the exact measurements.