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Trumpeter 1/350 HMS Dreadnought 1907
wbill76
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Posted: Sunday, August 03, 2014 - 06:03 AM UTC
First off let me admit that I'm not an experienced ship builder...I've built exactly one 1/350 ship in the last 10 years in fact, Dragon's Z-38. Having said that, I do have a love of naval history and its role in shaping world events and no ship embodies that more than HMS Dreadnought. Trumpeter recently released a kit for her in the 1907 configuration when she was launched so that, in combination with the WWI centenary, gave me the spark of inspiration to take this one on. The kit alone has over 600 parts including some that are only PE but still needs some help in other areas, so I'll be using the available Eduard detailing and railings sets to help deal with that, some aluminum/brass barrels from Master for the armament, and wood decking courtesy of Wood Hunter. I've also got the Kagero 3D book as a helpful reference to keep me from wandering too far off.



No idea how long this will take as a project but will be diving in full speed ahead shortly!
Gremlin56
Joined: October 30, 2005
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Posted: Sunday, August 03, 2014 - 06:18 AM UTC
Bill? Bill Plunk? Here?
Welcome aboard Bill, That's an interesting project you have lined up.
wbill76
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Posted: Sunday, August 03, 2014 - 06:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Bill? Bill Plunk? Here?
Welcome aboard Bill, That's an interesting project you have lined up.



I know! Hard to believe, eh? Wish me luck, god help me I'm even contemplating rigging this thing.
Gremlin56
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Posted: Sunday, August 03, 2014 - 06:48 AM UTC
Nice to see you again. You will have a ball here
wbill76
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Posted: Sunday, August 03, 2014 - 07:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Nice to see you again. You will have a ball here



Thanks Julian, I admit that I'm excited to be striking out into some uncharted territory with this one. Looking forward to it!
RedDuster
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Posted: Sunday, August 03, 2014 - 09:17 AM UTC
Hi Bill,

Have fun, she is a great ship.

Si
wbill76
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Posted: Sunday, August 03, 2014 - 09:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Bill,

Have fun, she is a great ship.

Si



Thanks Si! Had a chance to look through your build with the Zvezda kit as well in terms of picking up some pointers on the details.
Cosimodo
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Posted: Sunday, August 03, 2014 - 12:37 PM UTC
Hi Bill,
I certainly enjoyed this kit. It fits together pretty well. The Kagero book is very useful in clarifying some of the Trumpeter instructions and you definitely need the replacement barrels for main guns. The one's in the kit are the wrong shape.

cheers
Michael
wbill76
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Posted: Sunday, August 03, 2014 - 01:24 PM UTC
Thanks for the encouragement Michael!

I've been browsing through the instructions and looking at the various Eduard PE and kit-supplied sets as well to see where it all interacts. Should be a lot of fun puzzle-piecing it all together between the different elements. I can already see where the Kagero book is going to be helpful as a companion to the Trumpeter instructions...some of the placements of different detail items in particular as well as the boats and other goodies.

I thought the kit barrels looked a little strange...looks like Trumpeter altered their shape to provide a means for installing them into the turret as separate barrels so they could slide mold them perhaps?
Littorio
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Posted: Monday, August 04, 2014 - 12:39 AM UTC
Bill I'll be following your build with interest as I just pick this kit up over the weekend. I'll not however be ready to build her for sometime.
wbill76
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Posted: Monday, August 04, 2014 - 05:58 AM UTC
Thanks for the interest Luciano, will do my best as I move along through it and ID any pitfalls where possible, I can already see a couple, like the funnel PE stuff, that will be very delicate to work with and will have to be handled accordingly I'm sure!
RedDuster
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Posted: Monday, August 04, 2014 - 06:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hi Bill,

Have fun, she is a great ship.

Si



Thanks Si! Had a chance to look through your build with the Zvezda kit as well in terms of picking up some pointers on the details.



Cheers Bill,

The best pointer is get the Kagero 3D book on Dreadnought, really helpful in how the detail fits in.

Si
Gremlin56
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Posted: Monday, August 04, 2014 - 06:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hi Bill,

Have fun, she is a great ship.

Si



Thanks Si! Had a chance to look through your build with the Zvezda kit as well in terms of picking up some pointers on the details.



Cheers Bill,

The best pointer is get the Kagero 3D book on Dreadnought, really helpful in how the detail fits in.

Si



Er, review here:

http://modelshipwrights.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=9301

wbill76
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Posted: Monday, August 04, 2014 - 06:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Cheers Bill,

The best pointer is get the Kagero 3D book on Dreadnought, really helpful in how the detail fits in.

Si



That seems to be a good consensus from what I've gathered in terms of a 'must have' reference and I ordered it at the same time as all the other stuff for the project.

Unfortunately UPS decided to play football with the box and subject it to some extreme weather as a bonus before delivering it to my door . When it arrived, the box was caved in on one end with water damage and, of course, the only thing vulnerable in the box was the book and it was a mess. Everything else was just fine. Fortunately the great folks at Freetimehobbies where I ordered from are sending out a replacement so as soon as I have it, will no doubt be poring over it in great detail!
wbill76
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Posted: Monday, August 04, 2014 - 01:22 PM UTC
Dreadnought project took its first steps today in terms of getting the hull together. The first step in the Trumpeter instructions assembles the two-part full hull along with 7 internal braces to stiffen the hull and also provide some support for the main deck. I had heard about other builders having issues with a gap in the hull join particularly in the middle, so I did a test fit first to see how things would play together.



What I noticed was that the hull fit together very well at the bow and stern and only in the middle was there a slight gap. I also noticed that the braces had a very tight friction fit except for the smaller bow/stern braces into their mounting holes. I used some strips of masking tape along the bottom of the hull and then positioned each of the braces, squeezing in from the sides so that they would close up evenly. Once I did that, the slight gap in the bottom virtually disappeared and what remained could be closed up with some strategic pressure and rubber bands. I applied some liquid glue at the bow and stern first and used finger pressure to close those up until they set so I had a solid place to start from.

Then to avoid any problems with the hull potentially warping at the top while I worked on the bottom, I used the main deck insert to help it hold its position and taped it down, then added two rubber bands to help wit the small gap on the bottom.



Starting at the bow and working my way back, I applied liquid glue in small sections and gently squeezed the hull together in combination with the rubber bands until the glue 'grabbed', then moved further down the seam repeating the process.



After the glue had set, the rubber bands came off and some light sanding of the seam using sanding sticks was all that was needed. I did need to apply just a small amount of putty around the propeller shaft area of the seam on the stern. This was due to a slight gap created when I removed the sprue connection point there though and not something inherent in the kit.



Last but not least, I knocked together the kit-supplied stand so I could have something to rest the hull on. I'm not too thrilled with it as a permanent base but it will serve for now.



The main deck insert sits flush with the hull top edge so I can already tell that when I add the wood decking it will increase the deck height ever so slightly. I think that's actually going to be to my advantage though in terms of helping provide just a smidge of added contact surface for the railings but have to see about that when the time comes.
wbill76
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Posted: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 - 12:09 PM UTC
Day 2 of the Dreadnought project saw the main deck get installed permanently in place. Overall the fit of the deck is quite good with just a little bit of pressure needed at the top sides in a couple of spots. I used liquid glue and some strategically placed rubber bands to hold it all together while the glue set.



While that was going on I turned my attention to the main guns and turrets. The kit-provided barrels have the blast bags molded on and depends on those as the contact points for the barrels to be installed. The blast bags weren't fitted in 1907 and my Master replacement barrels are the correct shape and length but have the standard pins on their bases...but there's nothing to actually attach them to. Fortunately the kit provides 6 turrets on the sprues so I decided on a little test first.

I took some Aves epoxy-sculpt and mixed together a small amount to provide the means to mount the barrels. The trick here is that the replacement barrels need to have some of their bases inside the turret to be the right length but getting that right with both barrels can be tricky. Fortunately the Kagero book includes scale drawings with a top down plan view included, so I used that as my guide on how far the barrels should extend. The Aves is a two-part epoxy putty that will dry hard as a rock once it cures but has a good bit of work time, just the right amount of flexibility needed in this circumstance.



The base of the turret was added once I was sure I had the length and placement correct, but not glued in place. Adding the base caused the barrels to change their position and elevation just a bit due to the nature of the turret design and the general alignment.



Just to be sure I had things lined up correctly, I placed the turret in the A mount on the super deck and used a wooden toothpick balanced on one of the sky lights to ensure the gun barrels would hold the proper elevation while the Aves set up.



I'll leave that overnight to see if the experiment was a success...if it is, then I'll repeat it with the other 4 turrets needed and go from there. Fingers crossed!
Cosimodo
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Posted: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 - 01:14 PM UTC
Hi Bill,
It is looking good.
Another way to treat the Master barrels is to take a short piece of fat sprue, drill two holes and fix the barrel attachment points. That way when you adjust the barrels they move in parallel and stay fixed in separation as well. It worked for me but then I didn't think of the expoxy sculpt solution!

cheers
Michael
wbill76
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Posted: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 - 03:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Bill,
It is looking good.
Another way to treat the Master barrels is to take a short piece of fat sprue, drill two holes and fix the barrel attachment points. That way when you adjust the barrels they move in parallel and stay fixed in separation as well. It worked for me but then I didn't think of the expoxy sculpt solution!

cheers
Michael



That's a good option as well Michael! I had considered going that route too but decided to test out the epoxy sculpt to see how it would do.

I can see advantages/disadvantages to both methods...the epoxy sculpt seems to give a little more flexibility in getting the barrels lined up just right with each other but has the downside of needing to sit for a while before it hardens enough to avoid gravity causing the barrels to droop since they extend so far out from the turret. Hence the toothpick brace solution. Keeping the barrels properly separated is also a bit of a challenge, I'll compare it with the sprue approach today and see which one I like better for the remaining turrets.

Will continue to play with the turrets today, the test turret came out very nice with the barrels set nice and solid, so we'll see which one wins out for the rest.
RedDuster
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Posted: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 - 07:37 AM UTC
Great start Bill,

Interesting method with the main gun barrels, looks a good idea.

Si
wbill76
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Posted: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 - 12:50 PM UTC
Thanks Si!

Decided to opt for a 'best of both worlds' approach incorporating Michael's sprue suggestion after examining the first turret and trying to see how best to handle the remaining 4 turrets.

I realized that one of the limitations of my first approach was ensuring the gun separation and alignment between the two barrels stayed the same while the Aves set up. I thought about constructing a jig or support for the barrels outside the turret to help with that and then opted instead to use Michael's suggestion of a piece of sprue inside the turret.

So back to the Kagero scale drawings I went, used some small pieces of blue tack to hold the barrels in place over the drawings, and then marked a section of sprue at the correct width. Drilled out two holes and then test fit the barrels and the sprue piece inside the turret to make sure it would all fit and line up correctly with the barrels at the right length.



Process was repeated 3 times for the remaining four turrets to get their little supports and then CA gel used to permanently secure the barrels to the sprue chunk.



When I test fit the barrels with the turret bottoms and in the mounts on the hull, there was still too much play in the barrels, so I solved that issue by adapting my first test approach and using some more Aves epoxy sculpt to secure the bases.



This combo did the trick nicely while still allowing for some minor height adjustments with the different turrets. The turrets were placed and no toothpicks were needed this time around.





Still a lot more to do in terms of detailing the turrets but the guns themselves are now securely installed. One of those details is the 12pdr guns, so I started work on those. Clipped off the styrene barrel at the appropriate point and drilled a mount hole with a #78 micro drill and used CA gel to secure the Master brass barrel to the breech. There's 27 of these (not all are mounted, so I'll have a few spares just in case), so this will take a little time to get them all done.

RedDuster
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Posted: Thursday, August 07, 2014 - 07:26 AM UTC
Nice work with the 12pdr Bill, I know they are tricky to get just right.

Si
wbill76
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Posted: Thursday, August 07, 2014 - 12:03 PM UTC
Thanks Si! Managed to get all 27 of the 12pdrs built and ready for use without going blind...but only just!

The Trumpeter instructions incorrectly tell you to install 29 of them (and provide 32 in total on the sprues), but the two port-side bow guns that are called for in Step 12 weren't installed on the actual ship, so that's something for the unwary to watch out for.



The rest of the day was spent prepping the main deck and super deck for the Wood Hunter set. I wanted to see how the set would fit and also get a handle on what could be installed prior to painting and what would have to wait until after the decks were added. The main deck is a snug fit in all respects and has the wood go right up to the outline for the super deck, so I'll have to trim that back slightly so the super deck can sit at the proper height and alignment.



The rear deck area had a snug fit as well and the Eduard upgrade parts for some of the hatches and other elements are slightly wider than the kit's molded on versions, so that would've been a complication if I'd installed them first before the deck, so those will have to come after where appropriate.



The super deck's insert is all one piece, so that means it's going to have to be installed first and then the enclosed faces of the superstructure portion added after.



All in all I'm impressed with the deck so far, very little in the way of modifications appear to be needed to make it work, at least for the main parts.
wbill76
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Posted: Friday, August 08, 2014 - 01:14 PM UTC
Not a huge update today but still managed some progress. After studying the instructions and doing some test fits with the front of the superstructure parts (C4, C5, and B42 in Step 4) and the bases of the funnels (A16 and A19) and the boat deck (C30), I decided to split the wood deck insert into two pieces for better handling and fit arrangement. The wood deck needed some trimming around the base of the rear funnel as well as the small blockhouse structure at the front of the interior compartment, but otherwise everything else fit like it should. The funnel and boat deck bases are only dry-fit but the front of the superstructure was permanently installed in place to make it easier to paint this area later on.



One of the things I noticed while working on the bow area was that you could see straight through the hawseholes from one side to the other. To fix that, I cut a strip of white styrene and glued it in place to blank off one set from the other.



The moment of truth had arrived, time to secure the super deck in place. Overall the fit was good except at the angled area where it joined the bow. Both sides needed some putty and sanding work with the starboard side needing more due to a larger gap.





I deliberately left off the top part of the aft superstructure, part A20, as it makes it harder to install the wood deck as well as the pair of 12pdr guns that go in that spot, so it will end up getting painted separately and installed later when the time comes. Not sure how much further I'll go before painting the first round of stuff...I'm thinking of doing it in two phases with the hull going first and then dealing with the turrets and superstructure components second to break things up a bit.
RedDuster
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Posted: Friday, August 08, 2014 - 08:38 PM UTC
Hi Bill,

good work on the 12 pdrs, it was a good job I didn't need all of mine! messed a couple up.

The wood deck looks a good fit. It will really lift the build, the colour looks better than the Pontos deck I used.

Great stuff

Si
Cosimodo
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Posted: Friday, August 08, 2014 - 08:48 PM UTC
Hi Bill,
The deck is looking good. I haven't heard of Wood Hunter before, I will have to check them out. I didn't notice the "look through" on the hawse holes till to late but once you run chains through them it's not too noticeable.
Cheers
Michael