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Takom rubber tyres
Hohenstaufen
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Posted: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 - 08:21 AM UTC
I'm currently working on Takom's Fries Strabokran and their Hanomag SS100. Both kits have rubbery tyres on, the kind a lot of modellers on here hate. I've never really had any issues with these tyres, but I'm now at the painting stage and the tyres won't dry matt. I've used Humbrol 67 (Tank Grey) on them and even though it has dried perfectly matt on the styrene tyres of a Tamiya Jagdpanther, they keep coming up gloss on the Takom tyres. In fact it would appear that when I sprayed the base coat Dunkelgelb, it also dried glossy on the tyres. Any suggestions? I accept I'm going to have to try and work the tyres off and clean them and start again as the detail is disappearing under the coats of paint.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 - 08:38 AM UTC
The stuff (chemicals) that make the tyres soft is probably affecting the chemistry in the paint.

Maybe if you could find a paint that could act as a barrier between the tyres and the paint and not attack the tyres then it might work. Maybe some kind of car lacquer primer ... You could run out of tyres while testing though ....
I assume that the Dunkelgelb and the Dark grey are both Humbrol?
Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 - 10:34 AM UTC
I would stay away from any solvent based enamel paint. I’ve been working on TAKOMs 1/72 M1070 &M1001 HET, and all the tires (there’s 29 of them for this model!!!) are made of this same type of vinyl (at least I think that’s what it is, I hope in my heart that’s what it is anyway, and not the material found in the dreaded “DS” tires in Dragon kits). I’ve been reading a few build reviews of the HET kit, and most of them are using Vallejo or AV acrylic paint to paint the tires, and their mounting wheels. That’s what I intend to do. You could also buff them up with some sandpaper, and just give them a light dusting rather than a full coat of paint. I plan on doing that, then dusting them with tan Stynlrz primer, finally giving them a light oil wash in the tread. The wheel hubs will be painted with AV Russian Green primer (because that’s what I have on hand) and a coat of Vallejo olive green. I’m going to stay away from all enamel and lacquer paints, as these contain solvents which may attack the vinyl. I suppose it would just be best to replace ALL tires of this type with plastic or resin replacements. I think I understand why manufacturers insist on including this type of tire in kits, but I still don’t comprehend in this day and age why we’re still finding them in kits. Rubber and vinyl will always eventually deteriorate over time, although I have some produced in 1959 that look as good as the day they were manufactured. But I’ve seen some that cracked or turned to rubbery goop or just disintegrated into powder in months.
VR, Russ
Hohenstaufen
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Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 12:59 AM UTC
Robin, yes both are Humbrol. I'm still old school and using enamels. I don't own any other kind of paint. I've stripped the paint off now with white spirit, it just fell off. Maybe there is a parting compound in the tyres. If so my treatment should have done for it! I shall try a sample one and see what happens...
varanusk
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 01:34 AM UTC
Did you clean them with water and soap before painting? They may have residues of releasing agent or grease.
Hohenstaufen
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Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 08:03 AM UTC
Did you clean them with water and soap before painting? They may have residues of releasing agent or grease.

No Carlos I didn't - that'll teach me eh? I've stripped off the paint and tried again, however with the paint on the sample looks no better than the well cleaned and wire brushed unpainted ones. So I will put them on as they are and weather with MIG powders. Only problem is my dusting spray, I'll have to mask them off for that. The strange thing is that I had no problem whatsoever with similar tyres on the Tamiya FAMO, still on the shelf having been made 20 years ago and I have other vehicles of similar age which seem to have survived OK. Something to watch out for in future.
petbat
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Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 08:54 AM UTC
A lot of guys just scuff the Takom tyres with a nylon scourer to take off the natural shine, then use pigments to weather them. As long as there is paint on the rim, the 'rubber' should not react with the styrene,
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 08:58 AM UTC
I had problems with Tamiyas LRDG Chevy,
the tyres where cracking and splitting
before I even got them on the rims.

Nowadays all the soft stuff gets replaced,
not taking any chances on having to replace
them when the kit is in the display case.
Once bitten, twice shy and all that.
I will not put my trust in rubber again ...
/ Robin
barkingdigger
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Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 10:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The strange thing is that I had no problem whatsoever with similar tyres on the Tamiya FAMO, still on the shelf having been made 20 years ago and I have other vehicles of similar age which seem to have survived OK. Something to watch out for in future.



Not all "rubber" is the same - the old Tamiya vinyl was very stable, but these days everyone is doing weird glue-able mixes that aren't as inert. I made the mistake of spraying rattlecan enamel on the glue-able tracks of my Emhar Whippet and those suckers were tacky for weeks!

[EDIT: Oops! Meant to say "enamel" rather than acrylic for my Emhar disaster...]
Namabiiru
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Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 11:27 PM UTC
I have the Takom V2/SS100/Meillerwagen and am very reluctant to use the vinyl tires. I've never had much success getting paint to stick, and even though I've yet to have any tires deteriorate, I have had vinyl tracks do it.

jon_a_its
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2020 - 04:45 AM UTC
vinyl tyres, old school:

Put a barrier between the tyre & hub/rim, silver foil tape, paint or acrylic varnish.
Then paint acrylic varnish on the tyre, Future will do.
Then paint with acrylic paint, Tamiya or Vallejo do a nice tyre black.

Scuffing them up with 3M pot scrubbers, or fine brass suede brush is also an option.

Using Enamel, or more specifically enamel/lacquer/cellulose thinner accelerates them falling apart.

Or replace with resin aftermarket.
petbat
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2020 - 08:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I had problems with Tamiyas LRDG Chevy, the tyres where cracking and splitting before I even got them on the rims.

/ Robin



You and every modeller I know that has the kit. I built mine when it was first released (waaay baaack) and within 12 months the tyres had split. I believe later re-issues have been no better. TMD came to the rescue when they started selling their resin ones and must have made a mint!
Kevlar06
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2020 - 10:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text

vinyl tyres, old school:

Put a barrier between the tyre & hub/rim, silver foil tape, paint or acrylic varnish.
Then paint acrylic varnish on the tyre, Future will do.
Then paint with acrylic paint, Tamiya or Vallejo do a nice tyre black.

Scuffing them up with 3M pot scrubbers, or fine brass suede brush is also an option.

Using Enamel, or more specifically enamel/lacquer/cellulose thinner accelerates them falling apart.

Or replace with resin aftermarket.



Just a caution here. Tamiya paints are generally of the Acrylic Lacquer types, not true “acrylic” paints. They have a carrier that is made of acrylic lacquer based chemicals, read the warning labels on the side of the bottle. Don’t accept they are “water based” just on the word “Acrylic” in their description, and the fact some folks use water to thin and clean them. The paint on your car is also an Acrylic Lacquer, and applied with a mask and special thinners. Therefore, don’t also assume Tamiya won’t have an effect on vinyl or rubber tires. You are better off with acrylics by Vallejo, AV, MiG, Testors, Pactra, or others. As for me, the effort to “buff up” 29 1/72 scale tires is a bit much. I’ll probably buff up the treads, and use an acrylic resin primer for a light dusting.
VR, Russ