login   |    register
Armor/AFV: British Armor
Discuss all types of British Armor of all eras.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Churchill Tank - Stowage
G-man69
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: October 17, 2017
KitMaker: 775 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 01, 2020 - 03:48 AM UTC
Hi all,

I want to add a reasonable amount of stowage to a 1/35th Tamiya Churchill Mk. VII tank I'm modelling and was looking for some decent images of an actual Churchill tank loaded up.

There are plenty of images of models built up and stowage added, with a lot of gear positioned on the rear engine deck, exactly where the exhaust is located.

In reality would this happen? My thoughts would be that boxes, oil/fuel cans and cloth material located around the exhaust would have constituted a fire hazard.

Any thoughts? All comments appreciated.

Cheers, ,

G
Grauwolf
#084
Visit this Community
Quebec, Canada
Joined: September 14, 2005
KitMaker: 2,445 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,148 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 01, 2020 - 04:50 AM UTC
Some pics showing Churchill stowage on hull and turret.

Scroll down to 10th and 11th pics.

https://mikesresearch.com/2019/05/26/churchill-tank-briton/
G-man69
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: October 17, 2017
KitMaker: 775 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 01, 2020 - 05:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Some pics showing Churchill stowage on hull and turret.

Scroll down to 10th and 11th pics.



Hi Joe,

Thanks for the link, it gives me some good ideas for stowage on the turret and mud/track guards, much appreciated.

And it looks, in one image, as if the engine deck and exhaust has been left relatively clutter free.

Cheers, ,

G
RLlockie
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: September 06, 2013
KitMaker: 1,049 posts
Model Shipwrights: 22 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 01, 2020 - 05:26 AM UTC
As a general rule, in combat crews prefer to keep the turret free to rotate, periscopes clear to see through and air intakes and exhausts free to pass air as designed.

Fortunately there are plenty of pics online of Churchills (I downloaded dozens recently from the IWM site) to give you an idea of what was done, when and by which units.

Reusing discarded metal ammo boxes was common but make sure you use wartime designs, not those for 120mm tank rounds, for example.
BootsDMS
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 911 posts
Model Shipwrights: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 01, 2020 - 05:51 AM UTC
Hi Gareth,

Some sound advice already here; the key I feel is to look for examples of the real thing. That's not to disparage anyone else's models but you can't get better than the actual imagery from the time. After all, you don't wish to undertake the equivalent of red and white poles on the side of a Jagdtiger!

Keep it up Gareth, Churchill and scenery all looking outstanding.

Brian
Kevlar06
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,524 posts
Model Shipwrights: 159 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 01, 2020 - 05:59 AM UTC
Not a big Churchill fan, And not an “expert” by any means, but I am a Crocodile fan, having scratchbuilt an interior for my Tamiya Crocodile, which subsequently earned a 1st place award for closed top tracked armored vehicles at a local IPMS show several years ago. We also have a Crocodile at our local Flying Heritage and Combat Armor Museum, owned by the late Paul Allen. Sadly the FHCAM Museum is now closed, with no information on re-opening, if any. But I did a lot of “Churchill” research when building my Crocodile.

My reason for interjecting in this conversation is to clarify the purpose of the removed fenders adjacent to the turret. These were removed by the crews, because they had a tendency to buckle when hit with a round, and would fold up and jam the turret. As far as external stowage, Churchill crews seem to have kept stowage at a minimum, to keep the vehicle ready for action. Mostly on the rear fenders rather than engine deck, and there are two “flimsy” racks on the lower rear fenders, which were also used to carry cargo. The Crocodile trailer roof was used occasionally for stowage, especially for tarps and fuel related items. The Tamiya kit is a late Mk VII, a type that did not see a lot of action in 1944, except for the Crocodile. The earlier Mark AFV club kit is probably best suited to depict Churchills in France in 1944 (other than Crocodiles).

Just another note, the Fruil Mk VII track set is fabulous (but expensive), and will really lend a touch of realism to any Mk VII build. Removing the fenders around the turret is quite an undertaking on the Tamiya kit, as it will expose the empty interior, you’ll have to do some surgery with sheet styrene to patch up the holes, but it’s worth it, and will build into a unique model. Check the internet for photos, as I recall, there’s a “Churchill” web site dedicated specifically to the tank, with lots of photos, but I can’t recall the name.
VR, Russ
G-man69
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: October 17, 2017
KitMaker: 775 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1 posts
Posted: Friday, July 03, 2020 - 12:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

As a general rule, in combat crews prefer to keep the turret free to rotate, periscopes clear to see through and air intakes and exhausts free to pass air as designed.

Fortunately there are plenty of pics online of Churchills (I downloaded dozens recently from the IWM site) to give you an idea of what was done, when and by which units.

Reusing discarded metal ammo boxes was common but make sure you use wartime designs, not those for 120mm tank rounds, for example.



Hi Robert,

Thanks for the feedback, you're backing-up what others have said, .

I'll also check out the IWM site and see what images I can find.

Thanks again, and cheers, ,

G
G-man69
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: October 17, 2017
KitMaker: 775 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1 posts
Posted: Friday, July 03, 2020 - 12:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Gareth,

Some sound advice already here; the key I feel is to look for examples of the real thing. That's not to disparage anyone else's models but you can't get better than the actual imagery from the time. After all, you don't wish to undertake the equivalent of red and white poles on the side of a Jagdtiger!

Keep it up Gareth, Churchill and scenery all looking outstanding.

Brian



Hi Brian,

Good to her from you, hope all goes well.

Thanks for the feedback regarding avoiding 'pitfalls'...I did have my doubts when looking at some of the builds, thought it might be a fire hazard, .

Cheers, ,

G
G-man69
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: October 17, 2017
KitMaker: 775 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1 posts
Posted: Friday, July 03, 2020 - 01:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Not a big Churchill fan, And not an “expert” by any means, but I am a Crocodile fan, having scratchbuilt an interior for my Tamiya Crocodile, which subsequently earned a 1st place award for closed top tracked armored vehicles at a local IPMS show several years ago. We also have a Crocodile at our local Flying Heritage and Combat Armor Museum, owned by the late Paul Allen. Sadly the FHCAM Museum is now closed, with no information on re-opening, if any. But I did a lot of “Churchill” research when building my Crocodile.

My reason for interjecting in this conversation is to clarify the purpose of the removed fenders adjacent to the turret. These were removed by the crews, because they had a tendency to buckle when hit with a round, and would fold up and jam the turret. As far as external stowage, Churchill crews seem to have kept stowage at a minimum, to keep the vehicle ready for action. Mostly on the rear fenders rather than engine deck, and there are two “flimsy” racks on the lower rear fenders, which were also used to carry cargo. The Crocodile trailer roof was used occasionally for stowage, especially for tarps and fuel related items. The Tamiya kit is a late Mk VII, a type that did not see a lot of action in 1944, except for the Crocodile. The earlier Mark AFV club kit is probably best suited to depict Churchills in France in 1944 (other than Crocodiles).

Just another note, the Fruil Mk VII track set is fabulous (but expensive), and will really lend a touch of realism to any Mk VII build. Removing the fenders around the turret is quite an undertaking on the Tamiya kit, as it will expose the empty interior, you’ll have to do some surgery with sheet styrene to patch up the holes, but it’s worth it, and will build into a unique model. Check the internet for photos, as I recall, there’s a “Churchill” web site dedicated specifically to the tank, with lots of photos, but I can’t recall the name.
VR, Russ



Hi Russ,

Thank you for taking the time to respond in detail, .

The information regarding stowage mainly being located on the mud/track guards pretty much ties-in with some of the images I have seen thus far.

I had toyed with the idea of removing the central mud/track guards, but chickened-out as I do not have the modelling skills to undertake any serious conversions...plus it was difficult to find images showing what would be seen if they were removed.

I will see if I can find the Churchill site you mentioned.

As to aftermarket tracks, and suchlike...being a recent returnee to the hobby after a four decade hiatus...I have to be honest and say that I baulk at the cost of some of the super-detailing products you can purchase. And, in all honesty, I doubt their use would be much of an improvement on my limited capabilities, , but thanks for the suggestions, .

Thanks again, and cheers, ,

G