I'm going to make my first serious attempt at using P.E. on a ship kit. I tried 1/700 but I really didn't have the eyesight, surgically skilled fingers, or patience for the small scale. So I've gotten the 1/350 Tom's Modelworks kit for the Trumpeter The Sullivans. So now I'm trolling for any helpful tips you folks can offer.

For instance. Do you put the PE on in the same steps as the kits parts it replaces, or do you build the whole kit then put on the PE?

Do you paint the PE prior to putting it on, or after the model is completed?

I've read one tip about starting at the top and working down, which makes perfect sense. Any other tips like this you can think of?

One thing I found with the 1/700 set is I'd bend a part, then try to adjust it to fit perfectly, only to have the thing break because I bent it too often. Any tips on how to avoid this?

Hi Rodger!
Your going to get varying answers to these questions, mate, because what works for me, may not work for Gator, but works for Skipper, but drives Steve crazy, etc., etc., but basically, I've found that alot of modelers are apprehensive about dealing with photo-etch, and truth is, if you just take your time, think about what you're doing, (and have a good magnifier) most photo-etch dealings are no more difficult than their plastic counter-parts...

As far as a build progression, I, like many others, "adjust" the manufacturers suggested build sequence to meet my methods, so step 2 might actually be step 6 for me, and so on an so forth...I do not wait until the end of the build for individual PE enhancements, except for deck railings...I always put these on last.

Painting the PE before application? Again, different modelers, different methods...tried it both ways myself, quite honestly, not much of a difference for me...I do give the PE a light "bath" in white vinegar prior to painting though...your paint/primer will adhere to the brass much better.

I agree on your point of bending the piece too much, as every fold in the brass causes the metals basic molecular structure to fracture, thus weakening at the bend...so, try to make as little adjustments as possible...the old carpenters adage of "measure twice, cut once" kind of comes into play here, my friend, know what I mean? And quite honestly, If I don't get the fold right on the first try, I usually end up ruining the piece, from trying to make further adjustments!

I guess the best tip that I have is to study your instructions, make a solid game plan, and stick to it...take your time, think before you bend (or glue! ), and just have fun with it!

Good luck, and keep us posted of your experiences, mate!
~Gunny

Halfyank,

Like gunny said every time you bend it, it tends to weaken it. When I'm doing things like a bend or corner in the railings I make small adjustments and check with the peice where the PE goes on after each adjustment. This method will take longer but I make less mistakes on the railing this way. For ship that have lots of railings (my arizona) I try to work the inside first going to the outside, also the very outside railing is keeped till the last.

Hi Rodger

Almost everything has been said
but I still would like to give you another tips:
study the instruction (both of them... model and PE set) together with the phisical parts - see if you feel more confortable making things in other order than the instruction say... study parts again until you almost know just by looking at the part where she's going to be fitted. And if you thing that some of the plastic parts look better than the PE ones (small caliber barrels, for instance), choose what you see fit! There's no need to use all of the PE set.
Work slowly and with confidence, use small amounts of cyanoacrilate glue, using a pin or small diameter metal rod, NEVER DIRECTLY FROM THE CA BOTTLE! Some of the PE parts can be dry fitted in place using white glue

If anything else is needed, I and the crew will help, for sure
Good luck

Skipper

And a little teaser about PE glue...coming soon on the market will be a product available for us modelers that performs as well as or if not better than CA, and is of an acrylic medium (no more stuck fingers, etc)...I've tried some of it, and the results are quite impressive...I'm currently testing the glue with different paint structures to see if it stands the test. Could be quite revolutionary!
That's all for now!
~Gunny

Rodger:

I can't add a whole lot to what has been said. I build in subassemblies and add PE like railings on usually after subassembly is done except where replacement is done or something like ladders or a part that would be real hard to put in after section was built. Some parts you replace with the PE so judge accoringly. I always look at both the kit directions and the PE at the same time. ONe thng I try to avoid now is doing rails with more than 2 or 3 bends in them. I'll just cut up into a couple of pieces to make it "fit" better. LOng straight pieces (main deck) I just run and gun. AS to pre-paint. I've done both and either method works. Usually it's no, especially in sub-assemblies.

Sounds VERY interesting. I'm not the biggest fan in the world of CA. Hopefully this won't be long coming.

Thanks for the encouragement guys.

Rodger,
I'm in the camp of "assemble first, paint second" for the railings.

This way you can glue the railing to the deck just a smidgen in from the edge of the deck, allowing a stronger joint, and allowing you to paint the deck inside the railing with the deck color, and outside the raling, paint it the color of the nearby vertical surfaces. This is called the "waterway" - a narrow section outboard of the railings (lifelines) where saltspray, rust, etc, runs off the side of the ship. It is always present on the main weatherdeck, and usually the superstructure.

Having the waterway painted the same color as the ship's side is both accurate and easier.

If you paint the railings and deck prior to assembly, you will have the deck painted the wrong color in the waterway area, unless you go back afterward for some VERY fine touch-up. :-)

Good luck with PE,
Rick

How big is this waterway thing in real life. 1 foot? that measures out to 3 / 100 of an inch in 350 scale. Not trying to be insulting, but getting something measured down to 1 32nd of an inch is impossible for me. a 16th requires a magnifying glass. You must have been blessed with the eye of a Eagle

Hmmm, good point, Steve.

This waterway thing measures about six inches, I seem to recall. That's why I said "a smidgen from the edge of the deck". I guess I am hitting about 1/64" from the absolute deckedge. My point is that I am explaining this ledge with a feature that is present on the actual ship. I am not striving to put the railing on the exact edge of the deck. And then I paint the ledge with the colr of the ship's side because that is correct in real life.

Just as I don't calculate the 1:1 thickness of rigging, railings or radar antennas , I'm not measuring this. It's an effect, not a calculated dimension that I am trying to represent.

I work in 1/700. So, since you asked, I checked a completed model, and it looks like I hit ~1/64", in other words, about half of the smallest increment on the ruler on my desk. (Wish I could show with a photo, but I am absolutely incapable of mastering the close-up controls on my camera, if indeed it is capable in the first place) So my 1/64" scales out to 10" in full size, not too bad at all, and if I were doing 1/350 I would need to make an effort to move the railing in a bit further than my normal "smidgen", just to keep from undershooting the 6" measurement. But I'll build in 1/350 when pigs fly, so that's not a real problem :-)

Best regards,
Rick

Showing this waterway does add quite a nice touch.

I add the PE before painting then spray the lightest hull colour. After that I paint in the deck, touch up the deck fittings then run a dark wash round the bottom of the railings to give the effect of there being a waterway. Alternatively, a pencil line round the inboard base of the rails will do the job.

The railing (if tarred rope) can then be picked out in black or dark grey paint.

Cheers,

Rob