I'm gathering info for doing up a Trumpy 1/350 Hancock as Shangri-La. My Father-in- Law served on her in 1945. What birds & how many of each were aboard in that time frame? And any ideas as to the squadron identifiers?

Ken, according to one of my my references, Shangri La started out with Air Group 85 as of November 1944, and she wound up joining Task Group 58.3 (along with Essex, Bunker Hill and the Light Carrier Bataan) April 24th, 1945, however just about every other source says she was chopped to 58.4, and I'm pretty sure that's correct. (Although in another spot in the book, is says "TG 85.4" which is CLEARLY wrong. I don't know who they pay to edit and proof these things!!!!!

The other reference shows the composition of Air Group 85 as VF-85 flying F6F Hellcats, VFB-99 flying F4U Corsairs, and VB-85 flying SB2C Helldivers. The reference doesn't list exactly how many aircraft were in each squadron, however by looking at the composition of the other groups at the time (particularly CVG 86 on the Wasp, CV-18) it seems that the most likely number Hellcats in VF-85 would have been somewhere around 36, and the number of Corsairs in the VFB-85 squadron would also have been 36. It is odd that this squadron is the only one designated as VFB, all the other dual purpose (fighter and bomber) squadrons are designated as VBF, so VFB may be another typo. And the number of Helldivers in VB-85 was probably around 15. For some reason this reference makes no mention of a VT squadron, which usually would have consisted of about 15 or so TBM Avengers. I'm not sure if this is an oversight or is actually correct.

Hope this helps some.

(One other note as far as painting. While the ship started out in painted in Measure 33 10A, she was in Measure 21 starting in early 1945)

Tom

EDIT: Well as I'm doing more digging, the story gets curiouser and curiouser as the saying goes. There doesn't appear to be a lot of information about Shangri-La and CVG-85 other than the same passage about the ship's history which appears verbatim in multiple sites. And then I found THIS on another site which suggests that VF-85 didn't have Hellcats, but Corsairs: (Not also the use of "VBF" as opposed to "VFB")



http://www.simviation.com/cfs2aircraft78.htm

This aircraft represents an F4U-1C of VF-85 aboard USS Shangri La CV-38 in May and June 1945. VF-85 was designated as the "fighter" unit aboard Shangri La, and operated alongside their "fighter bomber" sister squadron VBF-85 which was equipped with F4U-1D corsairs. VF-85's role was intended to be CAP, escort, interception and otherwise fleet defense work due to the 20mm cannon that the F4U-1C sported.




And in yet another site, I found a photo of two Hellcats which were identified by the letter "Z" which indicated they were from the Shangri-La from VF-85. The letter designation replaced a lightening bolt as the group identification sometime in July of 1945. This also reference seems to indicate that VF-85 was equipped with Corsairs, but included a detachment of night fighters which were Hellcats.





http://www.acepilots.com/smf/index.php?topic=42.0

My best guess would also be VF-85 aboard USS Shangri-La sometime after 28 July 1945 and before 3 September 1945. Both VF-85 and VBF-85 flew F4Us. These F6Fs would be from VF-85 if they were from the night fighter division, which was made up of 4 F6F-5Ns. Just judging from you description of the squadron insignia I’d say, yes, VF-85 (Sky Pirates) night fighters. VF-85 squadron insignia looked like:





Also note that BOTH these references refer to the VBF squadron as "85" and NOT "99", and that makes a whole lot more sense, since most of the other groups at the time had squadron numbers which matched the group number.


And then THIS site pretty much clinches that

1) VF-85 flew both Corsairs and Hellcats
2) The fighter bomber squadron was VBF-85 and NOT either VFB-85 or 99
3) There WAS a VT-85 which operated Avengers. And while I have not yet found a site that confirms that VT-85 was a part of CVG-85 on board Shangri-La, the reference I have which doesn't mention it has so many errors, that omission is likely just one more mistake.

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/9059/Sqns.html#VF

GO FIGURE!?!?!?


SO bottom line?

VF-85 with Corsairs and a couple of Hellcats (36 + 4)
VBF-85 with Corsairs (36)
VB-85 with Helldivers (15)
VT-85 with Avengers (15)

Total: approx 106

As of June 16, 1945, Shangri La reported the following:

VF-85:
23 F4U-1C (cannon equipped, three bladed props),
6 F6F-5N night fighters (with conformal radar pod on right wing)
2 F6F-5P photo-recon (no real visible difference in 1/350th to a standard F6F-5)

VBF-85: (yes, VBF, as you surmised VFB was a typo)
39 F4U-1D / FG-1D (FG-1D was a goodyear-built corsair. Same plane, different manufacturer)

VB-85:
15 SB2C-4E

VT-85:
15 TBM-3

If you want a different time frame provide me the MONTH and I'll give you the breakdown. a year is far too general.

Gentlemen,

I am dazzled with this outpouring of information. SH! and Thank you!
In my gathering of data, I did catch the camouflage change when the "Shang" arrived Pearl in Feb 45 (NavSource pix). And my wife remembers her father talking about Corsairs & how he liked them.
Trying to nail down a time frame was a bit of a problem. She does say he told her about being on Guam and seeing a midget submarine. Don't know if it was beached, if they found it in the local area or whatever. She was listening to her father's sea stories. Daties of events weren't important.

The great thing is all those aircraft are available (maybe a slight modification or two) from Trumpeter. Makes life a lot easier then trying to scratch a dozen or so out.

The only thing you'll really need to do if you go for 100% accuracy is add six radar pods like this to your Hellcats.

Take a look at the site:

www.vbf-85.com

If you know the author of that site please pass along a few tips for him:

* Navy Aircraft did not launch rockets from tubes.
* the F4U-1A had a centerline bomb rack, the later corsairs had two inboard of the wheel wells that could be used for bombs, Tiny Tim rockets, and drop tanks.
* The second picture on the right is a rendering or from a game, if it matters much.
* The third picture is a model of a corsair, and the company name is/was Goodyear, not Good Year.
* Last picture is incorrectly captioned, the correct color is "Glossy Sea Blue." Navy Blue, which could be used, was flat and not glossy.

Small details, I know, but if you're going to present a site like that I believe one owes it to history and those you're trying to present about to be factually correct and not spread inaccuracies.

Ken,

Air Group 85 consisted of 4 squadrons and 106 aircraft. VBF-85 had 36 Corsairs (F4U-1Ds and FG-1Ds) whose numbers were 1 to 36. Aircraft number 37 was a -1D that was the CAG aircraft. VF-85 had 30 Corsairs (F4U-1Cs) whose numbers were 38 to 67. There were 2 F6F-5Ps, numbers 68 and 69. VB-85 had 15 SB2C-4Es; numbers 70 to 84. VT-85 had 15 TBM-3Es; numbers 85 to 99. There were 4 F6F-5Ns; numbers 101 to 104. The fighters and dive bombers were overall glossy blue. Most of the torpedo planes were overall glossy blue, however at least two (#86 and another plane) were in the old tri-color scheme. No. 86 was shot down on April 29 and replaced by a glossy blue plane.

The ship was painted Measure 21 in Pearl Harbor in February 1945. The port side aft lattice antennae were replaced with whip antennae in December 1944. The flight deck number was removed in the Pacific (prior to deployment to the forward area) and the ship carried a lightning bolt on the flight deck forward and aft until late July 1945 and then a Z on the flight deck forward and aft from August until at least November 1945.

The ship did not carry the 40mm gun tubs on the starboard side (hangar deck level). These were usually affixed after transiting the Panama Canal, but SHANGRI-LA never had them installed. The SK-2 radar was moved from atop the island to the starboard side of the island before deployment to the Pacific.

There were no Air Group 99 squadrons aboard SHANGRI-LA. This is common misinformation contained in several websites and publications. Air Group 99 was one of the RAGs in the Pacific from which numerous air groups, including Air Group 85, drew their replacement pilots. Air Group 85 was aboard SHANGRI-LA until September 3, 1945, when it was replaced by the reorganized Air Group 2.

Be careful of some of the information on SHANGRI-LA on some websites. They sometimes use generic ESSEX-class data and information (including drawings) that are not accurate for the long-hull carriers.

Hope this information is useful.

Bob Ketenheim
Historian
USS SHANGRI-LA Association
www.uss-shangri-la.com