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Ships by Class/Type
For discussions on ships by class and type.
Cold War subs...
woodstock74
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Posted: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 04:22 AM UTC
What scale offers the most variety of submarines to model? Mainly interested in cold war era, NATO and Warsaw Pact.
blaster76
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Posted: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 04:36 AM UTC
350 I think most are made by Dragon, but this is not my forte. Skipper and Gunny do a lot of these. You might do a scan on Great Models and see what all you can find.
woodstock74
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Posted: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 11:19 AM UTC
Thanks. I did just as you said and indeed 1/350 seems the more popular scale with offerings from DML, Zvezda, Alanger, Trumpeter, and Yankee Modelworks. Just about everything seems covered. A bit suprised at the prices though given how few parts appear in the kits. Are there any good sites that have kit reviews of these particular kits?
TracyWhite
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Posted: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 06:54 PM UTC
Yankee Model Works does a fairly wide variety in 350th Resin... various Guppies as well as the later Nukes on the US side, and later nuclear Soviet subs (none of the earlier ones) Zvezda did Hotel (K-19) and November (K-3) in 350th Plastic and they build up pretty nicely as long as you don't drop them

Alanger has recently come out with 350th plastic Typhoon, Delta IV, and Akula kits that are extremely buildable. Detail is a bit overdone and there are inaccuracies, but they're not really obvious unless you study the real boats.

I lack the Guppy IIs in the YKM line but I have the Guppy III and all of the other ones mentioned above if you have questions.
woodstock74
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Posted: Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 05:21 PM UTC
So are the only options for US 1/350 (LA class, Skipjack, Permit, Sturgeon, etc.) resin?
TracyWhite
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Posted: Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 05:35 PM UTC
Dragon released a couple of 350th LA boats in a couple of different configurations. None of the others have been done in plastic in 350th; Revell did a box (230th scale I believe) Skipjack. Revell has released a couple of boomers in various box scales; one a re-pop of a Renwal kit. But if you want consistent scales in plastic, 350th is currently the scale of choice... 1/144 may be comperable in a couple of years however (Trumpeter has started down this road with a Kilo and so-so Seawolf, Revell has since released a U-212 and they've been fairly well received.

Dragon has released in plastic (off the top of my head) a Flight I and Flight II LA boat, an Ohio SSBN (no SSGN yet unfortunately), and an Alfa (as a LA/Alfa adversary type set). A Seawolf is due out sometime this year. Alanger's releases I covered earlier. Zvezda's has released the Hotel and November class, but also a couple of Oscar II releases (Kursk and Oriol).

1/700th might be a scale to look into, but I haven't seen anything recently and the stuff I have seen I haven't for a while, so it may be hard to find.
woodstock74
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Posted: Friday, January 04, 2008 - 12:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Dragon released a couple of 350th LA boats in a couple of different configurations. None of the others have been done in plastic in 350th; Revell did a box (230th scale I believe) Skipjack. Revell has released a couple of boomers in various box scales; one a re-pop of a Renwal kit. But if you want consistent scales in plastic, 350th is currently the scale of choice... 1/144 may be comperable in a couple of years however (Trumpeter has started down this road with a Kilo and so-so Seawolf, Revell has since released a U-212 and they've been fairly well received.

Dragon has released in plastic (off the top of my head) a Flight I and Flight II LA boat, an Ohio SSBN (no SSGN yet unfortunately), and an Alfa (as a LA/Alfa adversary type set). A Seawolf is due out sometime this year. Alanger's releases I covered earlier. Zvezda's has released the Hotel and November class, but also a couple of Oscar II releases (Kursk and Oriol).

1/700th might be a scale to look into, but I haven't seen anything recently and the stuff I have seen I haven't for a while, so it may be hard to find.



Thanks Tracy!
devans
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Posted: Friday, January 04, 2008 - 11:10 AM UTC
You can actually do a flight 1, 2or 3 with the dragon kits. Flight 1 is with the sail planes and no VLS hatches, flight 2 is sail planes and VLS hatches and flight 3 is bow planes and VLS hatches. They do build into some pretty nice boats, I've done a few. Tracey didn't dragon also put out a kit that had a 688 and a Typhoon? I did a quick search but nothing.
Don
TracyWhite
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Posted: Friday, January 04, 2008 - 12:08 PM UTC
If they did I don't recall it, but I didn't mention the Dragon Typhoon because the Alanger kit is much better in terms of detail accuracy; the dragon kit lacks the prop shrouds and has a lot of other things on the stern that are missing or incorrect.
woodstock74
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Posted: Friday, January 04, 2008 - 02:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text

If they did I don't recall it, but I didn't mention the Dragon Typhoon because the Alanger kit is much better in terms of detail accuracy; the dragon kit lacks the prop shrouds and has a lot of other things on the stern that are missing or incorrect.



Hmm, that's good to know. What's DML's Alfa like in the LA/Alfa combo kit?
TracyWhite
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Posted: Friday, January 04, 2008 - 03:12 PM UTC
Well, it ain't strictly correct either, but I don't remember the details of what was wrong. The Typhoon and Alfa were kitted before a lot of the research we have now was available and were "best guesses." Not BAD, but not entirely accurate either.

What you might want to do is go to the Subcommittee's website and look through the static model section as there's tons of info there, and in the case where a subject hasn't been covered (They've converted board software a couple of times and lost posts) there will be very intense bubble heads who can help.

http://www.subcommittee.com/
woodstock74
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Posted: Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 04:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Well, it ain't strictly correct either, but I don't remember the details of what was wrong. The Typhoon and Alfa were kitted before a lot of the research we have now was available and were "best guesses." Not BAD, but not entirely accurate either.

What you might want to do is go to the Subcommittee's website and look through the static model section as there's tons of info there, and in the case where a subject hasn't been covered (They've converted board software a couple of times and lost posts) there will be very intense bubble heads who can help.

http://www.subcommittee.com/



Thanks, wasn't aware of subcommittee! Purchased a Zvezda Oscar II (K-266 "Oriol") today at LHS. What's exciting to me is the simplicity of the sub kits. I hope that translates (for me) into completed builds! While I'm waiting for my registration to become activated over at subcommittee's forum, wanted to post an inquiry regarding this kit in particular's torpedo tube doors. The detail is very faint on the left hand side and non-existant on the right hand side. With a scribe I will freshen up the detail on the good side, what do I do about the opposite side? I'm thinking paper template, but as this detail is on the curvature of the nose that might be fraught from the get go. Any ideas or is this a duff part to begin with, do others who have this kit not have this issue?
TracyWhite
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Posted: Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 04:48 PM UTC
That's about where my build is hung up; since they're not circular or oval but a sort of compound circle/hex shape I haven't figured out what to do about them....

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/oscar/oscar1.html
woodstock74
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Posted: Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 05:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text

That's about where my build is hung up; since they're not circular or oval but a sort of compound circle/hex shape I haven't figured out what to do about them....

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/oscar/oscar1.html



Do decent drawings exist anywhere? I'm not really a rivet counter, but I will still struggle to replicate anything in this area with the curvature of the bow. I think it's folly to attempt to template both the hole shape and relative position within one template. Makes better sense to create the shape via a front view (using the tube closest to sub centerline as that's closest to being perpendicular to the viewer) and then accept that shape as you move outboard (even though it's then technically incorrect due to the round shape of the hull. I think the small size of the tube will mask the distortion. I think...just need a good drawing that shows the tube doors.

Edited to add...read Kevin McCleod's Oscar II build. Anyone friendly with him, perhaps he has a drawing showing the front view?
TracyWhite
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Posted: Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 09:23 PM UTC
Well, "circular" holes that are turned into ovals by the bow shape can be recreated by slicing a tube at the correct angle, or near enough, and using that as a template to scribe. The hex shaped ones though.... haven't seen any hex metal "tubing" yet.

As far as plans, I don't know. You might try and drop Wayne Frey a line and see if his book has any.

One thing I forgot to mention before is that Zvezda got the bottom "rudder" wrong; there should be two of them, not one. Use the kit-supplied one as a template for the second from what I understand and mount each of them underneath one of the shafts at the same position the kit would have the one.
devans
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Posted: Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 01:04 PM UTC
Tracy,
Your right about the best guess thing. I have a Typhoon (don't remember who made the kit) that is way off! It actually has what can only be described as a Jimmy Deranty type nose on the bow. I guess it's supposed to be some sort of sonar or something. The stern is all together wrong, in fact there is sooo much wrong with it I won't even attempt it. I keep it around for when I need a good chuckle. I may be wrong about the Dragon Typhoon/ 688 kit, I thought I saw one years ago but...
As for the Alfa in the dragon kit yes there are issues, but those can be overcome if your patient. Off the top of my head, the small thrusters on the ends of the stern planes have to be added, the reactor coolant intakes, there is more but I can't remember. As Tracy said contact Wayne Frey and get his book. Wayne is a very stand up guy to deal with.
Oh and guys if you go to the subcommittees website check out Kevin McLeods Oscar scratch build. He had an interesting method for doing the torpedo doors on it. Here is a link to the thread. http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php5?t=4691
Don
TracyWhite
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Posted: Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 03:49 PM UTC
Ahhh god thread. The torpedo doors section starts on page 10.
thathaway3
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Posted: Monday, January 07, 2008 - 10:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

You can actually do a flight 1, 2or 3 with the dragon kits. Flight 1 is with the sail planes and no VLS hatches, flight 2 is sail planes and VLS hatches and flight 3 is bow planes and VLS hatches. They do build into some pretty nice boats, I've done a few. Tracey didn't dragon also put out a kit that had a 688 and a Typhoon? I did a quick search but nothing.
Don



I built two flight 3 versions, and while overall they're not too bad, there are a couple of glaring errors with the kit, which are not too difficult to fix. The biggest error is that they have two of the VLS hatches misplaced requiring that two additional holes be cut in the right spot, and the two offending hatches filled over. Another problem is that the sail should be a lot more rounded on the forward end, and the kit's parts are pointed on both ends. But again, some putty will fix that up nicely.

My son spent two years each on two different flight 3 boats and provided some outstanding technical support in fixing the kits. If you're interested on doing one of those, let me know.


Tom
woodstock74
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Posted: Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 05:39 AM UTC
Does anyone do a Trafalgar in 1/350?

I'll answer my own question, apparently yes! White Ensign Models has one plus a HMS Vangaurd (SSBN) and HMW Trenchant (Trafalgar class SSN).
TracyWhite
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Posted: Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 05:47 AM UTC
White Ensign has one listed in their catalog but it appears to be a waterline kit; you may want to e-mail them and double-check.
woodstock74
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Posted: Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 05:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

White Ensign has one listed in their catalog but it appears to be a waterline kit; you may want to e-mail them and double-check.



Opps! Was editing while you were posting! Checked WEN and they indicate all their 1/350 sub kits I mentioned above as "Full-hull kit".
JMartine
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Posted: Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 06:45 AM UTC
The Revell Skipjack is 1:230 scale; the Dragon 350 Typhoon is very inacurate. I have both kits, can give you more details or scan instructions if you want. Stay away from the ARII "Modern Subs Series" in 1:700, as bad as they come. Tauro Models have some resin/metal Subs, Italian ww2 mostly, have only come across one. Finally, Mirage Hobby from Poland has a few 1:400 Polish Subs, I picked a couple at sale prices, ORP Orzel (1939) and ORP Sep (1955), not really modern though. They look like nice kits, have not built any (yet!).
Finally, Great Models has dozens of ships on sale at the momment, including the 1:350 Bronco Seawolf, the Dragon Ohio, Revell Kursk.. I have no idea the quality/accuracy of these kits.
skipper
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Posted: Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 07:15 AM UTC
Hi Mike

And just to make a little more confusion why not start your adventure in 1/700?
Most of Cold War period submarines are presented either in plastic and in resin, being much cheaper in this scale...
Hobby Boss is starting to release in plastic, in kit form, and Trumpeter as them already built and painted (same kits, which the original were made by Pitroad and released as painted/built models in Japan under Takara label).
Apart from the Hobby Boss list which has reached the 15 item list, released and to be released, you also have the older DML/Dragon double series, with a Warsaw pact versus NATO/Allied force sub, these being also released under the label of Revell Monogram and Italeri. And of course there are JAG, Loose Canon and other resin manufacturers that also produce other items.

Give it a though... they are cheaper and will occupy less space and in most of them, you can make them waterline or full hull versions.

Skipper
woodstock74
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Posted: Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 11:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Mike

And just to make a little more confusion why not start your adventure in 1/700?
Most of Cold War period submarines are presented either in plastic and in resin, being much cheaper in this scale...
Hobby Boss is starting to release in plastic, in kit form, and Trumpeter as them already built and painted (same kits, which the original were made by Pitroad and released as painted/built models in Japan under Takara label).
Apart from the Hobby Boss list which has reached the 15 item list, released and to be released, you also have the older DML/Dragon double series, with a Warsaw pact versus NATO/Allied force sub, these being also released under the label of Revell Monogram and Italeri. And of course there are JAG, Loose Canon and other resin manufacturers that also produce other items.

Give it a though... they are cheaper and will occupy less space and in most of them, you can make them waterline or full hull versions.

Skipper



Well unfortuantely I've already gone down the 1/350 route. Purchased a Zvezda Oscar II as well as a Yankee Model Works Alfa. Eying both a Skipjack and LA 688 next...
skipper
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Posted: Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 12:22 PM UTC
No problem - this way you have more space to put details
Cheers and keep us posted
Skipper
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