Ahoy Shipmates,

As the title suggests, perhaps I am a tad bit crazed. I have had a lot of fun detailing and kitbashing the old Revell PT Boat kit in the past, going so far as to build one up as Italeris' recent 1/35 scale offering as a late war boat with roll off racks and upgunned with a 40MM Bofors mount. This last effort was completed just as Italeri made the announcement that they were bringing one out in the larger scale, confirming my belief that as soon as you build it, some company out there will come out with the same thing either larger or more detailed than what the modeler has slaved over for so long to build from scratch. I have the Corvette Snowberry in the stash waiting for when I get to feeling really masochistic or snowbound in the winter months as well as a couple of the new 1/72 scale sub kits from Revell, the theme seeming to be around 1/72 as a bigger has got to be better thing scale wise.

Hasegawa has released two kits of seaplanes, a Jake and an Alf with a rather nifty catapult set up as a display base. I have completed the Alf kit and was quite pleased with the result, the catapult is fairly well detailed and offers up an idea. I am condidering building up either a sectional or perhaps even a full on complete IJN cruiser, waterline of course, using these parts as a starting point. I do have the old Morskie Monograph on a couple of IJN Cruisers that sported these units, haven't gotten as far as making a choide on which one, but the seed is planted. I have gone so far as to acquire three of the Hasegawa Jake kits as cannon fodder for this little pipe dream.

Any of you out there have any ideas or suggestions to the mentally handicapped such as myself? (Yes, I realize that this is probably going to leave me as a immediate fall guy for all sorts of impish comments, but for the possible constructive suggestions that may come down the pike, they are probably worth it.)

Yes Jay, you are crazy. That being said, I recently got the 1/72 Fine Molds Pearl Harbor midget sub and am thinking about scratch building a portion of the sub deck for display purposes.


Kenny

Sounds quite normal compared to some of the Crazies I've met here!

Oops, not me of course!

Crazy - no, ambitious - yes!

I would go for a section, but that depends on the story You wants to tell. When I do dioramas I try to not make them bigger than needed to tell the story.

Good luck - you are going to need it
Cheers/Jan

hear hear! (or is it ("here, here" or "ear ear"?)
Anyway, Jay you've got aaaalll my support

Hi Jay!

The most famous IJN catapult "story" has got to be Tone's No. 4 search plane getting off to a late start at the Battle of Midway. Another bonus to producing a Tone or Chikuma is the mass of float planes you can include.

Having completed one fleet carrier and roughed out the hulls and islands of two others in 1:48 scale, I can say that building major ships in aircraft scales does offer engineering challenges not faced in typical ship scales: since you will be working with materials on a size factor 5 to 10 times larger than normal, you will have to look at things more like an architect than a kit builder. When building the USS Midway, I spent as much time making retro fixes as I did in moving the construction forward. However, those lessons made the follow on work with the Lexington and Hornet that much easier.

Having written the above, producing very large models is probably a mania, but when it works well it's a blast!

Good luck and send pictures!

--Karl

Jay,

My dear friend! You're not crazy at all!
I have the Jake model as well (an old one with the catapult as you say...) and after a "recent discovery":

PitRoad Grand Force Series

and a old news:
Choroszy Modelbud - Ships and Accessories (see first five items)

made me wonder and start thinking of a similar situation... I can say that the idea is excellent and the only thing that moved me away from it (for now) is the absence of crew members...
I can say, go for it - you're not crazy at all


Rui

Thanks Mates,

The Hasegawa Catapult Float Planes are a pretty happening model on their own and with a couple of them on the rails as well as a couple more on trolleys waiting their turns, it would be a pretty interesting scene just being larger than the ship scales that I have worked in so long. As to depicting an actual event like on board the Tone, that would leave me with one on a catapult and undergoing repairs. If I can locate enough information on a cross section sort of set up that may be what I go for. I have seen a couple of models that have been done that way in an ad that came from Internet Hobbies and that did sort of stoke this fire a little further.

Rui, those Sky Wave kits look pretty interesting and may be finding their way into this thing. Working on something like this for me is a whole lot of scratching with media that I have or can get. With the aid of some of the 3D series and Morskie Monographs, it is entirely possible to come up with a concept and plan then follow through. All it takes is a lot of time and some effort, time I got, effort is something that sort of gets generated once I come up with a workable plan.

Karl, sounds like you got it going on working through these things in 1/48th scale. As to pictures, once I get it figured out, there will be lots of those. I would be interested in seeing some of your work, a 1/48th scale Lex or Hornet would be awesome in such a large scale. That would take one heck of a storage/display case.

Karl, sounds like you got it going on working through these things in 1/48th scale. As to pictures, once I get it figured out, there will be lots of those. I would be interested in seeing some of your work, a 1/48th scale Lex or Hornet would be awesome in such a large scale. That would take one heck of a storage/display case.[/quote]

Hi Jay!

The Midway model was produced to help promote bringing the real thing to San Diego as a museum, which we finally accomplished in 2004. She is now on display in a professionally designed case at Petco Park (where the Padres play) in downtown San Diego.

After the Midway was first put on display and while waiting for the Museum to get started, I carried on with the Lexington (CV-2) and opted for her late 1930's appearance. Her hull (like the Midway, a waterline model) is roughed out with a lumber interior and sheet styrene shell plating. LOA of the model is 18.5 feet. The flight deck is also sheet styrene (making a planked wooden deck would have been hideously expensive). I built, tore down, and rebuilt the island, tripod mast, and massive funnel from sheet styrene on a balsa armature. The forward two 8-inch gunhouses are also roughed out of styrene with artist's paintbrush handle barrels. The after two gunhouses are languishing.

The Hornet (CV-8) was started onboard the Midway shortly after the Museum became operational (I had intended to produce a series of 1:48 carriers with air groups for a grand exhibit on carrier history, but the cost of such a full exhibit is exhorbitant). Her construction methodology was similar to the previous two CV's with the added bonus of not having to display the hangar deck since I wanted a Doolittle Raid scene. Her island and flight deck are also roughed out in styrene. One thing about Yorktown class carriers: to save weight, their designers made EVERY catwalk perforated! That's either an huge expense in brass or a lot of hole-making in thin styrene (guess which way I went?)

The flight deck planking for both Lex and Hornet had to be hand scribed (that's every 1/10th of an inch, for over 18 linear feet, in parallel), I'm surprised the tip of my index finger doesn't have a permanent furrow from the scriber!

Right now, the models are in storage on the Midway awaiting further disposition as well as their respective air groups (16 Revell B-25B's is an awesome stack!). Perhaps I'll find a way to display them so they can be completed.

BTW, I just started work today on a 1:144th Langley (CV-1) to join a donated model of the USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78) which we'll display on our hangar deck. This will be my first ever full hull scratchbuild. Wish me luck!

--Karl

Hi Jay!

I just checked my IJN references and I have an inboard profile and cross sectional drawings of the Tone. If you'd like copies, I can mail them to you. Please leave a message in my locker if you're interested.

--Karl

Hi Karl,

I can appreciate gaining your lumps with something that sized, my right index finger has a semi permanent furrow from all the sheet styrene scribing, trimming, and cutting that I have done over the years. For some reason it fits the end on my favorite #11 hobby knife handle and comes out every time I think about one of these grand plans.

I will fire off my addy and would appreciate those drawings, if not for this project, I am sure that they would come in handy some where down the line. The last IJN Tone I did was a bit smaller than I am planning on for the catapults at 1/700, but came out pretty well.



I wish that I had the space to whip up something as ambitious as a 1/48th scale Air Craft Carrier, but I am afraid that my next door neighbors in the apartment complex would object to me knocking out their wall for the needed extension to the work bench.

I wish that I had the space to whip up something as ambitious as a 1/48th scale Air Craft Carrier, but I am afraid that my next door neighbors in the apartment complex would object to me knocking out their wall for the needed extension to the work bench. [/quote]

Hi Jay!

The oversized carrier model projects were feasible only because of 70,000 tons of steel with 3,000 comparments to stow them!

--Karl

Hi Karl,

Yeah, with that much space to house a project one can get pretty happy with larger scale projects.

So it is back to the drawing board and a little reorganizing of the living space to yield a bare spot to come up with my dream of an idea. Good thing I don't have a wife to veto all these grand plans, it's bad enough to have to explain to the girlfriend why.

Hi Jay!

The Tone copies should get to you by the weekend. With the 1:72 I-boats coming out soon, this opens other possibilities with including aircraft and ships.

--Karl

Thanks Karl,

Yes, I know about the I boats coming up. The only problem I am finding with all these great new goodies coming down the ways is finding time to work on them, things like work, sleep and life in general keeps getting in the way darn it!

Ahoy Mates,

I have been doing a little research when I have had time and while a Tone/Chikuma would be interesting, one of the few IJN Cruisers that carried 5 Floatplanes as opposed to most other cruisers with only 3, I am leaning more towards a Myoko Class for a twin catapult display and have also been considering one of the Furutaka Class for a single catapult display with the older Kawanishi Alf biplane. And then of course, there is always a Kuma Class for the same idea. Any one of either two types, single and doubles would be interesting to test out my idea.

I have been using the Nihon Kaigun site to look at things as well as some of the Morskie Monographs and other books from my reference library to consider all of these options. Piotr Wisniewski and Slawomir Brzezinski are two very talented gentlemen who put the Morskie Monographs out if you are not familiar with the series. They do an excellent job of taking the various sections of the ship in question and breaking it down to manageable bits to enable AMS sufferers like me to add some details to a build. It is a great source to use when you want to make a ships' main mast look like it should instead of a couple of bits of styrene rod stuck on a model. The other sections of the ships they detail out in their drawings also help in adding bits like portholes, ladderways, railings, conduits and junction boxes that are usually lost in the small scale kits.

When I decided to get happy with the old Hasegawa Ise kit, the Morskie Monograph was invaluable to build up the main deckhouse section since they broke it down into manageable pieces to do this with it.






Unfortunately, it also showed where the kit sort of fell a bit short in the aircraft handling deck and it related structure and required a major rebuild, but then such is life in the divine scale world.

At any rate, getting back to the subject at hand, I am thinking of taking the already built Alf that I have and starting to work towards making up a single rail catapult display to cut my teeth on this project. When I have some sort of progress to report, I shall post it here for all of you to point at and snicker.

Nice work on the sub-assembly, Jay. I get fits just thinking about trying work PE structures in 1:700!

You know, the Mogami rebuild and even the tower catapult for the Ise/Hyuga could offer interesting possibilities for a catapult sectional model.

--Karl

Beautiful work on the Ise superstructure Jay!

Kenny

Thanks, Guys,

Actually I was trying to point out how good the Morskie Monograph series of books are more than anything else. That took about two weeks to fiddle together. The rest of the ship took about two months overall but it was a fun one to do, even more so 'cause a friend gave it to me since he figured his days of working in 1/700 were over. The same gent recently got his build of the USS England featured in FSM a month ago so he just moved up to a little larger sized scale to work in, he does great stuff.

The old "Ise" came out pretty fair once all was said and done.

Ahoy Mates,

Back to the subject at hand as it were, I have decided to use the already built Kawanishi "Alf" as my plane/catapult combination for the first foray into coming up with a large scale ship section/perhaps ship. I chose it basically because it is already built and I can get right down to the matter of constructing the ship part without any delay. I have chosen the IJN Light Cruiser Tama in her 1935 fit as my victim.

The reasons behind this are that in 1935 she carried the same type catapult and plane as I have on hand, she is one the interesting three stack old line cruisers and there is sufficient details in an immediate area around the catapult to make for an interesting display. I also have the Morskie Monograph to assist in coming up with a reasonable amount of structure and detailing it out.

The Hasegawa kit of the "Alf" itself is pretty nice and builds up into a fairly well detailed subject. This is where I suppose you should see what I am starting with.









There is my beginning.

Hi Jay (again)

I can say that it is a good start!!
The Tama is also a good subject to work on and it would be interesting to see part of it on a pre-war situation!
Keep us posted, please!


Rui

Thanks Rui,

And you can bet the posting thing won't be a problem!

I have been digging about in the old Morskie Monograph and Chathams' IJN Cruisers of WWII coming up with the start of a work book of some 26 pages of drawings and a few pictures of the ship itself. Grubbing through the stash I even came up with Tamiyas' 1/700 scale kit of the Tama as she was modified and camo'd up for the Alaska Expeditions to Attu and Kiska.

Just to give you an idea of size, in 1/700 scale the 532 foot long light cruiser comes out to just about 9 inches long, translating that to 1/72 scale it is 88.6 inches or just a little over 7 feet. As I cast about thinking about this whatever way I chose to go, full length or a section, it is definitely going to have to be waterline. Just coming up with the curvature of the hull itself that way is enough to give one fits. If I get daring enough to go for the full length version, it will start with a sheet of 3/4 inch plywood sectioned to a two foot wide piece eight feet long to give me a base wide enough to allow for a 7.4 inch wide deck area 88.6 inches long, the dimensions of the complete ships' hull and deck. With that much room available I will probably have to fit a few other things in there as well just to keep it interesting.

It will have to be mostly scratch built since there are just a few items that could be purchased like the small weapons sets that Rui pointed me at in the Pit Road Grand Force Series of kits. Toms' Model Works has a few items in 1/96 scale that would no doubt work as well. The bulk of the structures would be made from .030 and .060 styrene sheet, I do have a couple of plastics stores here in Vegas that stock 4'X8' sheets of that making it cheaper and easier to get ahold of than the little packages you get in the hobby shops.

As to a time frame for this sort of a project, well, a lot of planning in advance is certainly required. Drawing up the detailed sections from smaller views that I have to come up to an overall and acceptable look will take some time just in its' own right. Working at it steadily would get to be a real time killer so I can figure that several kits would be built while this one project gets worked toward. Not to mention contributing the odd review and eyeballing all the great stuff that you all come up with probably will take a couple of years of off time.

The last time I got a bug to create something of this nature was when I found the Admiralty Class Minesweeper on Roman Deytnas' Digital Models paper model site. It is available as a free download to let you try your hand at paper models. When I spotted it I figured, sure, I can translate that into a styrene scratchbuild project, shouldn't take too long.... Uh huh, yeah right. Blessed with a whole lot of photos of the real deal online, a real patient girl friend, I spent some 14 months working at it The end result was a 1/250 scale plastic scratchbuild that I rather like. I did have to take breaks and work out on a few other kits just to keep my sanity, what little I have left, but it was a fun thing to do. Oh yeah, this is what I came up with for all that effort.



This is what it looked like before painting, just about went snowblind looking at all that white styrene.

Hi Jay!

Good luck on the cruiser build.

Research will be the critical part of the process, and remember to think like an architect, not just a model builder. That way, construction pitfalls can be avoided or mitigated.

--Karl

Hi Jay

The Tama is indeed one of those nice and charismatic subjects - especially during Aleutians Campaign (I really love the grey/white camo and all the rust it caught!!!)
Going to the full length of it is a big project, but it can be done.... One of our portuguese friends (and also a member here: Jose Chaiça (weatherman)) is making a 1/72 USS Manila Bay. Although in portuguese, you can see the progress here:
1/72 USS Manila Bay

As for the Admiralty Class Minesweeper, it's on my to-do list in 1/700 (scratchbuilt, since there's no model available!)
You have captured it's lines very well, and I understand the snow blindness - I sense that with the Alvares Cabral (and it is a small ship!)

Keep on, keep us posted, don't give up - never give up


Rui

Ok, we all know now that you are no merely a bit crazy but raving mad

anyway - a little suggestion, due to the size of that ship in 1:72 I will suggest finding the most interesting section and sufficient of it to suit your needs, say like - you want to show the plane, the catapult and some of the surrounding area - a few aa guns etc.

Put the plane on a piece of paper and determine how much surroundings you want to include - Find a scale drawing of the ship seen from above - translate the size of the scene to the scale of the ships drawing - and cut out a square in a piece of paper in that size - maybe do af few in other sizes.

Now place the paper with the cutouts over the ship drawings and try to position it so you include as much as you want .. try not to go parallel with the ships sides - include more or less water etc. .. maybe a boat in the water and so on.

Now from the size of the plane you will have an idea of how much ship you need to do to tell your story ....

Does it make sense .... dunno - its late

Cheers