I am reasonably certain that these ships used shore supplied current in their docks ( a harbour generator can make a very irritating racket). Why go to the trouble of making a special cover for this when the railing is right next to it ? German over-engineering?
I think Michael has it right when he mentions the need to fit something next to the tube door that has to be flush against the vessel side.
cheers,
Julian

Hi! I am new on board and allow me to say to all of you that your posts are of the most instructive! No doubt to me Italeri released something unsatisfactory with errors as big as his model...
As this S-100 sounds more and more a Cluedo game to resolve, can I come to you with another doubt to make our evenings more enjoyable? Does anybody know what the arrowed object on both pictures is?
The one on 'Ha-Ju' to left seems to be closed with a kind of protection lid, while on 'Lang' it looks opened. Could it be a sort of sensor do you think? I have no idea and any suggestions are welcome!



Robert

Hi Robert,
Welcome on board. I share your sentiments about the Italeri kit, their boast about having produced the biggest plastic kit is quite silly , after all who cares. It's quality we want, not empty boasts, and the Italeri kit is certainly not a modeller's model. The part on the Kalotte you refer to seems to be present on every single S-100 boat. Unfortunately there isn't a single pic that clearly shows what was mounted here. The old 32nd Parallel kit from France (built by Joseph Neumeyer), featured in Steve Wiper's book , has a spotlight of sorts in this position. This may well be correct since early S-Boote also had searchlights on the roof of the pilothouse.

Cheers,

Arjan

I have just received my model after a long wait. Have been following this thread so have been able to build up great deal of background information thanks to the dillegence of this group.
This is certainly an interesting build. Will keep you posted.
Les

Hi Les,
Welcome on board as well, the more the merrier Please do rock the boat
Arjan

Hello all -

So I spent last night tearing apart portions of the bridge because of a fresh review of some pictures of Ha-Ju I extended the side armor back further, moved the location of the "crows nest", relocated the position of the hand holds, removed the second step on the sides of the karolette and made a Cuba style radar array from spare parts. All of which knocked off the archer rivets that I prematurely applied. Tonight I plan to refine the side mounts for the anteannae as well as the triangular mount that seems to be visible at the rear of the bridge.

I'll take some pictures when I am done (hopefully this evening). At this point I am thinking of not using the Ha-Ju markings and calling the boat "Bobs your uncle" and equipping it however I want!

Chris

Hi Chris,
Your story sounds familiar the French call it "reculer pour mieux sauter", do not know what it is in English it's something like take a step backward to leap (two) forward. I'm looking forward to seeing your radar and antenna.

Arjan

Thanks Arjan for the welcome!
This model definitively requires not to rush. I haven't been very good so far at how to figure out at which point I should start painting and how best I could tackle it!
But will post some piccies as soon as my researches come to satisfaction.
This Dragon box with its 'Tiger Aces Normandy 1944' could be a good idea for the crew too, what do you think?
http://www.dragonmodelsusa.com/dmlusa/prodd.asp?pid=CAN20034

I gave a closer look at the right picture posted yesterday and the item seems to have two little holes inside. Not sure then it could be spotlight then...

Robert

The expression "reculer pour mieux sauter" could also be translated by "to step back to avoid problems but will get onto them later anyway." Cheers!

Hi Les, join the crowd and welcome to you The residents here are a nice crowd so you soon will feel at home.
Arjan, please define a modellers model for me. I have been building models since I was knee high to a grasshopper (well, since my 6th year in any case ). I am well aware of the bloopers and glaring mistakes included sans charge with the Italeri ship but am thoroughly enjoying it.
I think the hole in the Kalotte might have something to do with a searchlight
It is present on the early builds and disappears on the S-100 class while I really can't imagine a vessel without a searchlight somewhere (in this case maybe handheld)
Cheers,
Julian


Doh..............................................Missed Robert, hello Robert, welcome to our merry group of misfits in search of a life (all nice people actually)

Hi Robert and Les - welcome to the gang!

...two little holes inside? I think, it's a power outlet to bring electricity to whatever needs the power, maybe for a searchlight or to bring a power drill to the bow, if the torpedos run out and there was a further ship to send to Neptun as a gift
Sorry, fantasy at overspeed

...and Chris, I'm very interested in your pics of radar and the antenna mounts; hope it brings us forward

Cheers,
Michael

Don't temp me Michael, I am already going to install a bicycle. A power drill would look nicer than the bow 20 mike mike Only joking Arjan.
How about some pic's of your radar array Chris? Got me all interested here.
Arjan, do you have info on how many different types of rails these boats used for DC and mines? I suppose the rails were normally stored ashore and would be pretty beat up and rusty (sounds hopeful here).
Cheers,
Julian

Good evening gents,
I feel that Michael is correct about the poweroutlet on the Kalotte. The well-known Speer pic seems to show that in this particular case the main (navigation) light was powered from this outlet (for some reason):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-2005-0002%2C_Albert_Speer_besichtigt_U-Boot.jpg
The Postwar Danish S-100 Boot also seems to have a searchlight fitted in the exact location of this outlet (and it seems to have another two searchlights on the sides). The Dragon figures are not difficult to convert but it's still quite a bit of work. Get rid of the belts, make the jackets slightly longer, trim a bit off from the lapels, add some pocket flaps and buttons and change the trouserlegs.... Still tanker uniforms are easier to convert than normal infantry uniforms. Julian, my definition of a modeller's model is one meant to be built by modellers (as opposed to one intended for rc conversion in which case detail and accuracy is usually less important)). In my opinion the Italeri kit falls into the latter category. In some respects it's even less accurate than the Revell 1/72 kit. What is the point of having one in 1/35 if it's not much better detailed and more accurate. That doesn't mean that I don't enjoy building the kit , apart from some minor frustrations but in many ways I feel it's too expensive in relation to its quality. As far as I know there were only two types of minerails and one type of depthcharge rack. As I mentioned several times before S-100 boats operating in the Channel would not have had depthcharges at all (there is not a single report of these being used ....) so the installation of the long minerails may well have been rather permanent..... The Squadron book has a nice pic of a crew working on rails and racks but this is an S-38 Class vessel that operated in the Gulf of Finland. This pic shows that even on relatively early boats the longer minerails were already used (so not a particularly late feature). It is for this reason that I doubt if the short rails would often have been used on late S-100 boats.

Cheers,

Arjan

This drawing (cut-out from the Prinz-Eugen-site) shows the 3 different rails: the short ones, as in the Italeri kit - for dc's and mines, the long and curved as on Lang and HaJü and the very short for dc's (like the ones delivered by Cammett).
I Think, the kits rails are good for the mines; there's space enough for 6 mines and thats the max. weight for the boats stern.
The weight of one EMC (Einheitsmine Typ C) was 1,135 kg; 6 EMC = 6,8t!
May be the long rail were uses for the SprB (Sprengboje = explosive buoy) with a weight of 200kg each. SprB would damage or destroy minesweepers and/or the minesweeping gear.


Michael

Hello Michael -

OH Joy! Yet another modification to make! I looked at the full plan on the Prinz Eugen site and it looks like the long rails went all the way along the sides (at least at the time of surrender). I think that I will still build mine with the shorter mine rails and keep the torpedoes. I guess the depth charge racks are out, huh? Anyone want a spare set?

Chris

Hi Chris,
Don't take my obsessive remarks too seriously, it's not my intention to be a spoil-sport. Do mount your depthcharges on "Bob" . If it's any consolation there were also S-Boot Lehrdivisions (training squads) and these vessels would no doubt have been fitted with depthcharges for instructional purposes. By the way I relocated pe part 20 (the step at the back of the pilothouse) to the left since it was no doubt intended to facilitate climbing onto the observation post ....,forget about this if you hadn't noticed .

Arjan

Hi Arjan,

(Sorry if I come back to Italeri's model Julian, but I cannot more than agree with Arjan. My feeling is that when you advertise "the world's biggest 1:35 plastic kit," you expect to find a "hell" of a masterpiece work inside the box, something worthy of the marketed product. And not a series of errors, you find step after step, that finally becomes as big as the kit itself!! But no doubt that at the end, with ingeniousity, patience, good will and research our S-boats will look just great!)

Now this being said, looking at your picture, that bit on the kalotte effectively seems to look more like it to a poweroutlet. One more cleared up point, many thanks to your pinpoint accuracy catching eyes to you and Michael!

To transform uniforms Arjan, do you use milliput or something else? I have got two sets of crew, one of 4 serving the 3.7cm flack and the other one of 3 for the 2cm flackzwilling with life jackets, etc. that I may not intend to use as I consider doing the ship being supplied at quay. That's why I'm asking! By the way, what happened to your piccies posted in the early pages, they seem to be missing?

Cheers, and to all of you: carry on the very good job. It'll become a smoking gun!

Robert

Hi Robert,
I wonder what crewfigures you've got since I don't know any Kriegsmarine figures with lifejackets. Could you show us some pics? Most serious figure converters use Magic Sculp:
http://www.elgrecominiatures.co.uk/index1.html
I'm not a truly serious figure converter and for the type of simple alterations I described, you can use normal plastic putty, thin plastic card (for pocket flaps) and thinly stretched sprue. I like using stretched sprue to hide belts and to lengthen jackets. Simply use very thin and long pieces (threads in fact) and keep winding them around the figure until you have the desired jacket length etc. After having glued the threads to the figure, I coat them with ordinary Revell putty which I thin down with a type of thinner I also use as liquid plastic cement (really cheap stuff ). If the putty has been thinned down sufficiently you can use a brush to model it. After the whole stuff has dried you can use sandpaper, files etc to finish the job. Just try it and you'll see it's not difficult at all and much cheaper than Magic Sculp. As far as the pics are concerned, my picture storage capacity is limited and besides not all of them were terribly good (quite a few superfluous ones as well). If you would like to see any just write me a personal message and I will post them for you.

Cheers,

Arjan

Hi Robert,
here's a nice link to german navy uniforms in WWII:
http://www.uboat.net/men/uniforms/index.html
or
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Uniformen/M1.htm

...and if you want to build a resupply-scene at quay, probably the navy soldiers from the supply- or ordnance-units were wearing field-gray! So you can use any german army figure you want - only the emblems like the Reichsadler on the front are not in silver; the german navy used golden ensigns (still today, but fortunately without the eagle!). Examine the links stated above.
I hope, I could help you to minimize the conversions.
Cheers,

Michael

Hello All -

Well, I have been busy and looking closely at the bridge pictures I found that I needed to do several things: extend the side armor, add machine gun pintles (as identified in a picture - in action, p. 42), remove a step, add a triangular sort of mount (for signal flags maybe and on 1 side apparently), add an additional antenna, move the observer's station, build and add a radar antenna (what am I, crazy?) add an outlet and add some sort of mount detail for the light mounted at the front of the Karolette. Well - I finished the modifications and here is my interpretation. I do like the 'busier' nature of the bridge area now. Locations of all of these were done by the TLAR system (That Looks About Right) based on photos. Fair warning: Some details were done by way of what I thought it may look and may indeed bear no resemblance to reality !

Overall shots (everything is just tacked in place):



From the top:


some details on the triangular "thingie" and the extra antenna:




Other details:



Radar - don't ask for measurements, this was a "let me see what I can concoct from the spares box effort :



The outlet from both sides (no plans, just how I thought it may look):



I hope these are useful - this has been a fun build and I truly appreciate all of the information and collaboration from everyone!!

Chris

Great work Chris,
You really managed to create an original model, one that does look much more realistic and lively than the stock kit. I like the radar, antenna, lockers and the other details. You also scratched a part in between the two starboard lockers (which happens to be present on the Revell model as well). Have you got any idea what it is?

Cheers,

Arjan

Thanks Arjan -

That is actual the kit part between the cabinets. I have absolutely no idea what it is

My next task is the sighting computer and I am considering mounting a machine gun to the side of the bridge.....

Chris

Really magnificent Chris, a completely different model
Love the extra antenne and radar detector. I also see a scratch built box just astern of the tube that would seem to fit behind Arjan's box at the panthers tail on the outside of the hull.
cheers,
Julian

Michael,
Thanks for the very instructive links you posted, especially the first one. To what concerns the jacket used on E-boats, I read a while ago there were British, taken on the beaches of Dunkirk as the Kriegsmarine was kind of short of battledresses. If you do not have the Osprey Elite Series #60 'U-Boat Crews 1914-1945', I warmly recommend it!

Chris,
When I was talking of smoking gun models to become, whatever the very long list of mistakes Italeri supplied us with, your pictures make me mouth-watering! Holy Moses. Quite impressed by your talented work, indeed... I have ordered rivets sheets lately; are there any suggestions for best applying them you could teach a novice like me? How did you manage making the lockers handles, they just look like Italeri's ones.
Have you thought of adding a flare pistol on the bridge? Would sure look great.

Now, to you, Arjan!
Thanks to you too for the link on Magic Sculp. And at your request, I made pictures of the crews in the afternoon for you.



As Chris put it with his own words, I do too truly appreciate the information and collaboration from you all. You're really helpful!!

Best, Robert

Hi Robert,
Thanks for the pics. These figures really look very interesting ,could you tell us who the manufacturer is, where they can be obtained and how much they are Many different types of lifejackets were used by the Germans, some colour examples (two pics show Luftwaffe men) :







Arjan

Hello Robert -

Good eye, indeed they are the kit handles - if you close the hatches you end up with extras that I put to use! Those are nice figures, very sharp and animated.

Spent the evening cleaning up various small attachments - I have actually clean out the large 'E' sprues so I feel like I am making progress!

Chris