Hi guys.

Stepping right out my comfort zone with this, I'm usually happily modelling WWI Aircraft.

But fate stepped in and with a £20.00 off list price I couldn't resist.

I've been trying to glean info off the web. Found a few very informative but *to me as a PT virgin* somewhat confusing.
After digesting Todd's great blog on his build of PT109 I set about demolishing my kit.

I want to backdate the 596 kit though and intend using the new Italeri accessories pack to do that. I've no real idea of what and when things changed but am looking to build something earlier as I sanded off the raised edge strip around the deck as per Todd's PT109 then when I got the Squadron walkaround realised this was a feature of the last batch of PT's at least.

A couple of points though I need to ask for info on

1. Would the controls layout be more as the 109 or as the kit. meaning the throttle quadrant location and instrument/switch arrangement.

2. I'm intending modelling her with the engine access door open, or at least half open. Now theres a window in it Italeri show as domed but I can't find clear ref to the door or the window but suspect its different from what I've gleaned. The door/hatch is different at least.


Any help would be appreciated. I'll post pics of what I've massacred so far once the sun comes back to rainy Englnd.

Thanks... in advance

Keith

Do you know which boat you would like to build?
Dave

Welcome aboard Keith,
Nice to see an expert aviator choosing to look at the "soggy side" of modeling.
Try and get hold of:
Squadron Signal's Warships in action 4007 PT boats.
Also try googling, there is a lot of of info on MTB's on-line. Weebles suggestion to decide on which ship you want to build is a good one. There are a lot of variations between the MTB's.
cheers,
JUlian

Thanks for the replies and advice guys.

I spent hours yesterday ploughing through the web looking for possible subjects and am still as confused as ever. I think removing the edging strip has opened up a real can of worms for me as I'm unsure when they began fitting it. My bad for reading a blog on an earlier PT build and diving in before checking the information... Not so easy to correct back again. (Apart from trying to persuade SWMBO to cough up for a PT-109 as a pair always look better?)

I bought the Squadron Signal On Deck for the Elco but unfortunately most the images are of PT671 and differs in a lot of detail (beautiful restoration work of course)

Anyway I'm losing my self in correcting details... got to love/hate the wealth of stuff you find on the web

The trouble with MTB's in general is that they evolved continually so there are lots of differences between ships of the same serie. Field modification doesn't make the modellers life easier either. Choosing a particular ship to model is sage advice
cheers,
Julian

Keith,
What are your concerns about the raised edge? It really doesn't exist on any of the boats. I'll be glad to help you through that if I can. As Julian said the trouble.... or the beauty of these boats is that they were constantly in a state of change as crews did whatever they could to give themselves more firepower. Those experiments in the field translated into improvements coming out of the factory.

Do you know if you want to do a Pacific, Mediterranean, or English Channel boat? The boat you referenced in the book is a conglomeration of boat features and isn't very accurate. There are some period photos in that book that are very helpful.

If you can narrow down the theatre of operations I think we can get you some ideas where you can utilize the 596 kit and the accessories kit well.

Dave

Keith,
How about this one? One of the last of the last.



Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette

Thanks for the support guys.
Gregory I'm looking to do something that saw more than a little action.

Dave/Julian I'm waiting to see just what's in the accessory pack hoping it arrives today.

What I've decided so far... probably makes no sense to those that know.

Basically I'm looking to build a late 400's early 500's boat. I couldn't work out if any earlier choices from what I've trawled up on the web but some of the late 300's looked promising though I suspect the 109 kit would suit them more as some of the superstructure is the same.
So I'm going with not too many structural mods hopefully. Looking at something Pacific as the channel camo scheme seems pretty bland in comparison and I've no idea about the Med boats really.

I took inspiration from Ed Casacia's build here but would prefer something with depth charge racks or the smoke generator bottle on the rear.

http://modelshipwrights.kitmaker.net//features/1578

So I have cut the Engine room air intake/access down, I need to make a new 40mm ammo rack for behind it to suit whichever boat I plump for (the Italeri one looks rather shallow depth. My trouble is I'm working on every single part at once.

BTW the Bronco Bofors is a work of art.

I know this is a jumbled mess so please bear with me... laughs.

Hopefully today or tomorrow I'll post some progress and don't be scared to slap me down if I made a glaring error.

Cheers Keith

Here's some thoughts for you...

There are two basic configurations for the 80 Elco. First is the 103 class which includes boats 103-196 and 314-367. The next configuration which is what the 596 kit is based around includes boats 283-372, 486-563, and 565-624. There are minor differences between boats but those are the basic layouts.

Here are a couple of examples. First one of my favorite for the pacific.
This is PT-524. It has two roll off torpedo racks and two depth charge racks (although the depth charge rack is empty in this photo). It has the last SO3 radar but you could using the conversion kit use the SO Radar which would be correct for an earlier version. It has one of my favorite paint schemes too. I can send you more information on camo patterns if you like.



Here are some examples of English Chanel boats. They were late war and have some of the same attributes you were looking for.

Keith,
Here's a little information that may be of use.
Photo of 40 mm Ammo Rack.


Mast, Early ,Mid and Late.


The different wheelhouse layouts.


If you need anything just let me know my old friend.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette


PS: I Also have drawings of the internal layouts if needed.

Some photos of the add-on set here Keith:
http://modelshipwrights.kitmaker.net/forums/207432&page=1
Your plan does not sound any more of a "jumbled mess" than some crazy things I have done over the years.
Curious to see how you approach a model ship. Your WW I biplanes are very impressive so you should be able to drop some jaws here too
Cheers,
Julian

Here's a boat that might meet your criteria. This is the 490 boat with MacArthur. She'll need some extra 20's. Not sure if this one had the Acey Ducey (.50 cal/20mm combo). I've added a second photo of the 490 boat with some of her sister ships.



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Thanks everyone for your help and support so far.

David I think I'll go for one of the 490-496 boats. I've been using a couple of shots of 490 to detail the mast. I like that depth charge arrangement.
Yes I do think it has the twin 50/ 20mm combinations on it. Something of a shortage of 20mm's but maybe cover a mocked up basic version as in the pics.

Gregory,
Yes anything on what's clearly visible in any of the hatches would be a big help. I'm kind of hoping to have a few open including the engine room access. I've a rough idea how it looks but no direct image. (hoping just to detail the opening and fade to black just beyond. Any detail shot of the wheelhouse area would be very welcome too.

A couple of points I'd love cleared up though so I can progress.

The antenna base on the left side of the wheel house. Is it semicircular in shape like the kit or the more rectangular section and is the small door behind it still there or should I remove it.

The door between the wheelhouse and chartroom. is the type with the strange centre section correct? Or should it be different.

Julian,
Yes I got the set yesterday and have been chopping it to bits. The Oerlikon is much better than the one in the 596 kit as is the single torpedo....4 would have been nice..lol
The Vosper had tempted me, in fact that was what I had in mind till I took a closer look at the PT boats.


Thanks guys for everything so far I was going to take pics of what I've got done but got far to engrossed chopping the mast to bits and reassembling it. Insane I know.

Keith

So I eventually get round to capturing some progress to prove I'm actually doing this.

The few pics I have of 490 show some differences to the kit so I've incorporated many of these, seems to have taken hours so far for little to show.

Most of what is here is dry fitted onto the hull.









Everything's very much WIP at the moment but hopefully gives you a taste of what I'm attempting to do. Finding some extra Oerlikons at a reasonable cost is an issue, and some decent torpedoes would be nice, the one in the accessory set is much better than the kit ones.

Any questions, comments, critique or suggestions and of course information would be happily received.

I thought this would be a simple build to take a break from my passion for WWI aircraft. It's far from that and that Vosper looks ever so more tempting once this is done.

Cheers Keith

Getting drawn into the magic of boat building Keith?
Nice work going on at your building site, looking very good,
cheers,
Julian

Nice work Keith. There are a number of kit corrections that can be made. The question is how deep do you want to get into it?

With respect to the .50 cal./20mm combo (aka Acey Ducey) I would suggest reaching out to Ed. As for the torpedoes you only really need 2. Late war that was a pretty common load out. You're right about the new torpedoes, they are much better than the kit example. I do wish Italeri had included 4 torps and roll off racks with this kit. Water under the bridge now.
Dave

David. Yes I do agree with what you say about the accessory set. Still I may buy another, to get that extra torpedo and another 20mm The racks would have been a good addition to the set. but there again Italeri had to stop somewhere I guess?

Reference the mods I'm getting deeper in with each day. working out from pics of other late 400's whats what generally I'm currently fabricating the antenna mount for the wheel house and spotted the curved plate beside it is differently arranged. Finding those pics answered most my questions on things apart from the Bofors mounting, it looks low on that excellent pic of 490 at sea.

Anything you would suggest mods wise would be great. It's not as simple as I first envisaged but I'm enjoying it immensely.

I'll look into the Ace Duey as I get a little further down the basic superstructure and fittings path.

As mods go, everythings almost the same but very different.



Julian,

Yes I can see this getting rather infectious.

Some progress has been made, many steps forward and almost as many back at the same time. As anyone knows me from Early Aviation forum I hardly ever take the sensible approach.




The hull/deck has been resplit and refixed to try to replicate the curves and the arch of the rear. I've still to fill and smooth a couple of anomalies caused by forcing her apart again. and the strip beneath the deck edge needs to be replaced. I braced the deck underside with basswood lengths and noggins to try to keep everything shipshape.




Mods to the wheelhouse and chartroom have been quite extensive including lowering windows remaking the dash area and superstructure. A glue spill killed the throttle levers I'd carefully cut off for repositioning, so new ones from nickel steel wire and blobs of PVA hopefully will be okay once painted. I know theres more detail to add in the wheelhouse area but finding good images so far has proved a bit hard. but I keep digging up nuggets here and there.





Some of the other parts amongst the many I'm messing up Trying to find good info on ammo locker details and such at the moment, catches hinges and locks instead of squarish blobs on over enlarged pics...

Hope these images post, this new Photoshop.... lol

Keith

You are doing a fantastic job for a "wing wiper" Keith
Gorgeous scratching as well
Cheers,
Julian

expect an update soon, not that things look that different but area's revisited as more info comes to light.

Keith

Keith,
How's this beauty progressing my old friend?
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette

Hi Gregory.

Slowly but steadily. Promised update was postponed. SWMBO bought PT-109 for me for Xmas. I opened the box to check the differences between the two kits and... well you can guess the rest.

If we get enough sun I'll snap some progress of both on the old stump but it's been rather soggy here of late.

Keith

I got out between rainbursts and shot a few pics. Hopefully soon more will follow... PT-1XX has drawn my attention away from this build but what I'm learning there is being incorporated into this build too. A lot of parts will be re-remodified as I go.



Just rough scratched interiors for the open deck hatches. I really have to thank so many guys over on the PT Boat forum & Jeff Davidsons excellent build & website at PT103.com for being so helpful with this and countless other AMS related issues I have.



The ammo locker. Hard to find evidence of this and I used a LOT of guess work. Documentation said it existed. photographically I only found one shot that suggested it did hidden away behind someones legs. (used PT-109 kit to get the dimensions etc)



The 5th rendition of the engine room hatch and air intake. Finding copies of the Elco drawings for this was just to much for AMS to leave it alone. Still hatches and catches to add and the tiny details.



The hatch for the above & one of thwe four Torpedo racks halfway through my attempt at detailing them up. All things said I think these are probably the poorest represented part of the Italeri kit. A bugger to correct to if you have Fat finger syndrome.

I got some excellent help from WEM too on clour optins for both this and PT-1xx too.

Keith

Could you please translate that last bit into English??

Wooow great job !!!!

Daniel