Howdy All,

I've decided, after much thought, to go ahead with my BWN 'Tango' Boat build. It was the very last thing I talked with my friend Garry Beebe about. And in his usual way, he told me not to delay the project, and to build it because it would make me happy.
And since these were the last words we shared together, I am taking his POSITIVE, and supportive suggestion and runnin' with it............

So, just to start things off and not get too long winded about it, I will start off by saying that what I am trying to do is take a recently released 1/35th scale Trumpeter WW II LCM (3) Landing Craft plastic kit and turing it into a Vietnam Era 'Tango' Boat. Also known as an ATC (H). The 'Nam era ATC's, or 'Tango' Boats were converted LCM (6) hulls, which were in turn converted (read, stretched) WW II LCM (3) hulls.
Here is a cross-section, and 'ghost' schematic to maybe give you a better idea of it's configuration........





I've already built my Tango up to the point of reconfiguring, or stretching, the main hull with a scale-accurate (and placement accurate) insert. This 'insert' has been glued to the front and rear hull halves, and putty and sanded down.
I have also built up the internal 'tub' and cut it down to fit in it's new 'deck-level' arrangement.
The front ramp is also built and mocked up, and I am now working on the port and starboard applique ballast additions that the later Tango boats had fitted.

Even though this build is a duplicity of eforts for me, meaning, not only am I building this for Garry, but it is also my lonely effort to generate some burgeoning interest in BWN subject matter, if there is anyone else out there who would like to join in on this wee Group Build.........I would be honoured to have you along

And I don't doubt our good friend Garry will enjoy it from his front row seat.............

Here's to you Garry

regards,

Tread.


More pics to follow..........

Pretty neat stuff there Treadhead. I can assure you I won't be building one these!!

Howdy Alan,

Many thanks for the nod at least Anyway, it looks like you've got more than your work cut out for you building all those Sherm's!

BTW, and just for the record. Regarding the depiction of the WW II LCM (3) disgorging a Sherman onto the beach on the box art of the Trumpeter kit....................never happened.
In fact, that was one of the original reasons for stretching the original LCM (3) into the much longer LCM (6) hull.
{just in case ya wanted ta know......... )

Tread.

Actually Alan, maybe because I've done so much research, but the overall project won't be that bad........

Although I an not building the watercraft I think they are very neat and can't wait to see the completed build. As you noted I am up to my necl in Shermies and way off schedule.

Hey Gorden can't wait to get started and can't to see your's. Landing craft...was that someting that they really did use (WW2 LCM) converted over to a ATC.

Now the one your planning to build, will this have the Helicopter deck and what scale are you going to build this in.

After looking at pics the only hard thing I see doing will be the rebar work around this small craft, and boy there is a lot of it :-)

edit: ok I see where it says " 1/35 Trumpeters LCM " doh

Gordo,
Can't wait to see pics. I'm sure it will come out great. Garry would be proud.

As I said before, you are peaking my interest again. Must resist the temptation...Must resist the temptation...Must resist the temptation......

Heavy you must be getting excited. Is that why you stutter posted 5 times?

Just fixed it, don't know what happened there. Guess the submit button got stuck early or something.

I am pretty excited about it, but not that much.

Howdy Joe,

Many thx for stopping by and checking out the thread. I'm glad to see more people getting interested in the BWN. I do realize this place is called Armorama, but I'm beginning to understand what the 'Warship' guys go through......

Anyway, if you're really interested in building something along these lines you can either go 1/35th scale like I did, or just duplicate the same efforts in Braille Scale if you desire since Trumpeter was good enough to produce the same kit in both scales.

To answer your question regarding the LCM conversions......the answer is "Yes". What they did was take already converted LCM (6)'s (which were converted LCM (3)'s) and continue with the craft's evolution and came up with all of the ATC, CCB, Mine Sweeper, Monitor, Refuelers, Hospital, and Zippo boats.
Also, I am indeed planning on including the helo deck above the troop compartment 'ballistic' canvas cover. And mine will include the twin access doors at the forward edge of the deck platform.
I have a handful of possibly helpful building tips I can share with you regarding the build. So if you are inclined, please stop by occassionally and I will do my best to share what I can of what I'm doing. Some of it may be 'old hat' to an accomplished modeler such as yourself (I've checked out your Gallery bud ) but with any luck I can offer some positive ingredient.
For example, most of the 'Nam era ATC boats did not have the WW II era triangular buldge on the front of the loading ramp. So, instead of using the supplied kit part that has this molded in triangle, replace it with an appropriate sized piece of sheet brass.....properly dented and dinged (the same thing goes for the outer surface of your port and starboard side applique floatation sponsons).
As far as the 'stand-off' or 'bar-armour' is concerned.....you just need to build a jig. Since the majority of this stand-off armour is repetitive, that will make the job a tad easier....

Thx for stopping by Joe.

Tread.

Hi Tread
Sounds like an ambitious project you got there Hope all goes well with it Can't wait to see it when it's done

Tread:

Certainly an interesting project and I look forward to subsequent installments.

The Trumpeter hull is too tall by about 1/4 - 3/8", and the sides (above the hull) by about 1/4". The Italeri boat is closer to scale in that regard.

Having said that, it appears you have lopped off the "tub sides" sticking above the hull & made something else, so that problem is solved ???

Is it possible the LCM(6) had a deeper hull ? By stretching it, as you have done, the over-deep hull may look about right.

I stared at my Trumpeter kit for a long time and finally decided to get an Italeri one rather than hacking away at all that stuff. But I'm using the TR one for parts where they look better than the IT parts.

John

"....it appears you have lopped off the "tub sides" sticking above the hull & made something else, so that problem is solved ???...."

That is correct John, I've already altered the tub sides to accommodate the new configuration. New 'sides' that are more in tune with the Tango boat's flat-topped walls are being made as we speak. And since your paying attention (thanks ), the new, stretched LCM (6) 'tub' bottom actually ran underneath the upper wheelhouse superstructure (as seen in the plans) and the wheelhouse itself was more centrally located thereby creating a much larger rear deck area than previous LCM's.
Now I just need to find a source for the rear mounted winch assembly..........know of any?

Tread.

Tread
Thanks for the green light and info. This is going to be a BIG build with a lot of plastic :-) I started looking around for Trumpeter hull (1/35) and the cheapest one I found was on ebay..$45.00 For that price just to use the hull, I think I will scratchbuild my own. Maybe someone here has an old built one there willing to part with.
I've already have the huey picked out, Revells 1/32 UH-1H. This kit has some nice markings and nose art.
Matt has offered to send me copys of some line drawings that he has, i'll share them with you.
I'm planning to start mine as soon as I finish Blades ejection seat. Have about 3/4 done...so sometime mid May.

Howdy Joe,

Yeah I couldn't agree more about the eventual size of this dio when it's done, but I plan to build this while at the same time staying busy with other builds. But I'll keep pecking at it.. Just like the Preacher said...."inch by inch, anything's a cinch"

About the cost of the kit, and scratching one up. I had originally thought along the same lines since very little of the original kit is used besides the main hull (although I wouldn't want to have to scratch the loading ramp if I could avoid it)).
So, a suggestion for you to consider is to build a waterline version of the boat instead of the full hull version. This would save on the price of the kit, and save on the sheer amount of plastic needed for the scratchin'.....that's how Masterpiece Models is saving on their construction and material costs of their offerings. If I remember correctly, the old Nimix Monitor kit (which was VERY expensive) was cast as a full hull version. So maybe building a waterline boat would save ya some sheckles.......just something to consider.

You also said that Matt has some line drawings?? Are these drawings that you could send me via Email? I'll take anything I can get my hands on in regards to schematics and/or drawings. The one thing I need to remember personally is, that I want to enjoy this build...not turn it into a Shermanaholic rivet-counting contest.......

As far as the accompanying Slick is concerned I think I'll be going for an earlier version of the Huey, painted up in U.S. Navy Seawolves clothing. So actually I probably shouldn't include the additional side floatation sponsons because most of the very early boats did not have these attached......but I think they add more drama to the overall 'look' of the boat so..........they're going on.

I'll try to sahre more pics of the build later.

Tread.

Is there a picture of a real Tango boat you could post? I think I know what they are but it's hard from the drawings and I know zilch about Vietnam boats except what I saw on Apocolypse Now!!!

Sure Alan, how about a pic of a dozen of them......at dock

here ya go......



Actually, the 2nd and 3rd boats on the right are Monitors, not Tangos. And in this photo none of the Tango boats have helo pads installed yet, just the ballistic 'awnings'

Tread.

EDIT:

Here's a better shot of a Tango in colour. This one's a mine sweeper.



and here's one that shows a row of them with helo pads installed....



The helo pad versions were used as medical ships, refuelers, etc.

hope these pics help.

Alan,
Check here for more on the Tango boats.

Here's a pic of a standard ATC .


and an ATC-H w/helo deck

Gordon,
I've been meaning to tell you this for some time now, I kept forgetting since there was no firm agreements on when and if there was to be a campaign for the BWN. Though, I was all for it! At any rate, a year ago or so, there was a home video produced by the Swift Boat Sailors Association that was nothing but home movies from Operation Market Time as well as from the Delta and there was EXCELLENT footage of the Tango boats and Zippos and anything else that floated over there.....and of course, PCFs. I plan to purchase one, I think it may be available on DVD now as well. If interested PM me and I'll send you the address to SBSA's Ship's Store.

I can't wait to see how your's will turn out. I've wanted to do one of these ever since I'd seen one on that video, but since the only kit available was a water line and expensive, I haven't.

Take care
Steve

Hi all!

Finally this project is moving! I am so happy for you Gordon!
With this post a lot of new pics (read reference pics) are a great help!

I think that you already did the most difficult part which is the stretching the hull - the rest is a question od presistance, specially the hull protection striped metal

Glad to be "home"

Skipper

Howdy Steven,

Wow!.....fantastic news that.

PM on the way!

Tread.

P.S. Thanks for the vote of confidence skipper. I'm not trying to force a BWN Campaign or anything here, I'm just doin' my own thing is all. And if I can generate any interest in Brown Water Navy subject matter, as well as more visitors to the Warship side of the side.....more's the better.

EDIT: Hey Gino, could you rescale your Tango pic down a tad . That way we all don't have to keep scrolling to the right to read posts? Many thx pard.

BTW, I just love that ATC (H) pic you posted. Is that the 1/35th scale build by John Carrico?

That is going to be an ambitious project. I assume from reading all the previous posts you are not going to be making the helo version but the one with the canvas covers.

Gordon,
No idea how to resize the pic. I coppied it off the net and that is how it came out.

As to the ATC-H, it is a pic of a 1/25 Radio Control boat from a company called Dean's Marines from the UK. He has a whole line of ATCs, Monitors, PBRs, etc. all in 1/24 and RC. They look great, but are pricey. Here is the link to
Dean's Marine

Howdy fellas,

Gino said......."......Gordon,
No idea how to resize the pic. I coppied it off the net and that is how it came out......."


No problem Gino, I never used to understand how to resize photos either, but now I've got at least an idea how to do it so I did it for you.

Here's your pic resized......




Shermies said............."....... I assume from reading all the previous posts you are not going to be making the helo version but the one with the canvas covers........."

To answer your question Alan, the Helo pad addition to the Tango boat is precisely why I chose to build the Tango configuration first instead of the Monitor. Even though the Monitor boat is a pretty nifty craft in it's own right, I just felt the Tango version offered more variant possibilities, as well as being a bit more 'dramatic'.

Tread.

Gordon,
Thanks. What more can we ask for...A Master Modeller and computer genius too. Good job.

Tread:

Since the upper section is out of the way, I went back & looked at my dimensions -- the TR hull is 1/8" too high at the bow, expanding to 1/2" at the stern.

I'm looking at all the pix above & the TR hull and your boat will not ride the same unless you plan to put the overage under diorama water. Even then I'd be a bit concerned that the bow lift right to show the underside, so you can't bury too much. (The reason I switched to the IT kit was although I could have hacked the hull sides, etc, the bottom just would not have looked right sitting on an LCM; probably OK in water though).

This will really be neat when done, so don't take any of my comments as neagtives, just trying to help.

I'll look for winch pix, but don't think I'll find much in my refs.

John