Gentlemen,
Please allow me to step in here again. My intial post was to verfiy if the source I'd used which was Alan Chelsey's USS Arizona, published in 1978 was correct. As it turned out, it was incorrect for whatever reasons. I have no problem with any of the evidence provided and will be painting my Arizona the measure that has been suggested thorughout the thread.
Best Wishes
Steve
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General Ship Modeling
Discuss modeling techniques, experiences, and ship modeling in general.
Discuss modeling techniques, experiences, and ship modeling in general.
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Measure 14 System and the Arizona
95bravo

Joined: November 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,242 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,064 posts

Posted: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 06:44 AM UTC
fanai

Joined: April 10, 2005
KitMaker: 2,654 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 12:28 PM UTC
Congradulations gentleman -you wonderful guys here on Armorama took a very -(can't find right word) situation-debated it and finally Steve made decision, Everyone kept his head and show a respect for each other-
Thank you
Thank you
desertmole

Joined: February 04, 2004
KitMaker: 53 posts
Model Shipwrights: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 07:48 PM UTC
Guys,
I hope my post did not come across wrong. I was trying to be a bit tongue in cheek. #:-) #:-) #:-)
This area has been debated quite extensively and while probably 99% of the posts were friendly and in good faith, there were a few invectives posted at the other site. The breadth of knowledge there was incredible, in a variety of subjects. The discussion there included the aging of photos and film, color analysis of black and white photos, living history discussions with veterans and even a suggestion to get paint chips from the Arizona's hull, or parts of the superstructure that were disposed of ashore.
The most painful thing about the debates were when a newby on SN would ask the question for about the 14th time in a couple of months, and the deebate would start again.
For myself, I like modelling and I'll admit for me, at least, close counts. I'm afraid I can't get overly a*al retentive about it. :-)
I hope my post did not come across wrong. I was trying to be a bit tongue in cheek. #:-) #:-) #:-)
This area has been debated quite extensively and while probably 99% of the posts were friendly and in good faith, there were a few invectives posted at the other site. The breadth of knowledge there was incredible, in a variety of subjects. The discussion there included the aging of photos and film, color analysis of black and white photos, living history discussions with veterans and even a suggestion to get paint chips from the Arizona's hull, or parts of the superstructure that were disposed of ashore.
The most painful thing about the debates were when a newby on SN would ask the question for about the 14th time in a couple of months, and the deebate would start again.
For myself, I like modelling and I'll admit for me, at least, close counts. I'm afraid I can't get overly a*al retentive about it. :-)
Posted: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 09:57 PM UTC
Morning Mates!
My posts were just preventive, because this could turn easily into an explosive thread
(as some of you know)
I am not saying "not to discuss"!!! It's from discussion that some of the most great ideas come to live! I am glad that this discussion was kept into reasonable levels of disagreement
Skipper
My posts were just preventive, because this could turn easily into an explosive thread

(as some of you know)
I am not saying "not to discuss"!!! It's from discussion that some of the most great ideas come to live! I am glad that this discussion was kept into reasonable levels of disagreement

Skipper
desertmole

Joined: February 04, 2004
KitMaker: 53 posts
Model Shipwrights: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, August 15, 2005 - 05:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Btw, when looking up "measure 1 arizona" on google, this thread is right on top of the results out of 8,168,684,336 web pages, LOL.
And how much do you want to bet that 7,000,000+ of the links lead to Russian Porn Sites???? :-) :-) :-)
thathaway3

Joined: September 10, 2004
KitMaker: 1,610 posts
Model Shipwrights: 566 posts

Posted: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 09:46 AM UTC
I gotta believe the answer is yes. The reference material indicates it was SUPPOSED to be, but of course the enforcement of that would wind up coming down the the ships CPT or a flag officer's inspection.
The information from the Ship Camouflage site for Measure 22 (in which the Missouri was at the end of the war), says all horizontal surfaces are to be "Deck Blue 20-B", and it goes on to say that except for subs and carriers, wooden decks are to be darkened to this color also.
Seems strange to do that, but according to the reference material, that's what it was.
Here's the link:
http://www.shipcamouflage.com/measure_22.htm
Tom
The information from the Ship Camouflage site for Measure 22 (in which the Missouri was at the end of the war), says all horizontal surfaces are to be "Deck Blue 20-B", and it goes on to say that except for subs and carriers, wooden decks are to be darkened to this color also.
Seems strange to do that, but according to the reference material, that's what it was.
Here's the link:
http://www.shipcamouflage.com/measure_22.htm
Tom
desertmole

Joined: February 04, 2004
KitMaker: 53 posts
Model Shipwrights: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 10:25 PM UTC
Actually David Martinez, Pearl Harbor historian, said that in his dives to the wreck, the deck was unpainted or stained. Check out this post on 1250 Home:
http://members.boardhost.com/jacobs1250/msg/25763.html
Hope this helps.
http://members.boardhost.com/jacobs1250/msg/25763.html
Hope this helps.
desertmole

Joined: February 04, 2004
KitMaker: 53 posts
Model Shipwrights: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 10:31 PM UTC
modelguy2

Joined: March 09, 2002
KitMaker: 818 posts
Model Shipwrights: 278 posts

Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 02:27 AM UTC
The steel horizontal surfaces were painted the same color as the rest of the ship-not blue.......Mike T
thathaway3

Joined: September 10, 2004
KitMaker: 1,610 posts
Model Shipwrights: 566 posts

Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 03:13 AM UTC
Ooops! My bad. I forgot you were specifically asking about the Arizona.
RTFT.
The "specification" for Measure 14 states the same thing as Measure 22, that is, that horizontal surfaces (decks) were SUPPOSED to be Deck Blue, 20-B. But of course the issue is whether the ship had actually been painted to fully comply, and that's a different issue altogether.
Sorry for the confusion on my part.
(Later Edit: Besides, it doesn't seem likely that Arizona was in Measure 14 as John Snyder and others have pointed out.)
Tom
RTFT.
The "specification" for Measure 14 states the same thing as Measure 22, that is, that horizontal surfaces (decks) were SUPPOSED to be Deck Blue, 20-B. But of course the issue is whether the ship had actually been painted to fully comply, and that's a different issue altogether.
Sorry for the confusion on my part.
(Later Edit: Besides, it doesn't seem likely that Arizona was in Measure 14 as John Snyder and others have pointed out.)
Tom
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