Becouse i have problems posting topic in right part of the forum ( destroyer section - when i try to post a topic i get the massage im not the member ) i will post it here!

I have on order Trumpeter Sullivans 1/350 Fletcher class destroyer, is it posible to convert that destroyer in to early war tipe of Fletcher class destroyer ( 42-43 era )

Hi Tomaz

I don't know what is the configuration the Trumpeter model comes, but USS The Sullivans DD-537 started his carreer as a 1942 Fletcher Class Destroyer...

Check this info:
DD-537 DANFS

The Sullivans Photos

Hope this helps
About the posting problem.... Jim is working on this little issues

Skipper

As far as I know the main issue is the shape of the bridge. I don't know the details but I know some Fletcher's had round and some square bridges. If the Sullivan's had the same shape bridge as the Fletcher kit you're pretty well home free.

No. The Sullivans was a square bridge, and from what I can see from the box art, she'll represent a late-war Fletcher with the upgraded AA fit.

If you want to build an early war Fletcher, you'll need to pick up the Tamiya kit...which is nicely done.

Well, when i get my Destroyer, i will definitly know more about it!
I was thinkig about Tamiya kit, but, in Slovenia there is no importer for Tamiya kits so if i want one a have to order it by post, but for the Trumpeter there is importer and i can get 10-15% discount if I preorder kit. So Trumpeter is the name of the game!

But for Musashi kit, Tamiya is ONLY show in town!

Tomaz I'll bet I'm not alone if offering to help you get what you need. For example Lucky Model has the Tamiya Fletcher for $16.60 USD. If you can't buy directly from them perhaps somebody here can buy one and send it to you?

Ordering by mail is no problem for me. Usualy i order stuff i cant get in Slovenia from Hannants Uk, postage is +15% of the price of the model, so US is even more +% not to mention custom serive , since we are in EU, i dont pay custom tax for kits that was bougth in EU, but if i order stuff from US everithing what is above 22$ including postage I pay 20% tax ,
But We do have one nice distributer of Aires,Eduard, CMK an MPM stuff with very nice prices, usualy 15% lover than the original AIRes or Eduard home page price tag.

Just be aware that the 5" gun mounts in the Tamiya kit are badly under-scale. You'll want to pick up the 5" single mounts produced by L'Arsenal, and perhaps the turned brass 5" barrels they also produce. We have both in stock.

Cheers,
John Snyder
White Ensign Models
http://WhiteEnsignModels.com

WEM crewmember on board. Interesting!

There are two very basic questions you need to ask in building a Fletcher class destroyer. The first is which hull number/ship are you going to build and the second is when during the war are you representing the state of the ship.

I'm certain Martin is correct about the Sullivans having a square bridge. Generally speaking most later ships of the class had this, but because of a number of factors, I don't know if you can say that all hull numbers after "XXX" were square bridge.

The trick is research and photos of the specific ship you want. Even if you have a square or round bridge, depending on what year you're depicting, either version could have any one of a number of AA configurations.

The Tamiya kit as has been said is a pretty good one and is absolutely a great starting point for an early war round bridge example.

And John is right about the 5" mounts, the L'Arsenal ones are quite nice.

I do know that there is a square bridge conversion set available for the Tamiya version, and I have that as well as I plan on making a very late war square bridge with the final AA fit including the two quad 40mm amidships. I'm still not sure exactly which hull number I'm going to pick, but since I believe the Sullivans eventually got that update, that may be a good choice.

If the Trumpter version IS a square bridge, and you want to "back fit" it , I don't know if there's a kit for that, since the Tamiya already comes that way. But since I'm not going to be using those parts, if they'll help, I'll be happy to let you have them.

I won't be starting that build until I'm done with my DDD 2 build, and THAT ain't happening until the Missouri is done. But just let me know and we can make it happen.

Tom

Hi Tomaz
Yes john Snyder is a regular contributor with some interesting and excellent resources - He also passes the good news from WEM for our pleasure!

Skipper

Square bridge and round bridge ships are mixed up over the entire run of Fletchers.

As Tom mentioned, you need to determine what ship and what specific time frame you want to represent.

The differences between the Tamiya kit and upcoming Trumpeter kit are as follows:

Bridge shape - Trumpeter is mid-late square bridge, Tamiya is early round bridge.

Forward AA guns - Trumpeter will have Mk I 40mm in enlarged tubs, Tamiya has 20mm in smaller tubs.

Funnel platforms - different configurations between the two.

Midship 40mm mounts - Trumpeter will have them, Tamiya doesn't

Depth charge racks and K-guns - Tamiya has the individually stored depth charges, Trumpeter will have K gun storage racks.

After 40mm position - High on the Tamiya kit, low on the Trumpeter kit.

Fantail 20mm tub - varies from ship to ship, usually a heart-shaped dual mount tub on later ships.

That being said, I've seen square-bridged Fletchers with no waist 40mm mounts and 20mm mounts in forward tubs.

There's a huge variety of configurations you can choose from.

There is no late-war round bridge version of the Fletcher, although you could kitbash a Tamiya and Trumpeter kit together I suppose.

Jeff

Tom,

When you decide to do your Emergency AA fit Fletcher, let me know. I'll provide you with a database of info as well as tons of photos and detail drawings.

I'm pretty sure the Sullivans got her AA fit, but I don't think she ever got back into combat with it.

The square bridge conversion set was from Tom's Modelworks, and it's not in production anymore, I spoke to Tom about it last month.

Jeff

That is very usefull information.
When i get my Destroyer i will decide what to build, wich name and so on! Im certain i will use eduard PE set for my first ship, but now i have to finnish of with F-E Tiger II 1/32 , and Corsair 1/48.

Jeff, thanks for the offer on the info and drawings. I've got some stuff, but there's no such thing as TOO much reference material! I have the Raven's book as well as the Squadron "Fletcher Class In Action" but once you've decided that what you want to build is a square bridge with the Emergency AA fit (which is my plan) now you have to wade through ALL the photos to find the ones that are specific to THAT configuration.

Having the drawings will be a great help!!

Sounds like I got the Tom's Conversion set right on time. I've made it a habit to buy those kinds of things when I find out about them and think they are something I'd probably want to incorporate into a kit. I can't tell you how many times I've done that and been so glad, because even though it may sit in my basement for YEARS, they disappear from production. (I bought a conversion kit for the A7-D to convert it to the two seat A7-K and those disappeared a LONG time ago!)

I am pretty sure you're correct about the Sullivans. Reading the "log", it sees as if she went into the yard for the re-fit and was there when the war ended. Since I'm interested in that particular configuration, it will be extremely helpful to be able to know for certain exactly which ships by Hull Number, WITH the square bridge, actually saw some action. In this particular case, I'm going after the configuration since I find that interesting, rather than being interested in a particular ship by name.

Tom

I'll give you the list tonight when I get home and have access to my book.

Jeff

I have the list...email me at jherne-at-finescale.com and I'll send it over. It's an Excel spreadsheet.

If anyone else wants it, email me. It lists hull number, name, commissioning date, bridge type, camo schemes (where known), date of loss (if sunk) and AA fit.

Jeff

Thanks for the offer Jeff

A true spreader of the word
Watch your mailbox!

Thanks again

Skipper

Sounds to me like getting both versions is in order. Kinda like getting a Panther D and a Panther G for the collection.

To do either a mid-war square bridge or a late-war round bridge, you basically have to bash two kits together.

That being said, you'll still have to make modifications to the round bridge to get a late-war configuration.

This still leaves the Emergency AA fit question unanswered, since it appears that The Sullivans is going to be pre-'45 configuration (she never returned to the combat zone with this AA fit).

Fortunately, only a handful of ships returned to the combat zone with this AA fit, and you won't see a Fletcher wearing a dazzle with that AA fit.

I'm currently working on a 3-Fletcher build for the magazine, so I'll hopefully have room to explain all the variances in the class between 42 and 45.

But until that comes out, email if you need anything.

Jeff

The Tamiya Fletcher builds up as the ship was originally configured when first launched. It is the round type bridge high director. The Trumpy kit of the Fletcher has the later square low director bridge and the parts to build both the basic mid war and late war AA fits. That meaning mid war, basicly with twin 40 mounts amidship, possibly twin 40's forward of the bridge and two torpedo launch stations. Late war mod, forward tubes landed and quad 40's and their director station replaced the forward tubes. Numerous other small detail mods for mid and late war Fletchers and they could be ship specific, refer to reference material if you have a specfic ship and time period you are wanting to build. The ships were built at several yards all around the country and each shipyard did have some leeway during construction to alter the the basic plans depending on suppliers availability of material and equipment so there can be many small differences between ships even coming form the same yard. There was an over lap period where some round bridge ships were too far along in their build to justify converting to the later square bridge or even the latest AA fit towards the end of the war. As I write this I can't think of any round bridge types that recieved the late war AA upgrade, I believe at best they may have gotten the twin 40 mounts amidship and maybe a few got the twin 40's forward. Again, refer to reference material for the specific ship. Hope this helps.

Addendum:
I have the Anatomy of the Ship, The Sullivans by the Naval Institute Press and while lacking in the photo department it does have many plan drawings of the Fletcher square bridge type that would be helpful. If you can find a copy it is well worth the money for the drawings alone.

I received an extensive data base file back in April from Jeff in which he indicated the ships in the class which received the Emergency AA re-fit and according to this list there were several Round Bridge types which got this conversion, including the Fletcher herself and the next three ships in the class.

According to Jeff's file, there were 50 ships in the class which received the refit, with 2 more undergoing the refit at war's end.

This consists of 13 round bridge (plus one being converted), and 37 square bridge (plus one being converted).

I've got specific hull numbers if anyone wants them.

Tom

Was that round bridge's with the quad 40's amidship? I've seen photos of the round bridge with twin 40's but not not the quads. Please post photos.

The "Emergency AA re-fit" did consist so far as I understand, of the addition of a pair of quad 40mm mounts amidships, requiring the deletion of one set of torpedo tubes. The table Jeff provide me indicates all the ships in the class which received the Emergency AA refit, and there are a number of older round bridge ships listed. The hull numbers he provided are the following round bridge ships:
DD 445 Fletcher
DD 446 Radford
DD 447 Jenkins
DD 448 LaVallette
DD 473 Bennett
DD 478 Stanly
DD 481 Leutze (being converted after being damaged off Okinawa)
DD 499 Renshaw
DD 502 Sigsbee
DD 550 Capps
DD 577 Sproston
DD 578 Wickes
DD 580 Young
DD 592 Howorth


Looking over the list, I recognized the USS Renshaw as the ship which was next to the Missouri in New York Harbor on Navy Day in 1945. The attached photo (not the best) seems to show her with the quad 40mm amidships.

http://www.destroyerhistory.org/fletcherclass/499renshaw_01.html

I wasn't able to find them on the web, but I have some much better pictures of that event in my Missouri references at home and I should be able to confirm that tonight.

Tom

The forward torpedo tubes were landed and replaced with an oval-shaped platform for the the Mk.51 Fire Control Directors for the Mk.2 40mm. 40mm mounts required a director away from the mount because of the excessive vibration of the weapon when firing. This platform is readily seen onboard the USS Kidd in Baton Rouge, she still retains her Emergency AA fit configuration.

I've studied the DANFS entries for all those ships that received the quad 40mm upgrades, and it appears to me that only a few returned to the combat area before the end of the war. A few ships were used to engage shore positions, IIRC a couple shelled Wake Island as they transited the area.

Other than that, I have no records of any of the ships entering combat, nor do I have any record of any aircraft being downed with ships in this configuration.

Jeff