Great to see this is still moving forward Arjan! Exceptional work! Love the added bolt detailing on the tubes! Well done!

Hey Arjan, very well done. Your build blog has inspired me on to get some more done to my Vosper. The dual 20 and acc's that David did up will be on the ordering list next month. Great job you did David. With that set up and the P.T. acce's set from Italeri I can get done the mods I wanted. I look forward to reading and seeing more of your project as you go. bob d.

Hi Bob, do you intend to convert your Italeri kit into one of the Jacob's craft? There appear to be quite a few detail differences between MTB 378 I'm building and the late Jacob's MTB's. I would love to see someone build a Vosper with the Elco style radar mast.

Regards,

Arjan

Hey Arjan, I plan on doing an early war survivor Vosper. The Elco radar mast from the Italeri acc. kit will be used, (late dome) the U.S. style life raft and the 20 m.m. Ork up front with the splinter shield. Add the 2 single 303's on the torpedo tubes too. Also I am adding the 3rd rudder. I found a few sets of caboose bench covers, rail road stuff, at the L.H.S. which look pretty close to the mattese type that was used. So along with the dual 20 amidships, it will be one mean looking mother. I was going to leave on the British mast and all but was told when the U.S. type radar mast was added the top part was removed. I added an engine room of sorts with lights and now since I have the figures I can procede to finish up the inside and close her up. Been slow going as I had missing and short shot parts and the other end took a very long time to replace them. Still waiting on the boat hooks to be replaced. And of course, the anticipated job of adding all the bolt and washer detail to the tubes is coming up, happy happy joy joy on that. bob d.

Today I noticed that quite a few "new" MTB photos on the IWM site have been digitised recently. Fortunately among these the pics I was particularly looking for .The well-known pic of what I presume is MTB 378 with its twin Oerlikon. If this is indeed 378 then it appears an American radar mast was added later in its career (looks as if its position differs from the usual set up) :



MTB 378's commander Lieutenant G.P.H. James (on the left):



These pics show a different Oerlikon stand made of wooden slats. So contrary to what I had assumed earlier this cannot be MTB 378 but must be MTB 403:






Some other pics new to me (all taken in Leghorn):





For more Leghorn pics I suggest visiting the IWM site yourselves.

Arjan

Curious as to what type of boat is the one with the 40mm on the stern? Al

Hi All,

As far as I know there were at least three 78' Higgins MTB's in the general area:

MTB 420 former PT90
MTB 421 former PT91
MTB 422 former PT92

Probably MTB 420, though, because it's in the other pic I posted. See:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/05090.htm
http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/05091.htm
http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/05092.htm

Regards,

Arjan

Thanks Arjan, Thought that it might have been a Higgins. Never saw a photo of one in British service before, mounting the British style torpedo tubes. Al

I must take back what I wrote earlier. The vessel with the wooden stand cannot be MTB 403 because this boat had a radar mast on the port side and this would definitely show in the pics. Perhaps it is MTB 378 after all, maybe its stand was later upgraded to a metal one . Of course it could also be one of the other Annapolis boats but there is no photographic evidence that these were ever fitted out with twin Oerlikons.

Arjan

I should add another Higgins MTB to this list. MTB 423 former PT 93 :

http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/05093.htm

This pic was also taken at Leghorn:



This pic also seems to show two 77' Elcos, MTB 309 (ex PT 51) and MTB 313 (ex PT 55)if I read the numbers correctly :



The IWM collection has two pics of Annapolis Vospers serving in the Royal Indian Navy (17th MTB Flotilla, of which MTB 281 is one) :




Arjan

Hi everyone,
I've been following this thread for a while having got interested in MTB's at last years IPMS Nationals, when I saw a copy of 'Coastal Craft History volume 1 Vosper MTB's".
Have done a load of research and settled on building either MTB410 or 411 from the 28th Flotilla in the Adriatic 1945.
So far I have the big Griffon set, Italeri PT Conversion(SO Radar and Life raft, and maybe Depth charge racks if confirmed) set, Shapeways twin 20mm Oerlikon gun and mount, as well as the Italeri Vosper.
Plans of this series of boats are practically non existent, but piecing details from various books,and plans (including MTB 363,723 and Post war Italian Mas424) I have nearly completed a deck plan drawing for the conversion work.

However I am tempted to do the US built Vosper in Leghorn/Malta with the SO Radar mast behind the Bridge not beside it. On page 109 of'Allied Torpedo Boats' it identifies it as a Jacobs Yard boat of the 396-411 series, but having read this thread there appears o be some speculation about whether it is an Annapolis Yard boat of the 371 to 378. The bandstand looks the same as seen on MTB 410 and 411 and it doesn't have the cowl vents sticking through the stand as on the above photo's of the MTB reloading a torpedo at leghorn from the recently released IWM collection. These cowls can also be seen either side of the Vickers mount of MTB 281 as well which were also Annapolis boats but from an earlier batch I believe.
So if I had to make a choice I would go for an 27th Flotilla US Vosper MTB396 - 403 which has had its SO radar mast moved and a USN style CSA smoke emmitter added to its stern, rather than an Annapolis boat. However that's just my guess and I could be persuaded otherwise!
Also has anyone noticed in the photo of the above Vosper (with SO mast behind the bridge ) that in the top Right hand corner there appears to be another 396-403 Vosper with mast behind the bridge.
Looking forward to the replies, apologies for lack of photo's, they never seem to come out when I post, and thanks for a very interesting thread.
Charlie

Having nearly finished my S-Boot I once more turned my attention to the Vosper that had been gathering dust on a shelf. Let me start with a very belated reply to Charlie (sorry about that). Both the Vospers in this pic with the radar mast at the rear of the bridge are Annapolis boats (371-378) :



If you look closely you can make out the vents protruding from the band stand (slots had apparently been cut into the band stand to accommodate these. I believe these particular midship vents were not present on Jacob's boats. I'm sure that the boat in the foreground (behind the Higgins boat) is MTB 378, it has the same smoke generator and even the jerrycan visible in the earlier pics. The Annapolis boats also appear to have had a more elaborate camo scheme (white torpedo tube outlines painted on the deck), this white outline can be seen in the Leghorn pic above :



The other Vosper also shows a white camo curve on the hull side towards the stern, also a feature I think not present on Jacob's boats :



My hunch is that the other Annapolis Vosper is probably MTB 375 or MTB 376. It also makes sense that the Annapolis Vospers were upgraded in the radar department, after all their British radar equipment was decidedly inferior. The Jacob's boats already had the SO radar so why go to the trouble of repositioning these.

Some pics of my progress and a mockup of the radar position :








Regards,

Arjan

The radar mast was not in the center of the bridge (this would have made access to the bridge very difficult) but offset to starboard. Once you realize this it can also be confirmed by the position of the mast of the other Vosper in the Leghorn pic. I think that the port wall locker at the rear of the bridge was probably also removed to make access easier.

A pic of MTB 398, built by Jacob's also shows white outlines on and around the torpedo tubes. Jacob's boats also had the rear bridge wall and door (I had previously assumed this might also be a characteristic feature of Annapolis boats).

Arjan

I have built the rear bulkhead and the door of the bridge. I will add some Archer rivets to the hinges later. I think my door is slightly too wide judging from the few available pics. How the radar mast was fitted to the bridge/deck will probably remain a mystery if no new pics emerge.








Arjan

Arjan,

Your Vosper has been a pleasure to watch, and she's looking better than ever!

Unfortunately, I see that Photobucket has wiped your older pics...



...any chance of reposting them?

Hi Tim, thanks for your comment! I was so disgusted with Photobucket's ransom tactics I deleted my account. I don't mind posting a selection of these pics once more. I will also post some of the wartime ads with their strange mix of propaganda, patriotism and outright commercialism .










Annapolis ads :






Herreshoff (whose boats, by the way, do not appear to have had the rear bridge bulkhead/door):




Harbor Boat Building :



Suppliers of various parts :













Regards,

Arjan

Thanks, Arjan. Your model in progress is already stunning... and those ads... hilarious! Thanks again for reposting them.

I've made some bigger hatches for the foredeck, I constructed some fairleads and made a mushroom vent for the roof of the chart house. I also built a couple of figures from the Italeri set. I made them slightly taller by gluing disks of styrene in between the torso and lower body.






Arjan

Yesterday I added the 4 torpedo support brackets and the two depth charge racks. I decided to use the original Italeri British torp support brackets because building some in the American pattern simply involved far too much work It's remarkable how much less cluttered the deck appears compared to the British built Vospers. Talking of which, I have no idea where the boat hooks were stored on the Annapolis boats, at any rate not on the foredeck I think.

I decided to permanently glue in the removable part of the deck I constructed because this made attaching the torp support brackets so much easier. Besides, since the whole deck is now removable apart from the foredeck, this extra removable section was no longer needed anyway. By the way, the deck is now fixed with neodymium magnets.

All I have to do now is add some more bolt detail to the torp tubes and then I can finally apply a coat of primer. I'm looking forward to see the patchwork of white styrene pieces and putty disappear . After that I will add the Oerlikons which still need a lot of sanding to get rid of their grainy appearance. Thing is that I had them printed in the grainy light and strong stuff which isn't actually very suitable for detailed pieces such as 1/35 guns. I won't order a set in the transparent stuff because I feel the price is prohibitive.







edit: the pic of the torpedo tube I posted in the above seems to show the boat hooks might actually have been stowed under the torpedo tubes.This would explain why they don't seem to show in the various pics.

Arjan

I couldn't resist the temptation to apply a uniform coat of primer, I haven't painted the torp tubes because they aren't finished yet.







Arjan

Some pics of the paint work, there is still a lot to be done because it's a quite complicated camo pattern.







Arjan

Arjan,

Nice work with putting on the camo. She really looks sweet.

Mark

Thanks Mark ! I couldn't resist trying some numbers from a 1/35 Tamiya German tank decal sheet. I think the size is about right (a bit too small) and so is the style of the numbers.




In hindsight I think I should have removed the metal strips on top of the front section of the torpedo tubes (I don't think these were present on any American built Vospers). I haven't glued the tubes in place yet but removing the strips involves too much work now. A pic showing some of the bolt detail I added :



A thing I'm not sure about is the two strips of anti skid paint on the foredeck, these strips were also present on early American built Vospers but I'm not 100% sure MTB 378 still had them. I'm quite sure that they were not present on the late Jacob boats.


Regards,

Arjan

Some pics of my progress :







Arjan

I wonder if there are any photos/drawings in the Lambert/Ross coastal forces book showing the base of the whip aerial on the port side of the bridge ? Clear photos/drawings of the Mark VIIIA Oerlikon mount would also be appreciated. I noticed that the sights of the single Oerlikons were quite different from the standard Oerlikon sights.



Arjan