General Ship Modeling
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350 scale Akagi
Karybdis
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Posted: Monday, September 22, 2008 - 09:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I think I'm just going to have to start buying lottery ticks. That way I can get a huge house to put all this in and hire Dade to help me build some of these beauties



Yeah, the girl isn't too happy with how much the models have started taking over the joint. Having to put up a dedicated shelf for the 1/250 Musashi in the bedroom (it's the only place left) would have her howling if the Musashi didn't look so good. Still, the understanding is that our next place is gonna have a nice large display room so that I'm not cramming models into every available nook and cranny. It also doesn't help that living in FL, we have no basement, so models that would normally get stored there are all over the condo.

I figure I can probably maneuver another four or five 1/350 ships into the case, depending on what those ships are... Destroyers and escorts, no problem. Heavy BBs and CVs... Uhh....
CaptSonghouse
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Posted: Monday, September 22, 2008 - 10:05 AM UTC
Well Dade, at least you build just the ships. For me, dioramas carry the price of much larger footprints!

--Karl
#027
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Posted: Monday, September 22, 2008 - 10:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I figure I can probably maneuver another four or five 1/350 ships into the case, depending on what those ships are... Destroyers and escorts, no problem. Heavy BBs and CVs... Uhh....


Tell me about it. I've got a 1/72 Type VII and Gato plus a 1/350 Alabama. Good thing that everyone at work, including my boss, knows that I build models and is ok with me displaying them in my office.

Kenny
blaster76
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 04:54 AM UTC
Tracy:

When I said less complex I was meaning just pure plastic kit. The BB's have those bridge and mid deck funnel assemblys while the Akagi has a large flat deck with a small island and some AA alongside. Now when you look at the underside bracing PE stuff, well, I agree....that changes everything. Of course now all the price are jacked up on the battleshps coming out, so it really isn't a huge a difference in base price for just the OOB kit. I bought the Nagato and Kongo for less than $150, but lately even the pre-order discount places are running around $180 - 190 for a BB.
blaster76
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 05:20 AM UTC
I don't know if ya'll missed this, but the 350 scale Haruna is out and in it they are including another different figure set . I think you can get the figure set for around $10 it looks to be mainly figures for manning AA guns. But they are 3d. So, we have the Kongo and Haruna with a Kirishima right around the corner. That will probably mean next year a Hiei and probably a full BB Hyuga. I guess a few carriers and maybe someone will toss in a Fuso or Yamashiro for good measure. Looks like all the capital ships will eventually be made. Kind of like in the mid 70's when all the 700 scale stuff came out. (Flashback----BB's and AC's ran $4 a pop, Crusiers $2 a pop and others DD's and subs and stuff $1 a pop) I forgot how many airplanes you got, 6 or 8 of each, but if you wanted more you could buy a box for $1
Karybdis
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 06:13 AM UTC
Not one, not two, but THREE manufacturers are supposedly working on a 1/350 Fuso. I want a Yamashiro though, so I hope one of the three bangs that out.

On the carrier front, we know there's the Shokaku and apparently Hasegawa wants to do the 1/350 Akagi in its triple-decker format also. Huh... A little bird tells me we can probably look forward to a 1/350 IJN escort carrier or two in 2010.
goldenpony
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 08:48 AM UTC
Well, what is clear is the model companies are making a monster investment and we are doing the same on our ends.

With so many good ships coming due it is great. Now if only I could get a rasie here at my real job.

Clanky44
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 10:10 AM UTC
This is insane!... I am really going to have to make some hard choices in the next year. There's no way that I'll be able to afford (or for that matter divest myself) all of these upcomming kits. My current Nagato has cost me so far...

Kit $190
Grade Up set A $50
Grade Up set B $35
Super Grade Up set $80
Display case $80
Fukuya casemate and AA guns $45

for a total of what $600 if you include taxes and shipping. At this sort of pace I'll probably choose two of these models, and definitely none until I finish my Nagato. I'm thinking the Fuso/Yamashiro and one of the two Akagi's, preferably the three decker... anyone else thinking along the same lines?

Frank
Karybdis
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 12:01 PM UTC
Just a quick note- HWJapan has a nice big shot of the three PE frets for the super kit. Behold... girders! Whew!



HWJapan has everything on pre-order for 10% off. Here is the actual link to the Super set page...

http://www.hwjapan.com/sh/HAS08091706.aspx
Clanky44
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 12:09 PM UTC
Thanks Dade, but would you kindly translate their translation?!? ....something about delicate fruits...


Quoted Text

You can enjoy fully a delicate expression which is full of the feeling of a fruit of an etching part no one but.



Frank
TracyWhite
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 03:14 PM UTC

Quoted Text

When I said less complex I was meaning just pure plastic kit. The BB's have those bridge and mid deck funnel assemblys while the Akagi has a large flat deck with a small island and some AA alongside.



Yes, but if you look the flight deck on the Akagi is quite a few levels higher than a BB, and underneath that flight deck is a lot of complex shapes, even without the girders directly under the flight deck. We also don't know for sure the extent of the hangar bay detailing. It may not have big caliber guns, but I think that it's size and complexity is a fair factor in price.
Karybdis
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 04:22 PM UTC
Sure Frank...


Quoted Text

They are a large-sized etching part only for Akagi (three sheets), and the set of the mantle let for equipment made from a metal. For the contents of an etching part, the "beam" and rear support parts which can also be called greatest highlight of Akagi are a center. You can enjoy fully a delicate expression which is full of the feeling of a fruit of an etching part no one but.



"This set includes three large frets of photo etch for replacing plastic parts with brass. The contents consist of the underside girders and beam supports which are some of the most noticeable aspects of the Akagi. The fruits of your labor will be realized with the added delicate details that this set of photo etch provides."

How about that?

I deal with HWJapan all the time- their prices are good, and their shipping costs are competitive. Plus, you get points from each purchase that you can save up and use as a discount on future orders as 1 point = 1 yen. Of course, their descriptions are done with an auto translator, so they're not great, but as HWJapan points out, read about the product elsewhere (like here at MSW), but order from them.

Tamiya and Bandai stuff is *really* cheap there at 20% off the Japanese price, which is in itself usually much lower than the American price. Even after shipping, HWJapan can save tons when you buy Tamiya or Bandai.
CaptSonghouse
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 06:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks Dade, but would you kindly translate their translation?!? ....something about delicate fruits...


Quoted Text

You can enjoy fully a delicate expression which is full of the feeling of a fruit of an etching part no one but.



Frank



Hi Everyone!

The language on the image takes the tone of advertising with frequent uses of superlatives to help sell the product.

The gist in the main block of text states that is is the 1:350 Aircraft Carrier Akagi exclusive parts set. It features 3 frets, two measuing approximately 282mm by 158mm and one that is approximately 282mm by 12(the image runs off the margin).

The sets depict the metal structure of the ship with emphasis on the after supporting structure for the flight deck.

The remainder of the visible wording expresses the benefits of the fine, delicate, and subtle representation of the structures for the hobby crafting and what a "masterpiece" this set is.

The notice also states that it will be put on the market simultaneously with various other detail sets.

--Karl
blaster76
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 06:25 AM UTC
Thanks for the info Dade. I checked them out and they were something in the nature of 1000 yen cheaper on their pre-order price for the Ise. I've got until mid October to place my pre-order . Sure hope I can get a little OT before then. I know they are getting ready to can this gu at work so maybe I can pick up an extra 8 or so. It grieves me greatly to have to pass on the Akagi, just looking at the PE for the deckgirders is totally awe inspiring. But to get that kit with all the necessary trimmings would cost me the Ise and Repule at least. I figure I can get the GMM Generic Battleship set for the Ise and will have to see the under flight deck of kit. I think a small pe set would probably take care of it, but I really don't know what is under there
CaptSonghouse
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 06:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for the info Dade. I checked them out and they were something in the nature of 1000 yen cheaper on their pre-order price for the Ise. I've got until mid October to place my pre-order . Sure hope I can get a little OT before then. I know they are getting ready to can this gu at work so maybe I can pick up an extra 8 or so. It grieves me greatly to have to pass on the Akagi, just looking at the PE for the deckgirders is totally awe inspiring. But to get that kit with all the necessary trimmings would cost me the Ise and Repule at least. I figure I can get the GMM Generic Battleship set for the Ise and will have to see the under flight deck of kit. I think a small pe set would probably take care of it, but I really don't know what is under there



Of course since these kits are being released by established companies as long-term products (ie not as short-run releases) they should (famous last words!) be around for years. This can allow folks like us to juggle the purchasing over a span of time and permit us to eventually get the cake, and eat it too!

--Karl
goldenpony
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 07:03 AM UTC
Ah, somebody know knows Japanese, now this could come in really handy!


I did learn the hard way when I did my first order from HW, watch shipping. I left it as espress and YIKES! Sure I got it in 6 days, but that hurt the pocketbook.

Hmmm, mid October to pre-order the ISE. *I must resist*

Karybdis
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 07:43 AM UTC
For what it's worth, Jim, for Japanese, we already had Mr. Imazumi and me (well, the fiancee actually, but hey).

And yes indeedy, ALWAYS watch that shipping!
Karybdis
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 08:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Of course since these kits are being released by established companies as long-term products (ie not as short-run releases) they should (famous last words!) be around for years. This can allow folks like us to juggle the purchasing over a span of time and permit us to eventually get the cake, and eat it too! l



Be careful though as some of these kits are limited in nature. For example, Hasegawa has said that the Mutsu is going to be a limited run kit and once it's gone, it's gone. There's talk that when/ if they do the 1/350 triple deck Akagi, it may be the same.

A side point is that even if the kits keep going, sometimes the aftermarket doesn't. Shinsengumi and Fukuya, for example, don't keep lines in production as long and have very short product rotations. So in many cases, it's good to buy all your aftermarket stuff first and worry about the kit later. I have decks and barrels for ships I don't even own.
CaptSonghouse
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 11:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Of course since these kits are being released by established companies as long-term products (ie not as short-run releases) they should (famous last words!) be around for years. This can allow folks like us to juggle the purchasing over a span of time and permit us to eventually get the cake, and eat it too! l



Be careful though as some of these kits are limited in nature. For example, Hasegawa has said that the Mutsu is going to be a limited run kit and once it's gone, it's gone. There's talk that when/ if they do the 1/350 triple deck Akagi, it may be the same.

A side point is that even if the kits keep going, sometimes the aftermarket doesn't. Shinsengumi and Fukuya, for example, don't keep lines in production as long and have very short product rotations. So in many cases, it's good to buy all your aftermarket stuff first and worry about the kit later. I have decks and barrels for ships I don't even own.



Hi Dade!

You bring up a good point on the differing longevity of aftermarket items vs. kits.

This may help people who really have to juggle their disposable income and prioritize hobby purchases. Kits always appear downstream, either on the main or secondary markets (albeit at inflated prices) but I have noticed that specialized aftermarket sets practically evaporate into the mists of time.

Good tip!

--Karl
CaptSonghouse
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 11:22 AM UTC
[quote]Ah, somebody know knows Japanese, now this could come in really handy!


Yeah, that History degree comes in handy once in a while!

--Karl
goldenpony
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Posted: Friday, September 26, 2008 - 08:27 AM UTC
Well, Freetime Hobbies now has the Akagi listed along with all the goodies. 5 PE sets, 1 wooden deck + Pe, and 1 set of aircraft.

They are only about 90 minutes from my house now.

nautilusmodels
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Posted: Sunday, September 28, 2008 - 08:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The problem with Nautilus Models' stuff is that their decks are just plain too thick unless you want to do some significant surgery to make them lay down at the correct height. Shinsengumi, OTOH, makes their stuff paper thin, so it lays right down over the original deck. Check out my Kongo build log and see what I mean. The grid engraving on the bottom of Nautilus' deck doesn't replicate the actual girder configuration accurately.



Dade,

That is exactly why I sell them as REPLACEMENT DECKS. There was never an intent for the modeller to glue them on top of the plastic parts. In fact, the instructions don't tell you to do that, they say replace the kit parts.

The Shinsengumi decks are 1/64" birch plywood. As such on a 1/350 ship, they stand about 6" above the plastic deck... a little too tall but ok. I tried some and got universal comments that the wood grain was too prominent. I have been contacted by people with the Shinsengumi decks asking if I had some wood with lesser grain. Unfortunately, the thinnest basswood I can get is 1/32. I have talked to several suppliers, but none are willing to make them thinner as it takes too much time for them to worry about and their machines aren't set up to adjust that small.

The AKAGI deck will be a thicker wood with the bracing etched on the back side. The modeler can choose to accept this, add the forthcoming p/e sets or scrape off the kit girders and add them in the same location. I wait only for the kit so I can place the girders in the same pattern as the kit (for the ease of doing the above) rather than using my referencves to place them in the "right" spot. Besides, I cannot guarantee the references I have are any more "correct" than anything Hasegawa has as my set are not original blueprints, but the drawings appearing in various publications - primarily the Morskie volume on Akagi.

If you choose to use my replacement decks as overlays, you do so at your own risk. They are designed to replace the plastic and integrate with the catwalks, galleries and other features.

James
Karybdis
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Posted: Sunday, September 28, 2008 - 09:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

That is exactly why I sell them as REPLACEMENT DECKS. There was never an intent for the modeller to glue them on top of the plastic parts. In fact, the instructions don't tell you to do that, they say replace the kit parts.



Fair enough. But for some of the folks here who are curious about a simple "drop on", I just wanted to let them know they have to do significant surgery for your product to lay properly. The fact is, some people DO just want to overlay stuff, and for them, your product isn't their speed. Nothing against your product, it's just that Shinsengumi is more what those folks are aiming for.

I myself am not adverse to the concept of a product like yours. Check in the Cruisers campaign discussion and I recommend Vector Cut's deck (a similar product to yours) for the Varyag.


Quoted Text

The Shinsengumi decks are 1/64" birch plywood. As such on a 1/350 ship, they stand about 6" above the plastic deck... a little too tall but ok.



It's actually about 5.5", but I'm perfectly willing to deal with that as 5.5" off in 1/350 is pretty darn good. Heck, if most PE replacements and other aftermarket items could come so close, I would be a happy camper.


Quoted Text

I tried some and got universal comments that the wood grain was too prominent. I have been contacted by people with the Shinsengumi decks asking if I had some wood with lesser grain.



The fact is, ALL wood decks, yours included, will always have some over scale grain. I'm quite happy with how small the grain effect is on Shinsengumi's products. This picture from your website shows your 1/450 Akagi deck with a very noticeable grain.




Now here is Shinsengumi's 1/700 Yamashiro deck. Even though it's a much smaller scale, the grain is tighter and I prefer the wood grain on this product as it looks more in scale to my tastes. Of course, I can only speak for myself and others may disagree with me.



Even so, over scale grain worries are easily rectified no matter what the product. If the user doesn't like the grain, it's a simple matter to over spray a light coat of paint to "tone down" the effect.


Quoted Text

Unfortunately, the thinnest basswood I can get is 1/32. I have talked to several suppliers, but none are willing to make them thinner as it takes too much time for them to worry about and their machines aren't set up to adjust that small.



Fair enough- again, this isn't an edict against you or your product. I was only speaking in the conversation as regards to overlay decks and their ease of use for a lot of the folks here who simply want a "plug and play" item.


Quoted Text

The AKAGI deck will be a thicker wood with the bracing etched on the back side. The modeler can choose to accept this, add the forthcoming p/e sets or scrape off the kit girders and add them in the same location.



This is interesting and I think more than a few people will be curious about this. Since it looks like the plastic deck will in fact, not have the girders molded to it as originally thought, will you be producing that in your deck as well? I only ask as some readers will be curious to know if your product will involve more work than the original supplied plastic if they choose to add PE. Also, if they do choose to remove the underside girders from your deck to add the PE, what kind of process would you recommend as to some folks, working with thin wood is a scary proposition with a lot of unknowns.

Thanks for stopping by and talking about this. Although I myself am a Shinsengumi advocate, I'm sure that many readers will be very interested in your product and appreciate your comments.
Rab
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Posted: Sunday, September 28, 2008 - 06:41 PM UTC
For reference, the Gakken book is not too bad, but it's not all on just the Akagi. The best reference I have and well worth the money, is a set of 1:200 Miyukikai plans. Consisting of 5 sheets of very well drawn plans and isometric diagrams. Here's just a sample of what is drawn of the underside of the flight deck, girder placements ect.


nautilusmodels
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Posted: Monday, September 29, 2008 - 04:10 AM UTC
Fair enough.

The back side of the current deck has the girders represented in a sub-scale manner... just enough to give the suggestion of girders and about the same depth as the kit parts.

As I said, I am awaiting a kit so I can get started. *IF* the girders are indeed separate parts, the etching will be very light and may just be done as lightly done lines for them to slip into instead of the raised effect on the current 1/450 deck. I do hope the girders will allow me to do it with placement lines instead of raised details... it takes less time and time is money when the laser cutter is involved.

less time = lower price.