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Want to be part of a group build? This is where to start, plan, and meet about them.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
Proposal: Guadalcanal Campaign
Aurora-7
#360
Joined: June 18, 2003
KitMaker: 1,020 posts
Model Shipwrights: 630 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 26, 2015 - 06:53 PM UTC
Thanks for pointing out that book, Paul. I have to get a copy of it.
Littorio
Joined: September 15, 2004
KitMaker: 4,728 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,080 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 26, 2015 - 07:09 PM UTC
Quoted Text
If you are looking for a little inspiration check out James Hornfischer's book "Neptune's Inferno". It is an excellent read on the USN's participation at Guadalcanal along with a lot of backstory for the ships and crews that fought.
Paul, that book was my inspiration behind this campaign, fully recommended for any one looking for a naval inspiration. On that subject does any one know of a book or books that cover the marines and/or the cactus airforce?
Tick tock.... Two weeks to go.
Aurora-7
#360
Joined: June 18, 2003
KitMaker: 1,020 posts
Model Shipwrights: 630 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 26, 2015 - 07:44 PM UTC
Luciano,
Off, the top of my head I'm aware of two books on the Cactus Air Force but never read them.
One is a late 60's publication called 'Cactus Air Force' by Thomas Miller.
The other is a more recent publication called 'Operation KE' by Roger Letourneau.
Off, the top of my head I'm aware of two books on the Cactus Air Force but never read them.
One is a late 60's publication called 'Cactus Air Force' by Thomas Miller.
The other is a more recent publication called 'Operation KE' by Roger Letourneau.
PeeJay74
#363
Joined: January 08, 2014
KitMaker: 425 posts
Model Shipwrights: 14 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 26, 2015 - 07:53 PM UTC
"Helmet For My Pillow" by Robert Leckie is a good firsthand account of the Marine point of view, they used a lot of his memoirs for the HBO miniseries "The Pacific".
nico37
Joined: May 23, 2011
KitMaker: 651 posts
Model Shipwrights: 10 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 26, 2015 - 07:57 PM UTC
Hi all,
i just enlisted in this campaign. I would like to build a figure, is that OK here ?
Cheers
nico
i just enlisted in this campaign. I would like to build a figure, is that OK here ?
Cheers
nico
Littorio
Joined: September 15, 2004
KitMaker: 4,728 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,080 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 26, 2015 - 07:58 PM UTC
Michael, Paul thank you both, I'll have a look round and see if I can find any of those.
Paul totally forgot about the Pacific mini series, I've got the box set, didn't think it was as good as Band of Brothers but I'll dig it out and watch it again.
Paul totally forgot about the Pacific mini series, I've got the box set, didn't think it was as good as Band of Brothers but I'll dig it out and watch it again.
Littorio
Joined: September 15, 2004
KitMaker: 4,728 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,080 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 26, 2015 - 08:01 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi all,
i just enlisted in this campaign. I would like to build a figure, is that OK here ?
Cheers
nico
Nicolas, pleasure to have you along, a figure is welcome. What figure will you be doing?
Aurora-7
#360
Joined: June 18, 2003
KitMaker: 1,020 posts
Model Shipwrights: 630 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 26, 2015 - 08:08 PM UTC
Quoted Text
"Helmet For My Pillow" by Robert Leckie is a good firsthand account of the Marine point of view, they used a lot of his memoirs for the HBO miniseries "The Pacific".
Loved that series. The didn't flinch at all in the story telling.
They didn't either in 'Band of Brothers' but the Pacific War was it's own kind of Hell.
PeeJay74
#363
Joined: January 08, 2014
KitMaker: 425 posts
Model Shipwrights: 14 posts
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2015 - 12:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Paul, that book was my inspiration behind this campaign, fully recommended for any one looking for a naval inspiration. On that subject does any one know of a book or books that cover the marines and/or the cactus airforce?
Tick tock.... Two weeks to go.
Luciano,
Would you happen to have read either of his other books, "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" or "Ship of Ghosts"? I beleive they are about Leyte and the USS Houston, respectively. I really enjoyed his account of the battles around Guadalcanal, I am tempted to pick up his other works. Reading the history of the men or machines tends to spark my interest in selecting modeling projects.
Littorio
Joined: September 15, 2004
KitMaker: 4,728 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,080 posts
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2015 - 12:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextPaul, that book was my inspiration behind this campaign, fully recommended for any one looking for a naval inspiration. On that subject does any one know of a book or books that cover the marines and/or the cactus airforce?
Tick tock.... Two weeks to go.
Luciano,
Would you happen to have read either of his other books, "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" or "Ship of Ghosts"? I beleive they are about Leyte and the USS Houston, respectively. I really enjoyed his account of the battles around Guadalcanal, I am tempted to pick up his other works. Reading the history of the men or machines tends to spark my interest in selecting modeling projects.
Paul, Last stand of the tin can sailors is also a great book, I read that one first then picked up Neptunes Inferno. I fully recommend Last stand, it gives you respect for what those old sailors went through and was the inspiration behind my USS Hoel build. I've not picked up the other book yet but do intend too at some point soon.
rolltide31
#377
Joined: June 27, 2010
KitMaker: 1,481 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,332 posts
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2015 - 12:39 AM UTC
Paul,
I can echo Luciano's comments regarding "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors". It was actually the inspiration behind the Battle of Leyte Gulf Campaign along with my USS Heermann, IJN Maya, and USS Dace builds.
Fantastic account and a great read.
Dave
I can echo Luciano's comments regarding "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors". It was actually the inspiration behind the Battle of Leyte Gulf Campaign along with my USS Heermann, IJN Maya, and USS Dace builds.
Fantastic account and a great read.
Dave
MichaelSatin
Campaigns AdministratorJoined: January 19, 2008
KitMaker: 3,909 posts
Model Shipwrights: 255 posts
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2015 - 12:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextIf you are looking for a little inspiration check out James Hornfischer's book "Neptune's Inferno". It is an excellent read on the USN's participation at Guadalcanal along with a lot of backstory for the ships and crews that fought.
Paul, that book was my inspiration behind this campaign, fully recommended for any one looking for a naval inspiration. On that subject does any one know of a book or books that cover the marines and/or the cactus airforce?
Tick tock.... Two weeks to go.
Luciano,
"The Cactus Air Force" is a classic and a very good read. I haven't actually read "Guadalcanal, The Island of Fire" yet but plan to for the campaign. For a general history it's hard to beat Richard Frank's "Guadalcanal".
Michael
Littorio
Joined: September 15, 2004
KitMaker: 4,728 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,080 posts
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2015 - 01:13 AM UTC
Thank you Michael I'll take a look for one of those.
PeeJay74
#363
Joined: January 08, 2014
KitMaker: 425 posts
Model Shipwrights: 14 posts
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2015 - 01:26 AM UTC
Well it looks like I have more books to pick up! I am about halfway through David Sears' "At War with the Wind" right now, so maybe "Last Stand" next. The Cactus Airforce book sounds interesting as well.
For now, I am just about ready for my first ship. Dragon's Laffey is ready to go and I ordered GMM's Buchanan PE for her. This should be fun. I am even going to try and make a water base following some of Chris Flodberg's tips. I may need the whole year just to finish this project!
Not to totally change gears, but can anyone recommend a mix ratio to scale model master marine enamels down to 1:350? 10% white or light grey, 20% maybe? I dont think they are pre-faded. Aircraft are so much easier to plan out painting.
For now, I am just about ready for my first ship. Dragon's Laffey is ready to go and I ordered GMM's Buchanan PE for her. This should be fun. I am even going to try and make a water base following some of Chris Flodberg's tips. I may need the whole year just to finish this project!
Not to totally change gears, but can anyone recommend a mix ratio to scale model master marine enamels down to 1:350? 10% white or light grey, 20% maybe? I dont think they are pre-faded. Aircraft are so much easier to plan out painting.
nico37
Joined: May 23, 2011
KitMaker: 651 posts
Model Shipwrights: 10 posts
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2015 - 12:43 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextHi all,
i just enlisted in this campaign. I would like to build a figure, is that OK here ?
Cheers
nico
Nicolas, pleasure to have you along, a figure is welcome. What figure will you be doing?
Hi Luciano,
thanks for the answer, that's cool.
I don't know yet exactly the pose but it'll a marines. I wanted to scuplt one since a while so it's the occasion !
I get some ideas but i'm still looking for some good pics....
cheers
nico
nico37
Joined: May 23, 2011
KitMaker: 651 posts
Model Shipwrights: 10 posts
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2015 - 04:33 PM UTC
Hi,
well, if i don't find another idea before my begining, i'm going to use the following pic for my fig :
It's said that the photo was taken in Guadalcanl. The marine looks like if it's true, the pose is interesting and the quality of the pic is sufficient so , here it is...
cheers
nico
well, if i don't find another idea before my begining, i'm going to use the following pic for my fig :
It's said that the photo was taken in Guadalcanl. The marine looks like if it's true, the pose is interesting and the quality of the pic is sufficient so , here it is...
cheers
nico
Halfyank
Joined: February 01, 2003
KitMaker: 5,221 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,821 posts
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2015 - 06:04 PM UTC
Here's some more responses to various posts.
Paul, as others have said "Last stand" is an excellent book. In fact I may have to re-read it. Ship of Ghosts is also very good. It's been several years since I've read it and I recall it being mostly about what happened to the crew while prisoners of war.
They've probably already been mentioned but two other excellent books on the Guadalcanal naval campaign are Richard B Frank's "Guadalcanal:The definitive account of the landmark battle." It's not just the naval side, but covers all the action. Another very good book is James D Hornfischer's "Neptune's Inferno". Another book I'm going to have to re-read.
Nicholas that's a great photo but one reference I have, "The US Army in World War II" by Mark R Henry says that photo is actually an Army rifleman. "commonly identified as a Marine, but his shirt with the pleated pockets is first pattern Army HBT, and his ID tags are of the oblong Army shape rather than the much rounder USMC pattern." He also mentions how he's armed with a Garand rifle while the Marines at that time didn't have them. I don't think that is conclusive as the Marines were able to "acquire" what they wanted by various means. It still would make an interesting figure of somebody who fought on the "canal."
I'm really stomping at the bit to begin this campaign. I'm torn between Dragon's Laffey, Trumpeter's San Francisco, or Hasegawa's Yukikaze, all in 1/350. I'm leaning towards the Laffey, and maybe the Yukikaze if I can finish Laffey in time.
Paul, as others have said "Last stand" is an excellent book. In fact I may have to re-read it. Ship of Ghosts is also very good. It's been several years since I've read it and I recall it being mostly about what happened to the crew while prisoners of war.
They've probably already been mentioned but two other excellent books on the Guadalcanal naval campaign are Richard B Frank's "Guadalcanal:The definitive account of the landmark battle." It's not just the naval side, but covers all the action. Another very good book is James D Hornfischer's "Neptune's Inferno". Another book I'm going to have to re-read.
Nicholas that's a great photo but one reference I have, "The US Army in World War II" by Mark R Henry says that photo is actually an Army rifleman. "commonly identified as a Marine, but his shirt with the pleated pockets is first pattern Army HBT, and his ID tags are of the oblong Army shape rather than the much rounder USMC pattern." He also mentions how he's armed with a Garand rifle while the Marines at that time didn't have them. I don't think that is conclusive as the Marines were able to "acquire" what they wanted by various means. It still would make an interesting figure of somebody who fought on the "canal."
I'm really stomping at the bit to begin this campaign. I'm torn between Dragon's Laffey, Trumpeter's San Francisco, or Hasegawa's Yukikaze, all in 1/350. I'm leaning towards the Laffey, and maybe the Yukikaze if I can finish Laffey in time.
nico37
Joined: May 23, 2011
KitMaker: 651 posts
Model Shipwrights: 10 posts
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2015 - 06:43 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Here's some more responses to various posts.
...
Nicholas that's a great photo but one reference I have, "The US Army in World War II" by Mark R Henry says that photo is actually an Army rifleman. "commonly identified as a Marine, but his shirt with the pleated pockets is first pattern Army HBT, and his ID tags are of the oblong Army shape rather than the much rounder USMC pattern." He also mentions how he's armed with a Garand rifle while the Marines at that time didn't have them. I don't think that is conclusive as the Marines were able to "acquire" what they wanted by various means. It still would make an interesting figure of somebody who fought on the "canal."
....
Thanks a lot Halfyank for your precisions, i forgot the famous Napoleon the first sentence " Never trust all the things you see on the internet" !
.....So i'm going to seek another reference' piccheers
nico
bill_c
Campaigns Administrator
Joined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 10,553 posts
Model Shipwrights: 306 posts
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2015 - 06:55 PM UTC
Quoted Text
It's said that the photo was taken in Guadalcanl.
While obviously posed for the cameraman, my understanding is the Marines on the Canal had Springfield rifles, at least at the beginning. Does anyone know when the M-1s began being issued to them?
Capistrano
Joined: July 28, 2015
KitMaker: 21 posts
Model Shipwrights: 4 posts
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2015 - 07:26 PM UTC
The picture in question is of a member of the 164th Infantry of the Amy's 23 (Americal) Infantry Divison. Remember, the Army was also on the 'canal, even if the Marines would like to forget that. Army jackets (shirts) have two pockets, while the Marines only had one.
As for the Garand, the Marines adopted it after seeing it used to great affect by the Army on the 'canal.
As for the Garand, the Marines adopted it after seeing it used to great affect by the Army on the 'canal.
Cosimodo
#335
Joined: September 03, 2013
KitMaker: 1,808 posts
Model Shipwrights: 871 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 - 06:04 AM UTC
Hi Luciano,
I'm in for this campaign. I am going to take to the air for this one as part of the red team.
I will be using Tamiya's Mitsubishi A6M2 Zero as flown by Saburo Sakai, who was based out of Rabaul.
cheers
Michael
I'm in for this campaign. I am going to take to the air for this one as part of the red team.
I will be using Tamiya's Mitsubishi A6M2 Zero as flown by Saburo Sakai, who was based out of Rabaul.
cheers
Michael
DanielChavez
Joined: May 11, 2010
KitMaker: 87 posts
Model Shipwrights: 78 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 - 08:11 AM UTC
Greetings!
Paul - I'm not absolutely positive about "scale factor", but I recall reading that you should use the square root of the scale of your model as the percentage. So, the square root of 350 = ~18.71. Therefore, you should lighten about ~20%. Some said they use white, others used light grey. I've not tried it yet. But, maybe I will for this campaign!
Here's some info I found on destroyerhistory.org regarding DD-469 USS De Haven:
"USS De Haven (DD 469) was the first 2,100-ton Fletcher-class destroyer lost in World War II having been in commission only 133 days, the second shortest career (after Meredith, DD 726) of all United States destroyers in the war.
The twelfth of 175 Fletchers commissioned (in September 1942), De Haven was built at Bath Iron Works alongside Taylor and named for a 19th century explorer. In November, after shakedown, she sailed for the Pacific and arrived in the Solomon Islands in December.
In January 1943, De Haven was assigned with sisters Fletcher, Radford, Nicholas and O’Bannon to Capt. R.P. Briscoe’s “Cactus Striking Force,” which operated from the Guadalcanal area. She was bombed and sunk there 1 February while in company of Nicholas and landing craft—the last American destroyer lost during the Gualcanal campaign. Enemy resistance on Guadalcanal ended one week later."
There are very few pictures of her for reference, but she is painted in Ms. 21 (5N overall with 20B decks). A few years ago when I was first considering which ship to build with my Tamiya Fletcher, I asked Rick E. Davis, an incredibly knowledgeable US Destroyer expert and all-around Nice Guy, if he had any further info on De Haven. He said sources are VERY limited but, it seems, she had an "unusual" armament in that she retained 2 extra 20mm guns atop her pilothouse and carried a twin 40mm Bofors on the fantail.
So, I'll be attempting to model the ill-fated De Haven for this campaign.
See y'all soon!
Daniel
Paul - I'm not absolutely positive about "scale factor", but I recall reading that you should use the square root of the scale of your model as the percentage. So, the square root of 350 = ~18.71. Therefore, you should lighten about ~20%. Some said they use white, others used light grey. I've not tried it yet. But, maybe I will for this campaign!
Here's some info I found on destroyerhistory.org regarding DD-469 USS De Haven:
"USS De Haven (DD 469) was the first 2,100-ton Fletcher-class destroyer lost in World War II having been in commission only 133 days, the second shortest career (after Meredith, DD 726) of all United States destroyers in the war.
The twelfth of 175 Fletchers commissioned (in September 1942), De Haven was built at Bath Iron Works alongside Taylor and named for a 19th century explorer. In November, after shakedown, she sailed for the Pacific and arrived in the Solomon Islands in December.
In January 1943, De Haven was assigned with sisters Fletcher, Radford, Nicholas and O’Bannon to Capt. R.P. Briscoe’s “Cactus Striking Force,” which operated from the Guadalcanal area. She was bombed and sunk there 1 February while in company of Nicholas and landing craft—the last American destroyer lost during the Gualcanal campaign. Enemy resistance on Guadalcanal ended one week later."
There are very few pictures of her for reference, but she is painted in Ms. 21 (5N overall with 20B decks). A few years ago when I was first considering which ship to build with my Tamiya Fletcher, I asked Rick E. Davis, an incredibly knowledgeable US Destroyer expert and all-around Nice Guy, if he had any further info on De Haven. He said sources are VERY limited but, it seems, she had an "unusual" armament in that she retained 2 extra 20mm guns atop her pilothouse and carried a twin 40mm Bofors on the fantail.
So, I'll be attempting to model the ill-fated De Haven for this campaign.
See y'all soon!
Daniel
Lakota
#123
Joined: November 17, 2008
KitMaker: 1,202 posts
Model Shipwrights: 67 posts
Posted: Friday, July 31, 2015 - 08:37 PM UTC
Howdy Y'all 
@Nicolas-I would build the figure, it is obviously an Army infantryman and not a Marine. The U.S. Army arrived on Guadalcanal later, after the Marines did much of the fighting and they brought their M-1's. I made one of the Dragon Guadalcanal figures and lost the Springfield. I completed it and used a spare M-1; if anyone asked I was going to tell them it had been "requisitioned" from the Army after they landed later in the campaign.
Good luck with your figure. I'm thinking of doing one also. I'll use a figure from the Dragon "Guadalcanal" set if I do. Still also toying with the idea of building an IJN destroyer.
Take Care,
Don "Lakota"
@Nicolas-I would build the figure, it is obviously an Army infantryman and not a Marine. The U.S. Army arrived on Guadalcanal later, after the Marines did much of the fighting and they brought their M-1's. I made one of the Dragon Guadalcanal figures and lost the Springfield. I completed it and used a spare M-1; if anyone asked I was going to tell them it had been "requisitioned" from the Army after they landed later in the campaign.
Good luck with your figure. I'm thinking of doing one also. I'll use a figure from the Dragon "Guadalcanal" set if I do. Still also toying with the idea of building an IJN destroyer.
Take Care,
Don "Lakota"
Littorio
Joined: September 15, 2004
KitMaker: 4,728 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,080 posts
Posted: Friday, July 31, 2015 - 10:51 PM UTC
D minus 6 until we land or defend
Nicolas, love the figure even if he is army, like others have already said the army was there even if they got there late
My plans have changed a bit as I may now be building a P-39 / 400 as some parts ordered for the Nasty Asty from across the pond two months ago still haven't turned up.
Nicolas, love the figure even if he is army, like others have already said the army was there even if they got there late
My plans have changed a bit as I may now be building a P-39 / 400 as some parts ordered for the Nasty Asty from across the pond two months ago still haven't turned up.
bill_c
Campaigns AdministratorJoined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 10,553 posts
Model Shipwrights: 306 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 02, 2015 - 08:43 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Remember, the Army was also on the 'canal, even if the Marines would like to forget that.
No, they remember, the Marines needed someone to clean their latrines.
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