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Treadheads Brown water navy idea's.
garrybeebe
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Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 01:03 PM UTC
Here is the ball Amigo, its in your hands now. :-) But realy, I know how much you like the study of the BWN subject! And I also know there is much interest within the ranks here on Armorama. So I'll start this for you bud. This will be a good thread to discuss about a future campaign for this subject!

Cheers

Garry
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Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 11:54 PM UTC
Thanks Garry, You are a real Mate!

Perhaps I am being a little "picky" but I would like to see only one campaign rolling at a time...
We don't have that many enthusiasts of the Naval area, and the Dreadnought Campaign is going to start after DDD and last until December.

This way I think (and hope) to have the participants focused and with a "light on the end of the tunnel", showing that this is going to last - The Warship Interest in Armorama!!

So my question to the rest of the mates of Big A is:
- Do you want a BWN/Vietnam Campaign running at the same time of Dreadnought?
- Starting BWN/Vietnam Campaign in January 2006?

Any input is welcome as well as enlitees proposals and ideas!!!

Skipper
TreadHead
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 03:22 AM UTC
Howdy fellas,

First off, thx for tossin' this one on the table Garry. I'm sure it was meant from the heart And it's only too true that my interest in the Brown Water Navy /Mobile Riverine Force and the US Navy Seawolves is truly HUGE. So I do appreciate your help in trying to get something started around here in that regard.
But, I also respect skipper's opinion and honest desire to do only things that elevate the "Warship intesrest in Armorama".

So I stand beside both you Garry, and Rui in support of the idea of a BWN Campaign. The timing of which shouldn't in any way detract, or wan the interest in other already scheduled Warship Campaign's.
Maybe this thread can serve as a 'sounding board' at the very least to actually see how much interest there would be from the membership in such a Campaign.
Also, maybe a place to hash out ideas, potential kit sources of BWN subject matter (of which there is very little), and/or Seawolf build potential.

Input?...Idea?...Suggestions?

Tread.
garrybeebe
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 04:10 AM UTC
Yes, I agree with both you Gordon and Rui. This should be thought of as a future campaign to fit in place btween other Warships campaigns. Having and running more then one campaign at a time would just be to much . So this thread is a good sounding board to discuss possibilities for a future campaign.
I'll be in it to! So, just what is available out there in kit form to match this subject ?

Cheers,

Garry

P.S. I changed a few things in the original post.
skipper
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 05:24 AM UTC
Mates,

One thing doesn't affect the other so here's the list of models that I am aware of for this proposed campaign.

These models are mainly of riverine forces, and this ones I have in my model wharehouse

1/35 Tamiya - PBR (this is already built)
1/35 Dragon - LSSC (half made)
1/48 Revell - Swift boat
1/72 Viking Models - PBR, Monitor, RAG Boat and LSSC (These are long OOP)

This is a liile too expensive, but then someday...
1/35 Nimix - Monitor

Also would like to scratch a PAVC in 1/35, or buy a model of it - if afordable

Big ships listing, like the USS New Jersey, I leave to Garry

Skipper

blaster76
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 07:52 AM UTC
I guess I'm going to be the "bummer" man here. While the Brown Water Navy is without a doubt a very important topic to us "older"guys. There just isn't to much out there of a variety nature. I vote we press ahead with the proposed "Flattop" campaign as there is so much variety of pieces, scales, and price ranges

Right now, we have 50 folks signed up for the sub and so far 27 for the Battleship. The big armor campaigns have 70 to 80 participants, so we are definitely getting attention

Here's an idea though. You could do a small craft campaign and this could include the LCM and LVCP and PT boats. This would offer a larger variety of subjects, prices and scalesand maybe in a year there will be more true BWN kits released
thathaway3
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 08:33 AM UTC
I keep hoping to finish off the kits I've got, and you guys keep proposing GREAT campaigns that make me want to but more kits!!!

Not sure how I'll feel this time next year, but I've always said I wanted to do a 1/350 CV-6 Enterprise to go with my CVN-65 Enterprise. (Where's all that gonna go when I add my 1/350 Missouri from the Dreadnaught campaign :-) :-) )

One thing I would love to do is the ARL-24 Sphinx. Any of you BWN fans familiar with her? (There's a story here!)

Tom
TreadHead
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 10:21 AM UTC
"......Perhaps I am being a little "picky" but I would like to see only one campaign rolling at a time........"

".....One thing doesn't affect the other so ....."

Sorry, my failing here I'm sure. But if you could just lend me a hand here on understanding your meaning, it would go a long way towards adding cement to my stance beside you....

Now, to your "warehouse".
Very impressive 'stash' you have Rui. I am specifically impressed by your 1/72nd Viking stash of kits......any chance you'd part with one or two of thses kits?
As to the Nimix kit. If you can find it it's (as you've said) rather expensive. Especially based upon what you get in the box.
And, just for the record, this delay of actually starting this BWN Campaign/Group Build (stay tuned for my own 'wee' Group Build tangent ladies and gentleman) is; that it fits almost perfectly into my work on a 'potential' conversion kit for both the Trumpter 1/35th scale LCM (3), and the 1/72nd scale version of same.
I picked up the braille scale version of the LCM (3) (Trumpeter) on the way home today and the kit itself looks 'pretty' good.......that is to say, I truly think the conversion potential for the 1/72nd scale version is more easily 'doable' than it's larger cousin.
I've already done all the groundwork (for myself), regarding the conversion of the LCM (3) kit into the 'Nam era LCM (6) base kit that the 'Tango' boat, the CCB boat, the Monitor, etc, etc, are based upon. I have just been wrestling with myself whether it's truly worth building it with a 'Master' in mind. Or, whether the interest is sufficient enough for all of the extra effort involved in creating a 'Master' mould so that the experience can be shared.
I for one am truly grateful that our own 'Roo (Cliff) decided to do all of the extra work to create his wonderful Radio/Command body conversion kit for the GMC truck kit.
But then, I need to remember that I'm being waaaaaaaay too selfindulgent with that behaviour!.........

Tread.
95bravo
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 12:02 PM UTC
Guys,

My chant wasn't to be taken overly serious. If everyone wants to wait until 06 for the Brn Water Navy stuff...I can live with that.

To add to the possible kits. Here are some that Masterpiece Models currently offers and will be offering.

http://misc.kitreview.com/shipreviews/riverineseriespreview_1.htm
garrybeebe
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Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 01:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Guys,

My chant wasn't to be taken overly serious. If everyone wants to wait until 06 for the Brn Water Navy stuff...I can live with that.

To add to the possible kits. Here are some that Masterpiece Models currently offers and will be offering.

http://misc.kitreview.com/shipreviews/riverineseriespreview_1.htm



Steve, can I just say one thing?........................

Drool,

Garry
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 12:24 AM UTC
Hi Gordon!

Perhaps I didn't make my self understood...
I'll try and explain poin by point:

Quoted Text

"......Perhaps I am being a little "picky" but I would like to see only one campaign rolling at a time........"


I said this because I didn't want to everything to happen at the same time at the Warship Area of Armorama. We have not that much members that justifyes three campaigns rolling at the same time. So if we can make the interest to be continuos, with always some interesting campaigns happening, them this area may grow at a steady pace... instead of beeing like a Fire Cracker: fussssss BUM and ended
:)


Quoted Text

".....One thing doesn't affect the other so ....."

Even if this BWN campaign isn't starting now, it doesn't hurt to list the models that I have and some more available


Quoted Text

Now, to your "warehouse".
Very impressive 'stash' you have Rui. I am specifically impressed by your 1/72nd Viking stash of kits......any chance you'd part with one or two of thses kits?

Sorry Mate, no can do


Quoted Text

As to the Nimix kit. If you can find it it's (as you've said) rather expensive. Especially based upon what you get in the box.

Masterpieces Models have a waterline Monitor, that Steve (95Bravo) so wel pointed out that may do the trick for half the price


Quoted Text

And, just for the record, this delay of actually starting this BWN Campaign/Group Build (stay tuned for my own 'wee' Group Build tangent ladies and gentleman) is; that it fits almost perfectly into my work on a 'potential' conversion kit for both the Trumpter 1/35th scale LCM (3), and the 1/72nd scale version of same.
I picked up the braille scale version of the LCM (3) (Trumpeter) on the way home today and the kit itself looks 'pretty' good.......that is to say, I truly think the conversion potential for the 1/72nd scale version is more easily 'doable' than it's larger cousin.
I've already done all the groundwork (for myself), regarding the conversion of the LCM (3) kit into the 'Nam era LCM (6) base kit that the 'Tango' boat, the CCB boat, the Monitor, etc, etc, are based upon. I have just been wrestling with myself whether it's truly worth building it with a 'Master' in mind. Or, whether the interest is sufficient enough for all of the extra effort involved in creating a 'Master' mould so that the experience can be shared.

Well I would like to have one of those convertions for my Trump LCM...
The Italeri one has already a project: similar convertion to a Portuguese Craft used in the Colonial war in the 60's and 70's in (former) Portuguese Colonies Guinea and Angola...

Skipper
95bravo
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 02:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Steve, can I just say one thing?........................

Drool,

Garry



She's a babe to be sure. The price is a bit stiff IMHO, but I guess that should be expected when dealing with obscure subjects and the material used. Given the price, I think in retrospect that it's a very good thing that campaign will kick off in 06. This gives me time to save up for it and my Hornet without the requirement of selling my plasma to pay for them

Until then
TreadHead
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 02:35 AM UTC
Howdy Rui, and Good Mornin',

(BTW, how would you pronounce your first name phonetically?
ROOEE?, ROO?, RYE?........just curious. )

Anways, many thx for taking the time to clarify your points, I was hoping that was what you meant.
Must say, bad news about you not wanting to part with those Viking kits. I don't suppose if I rant on about how wonderful a man you are, and how your handsome visage, warm heart and slendid wit make you a 'man amoung men' would sway you any?......?...... :-) ......din't think so....

The Masterpiece Models offering is very tempting. Even though I'm not a big fan of waterline kits, I still would like to read a review on the kit, or hear from someone here who has taken the plunge and bought one. Till then, I'll keep working on my conversion. And just to elaborate a wee bit on my conversion.
I've already got the hull / deck / forward section portion of the conversion done, it's the angular wheelhouse, or command superstructure that is taking the time. I'm just trying to keep it simple so that the conversion wouldn't be that hard for a potential modeler.
This wheel house is hollow on the 1/35th scale version I'm working on, but for the smaller 1/72nd version that could be a solid piece, and therefore much easier to do.
(in fact I've thought about making the 1/35 one solid as well, but then you'd wind up with a rather large, and heavy, chuck of resin........

But enough about that.
You mentioned ..." The Italeri one has already a project: similar convertion to a Portuguese Craft used in the Colonial war in the 60's and 70's in (former) Portuguese Colonies Guinea and Angola..."
Could you expand on that info? Or point me to a site with pics of this boat??
tia.

Tread.
skipper
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 03:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Howdy Rui, and Good Mornin',

(BTW, how would you pronounce your first name phonetically?
ROOEE?, ROO?, RYE?........just curious. )



This is always hard to english speacking guys... You have to pronounce the RRRR like if you angry and then add the UEE - Dave (Grumpyoldman) couldn't pronounce it in front of my :-)


Quoted Text

Anways, many thx for taking the time to clarify your points, I was hoping that was what you meant.
Must say, bad news about you not wanting to part with those Viking kits. I don't suppose if I rant on about how wonderful a man you are, and how your handsome visage, warm heart and slendid wit make you a 'man amoung men' would sway you any?......?...... :-) ......din't think so....

If I had doubles I wouldn't mind, but I have one of each... Sorry Mate - Don't take it personally, please!


Quoted Text

But enough about that.
You mentioned ..." The Italeri one has already a project: similar convertion to a Portuguese Craft used in the Colonial war in the 60's and 70's in (former) Portuguese Colonies Guinea and Angola..."
Could you expand on that info? Or point me to a site with pics of this boat??


The Portuguese Navy had a landing craft, portuguese made, but the hull is very similar to the LCM3. The wheel house is different, wider and longer, and in front of it, had a twin or a single 20mm oerlinkon - already have the Accurate Armour Oerlikon for this. The cargo area had some tubes making a kind of bonnet with canvas that could be easily removed.
I have a few pics, on portuguese books, dealing with "our own Vietnam", that started in 1962 in Angola and spread to the other colonies, Guinea-Bissau, Angola and Mozambique. Cabo Verde (Cape Verde) and S.Tomé e Principe never had war and guerrilla, just "political warfare", if I am allowed to put it this way.
All ended after April, 25th 1974 with a revolution in the main land, Portugal, that ended 50 years of Dictatureship by Salazar and followers. In 1975 all the former colonies got their independance, and in most cases all had their civil wars

In our Fuzileiros (Marines) School, they have one of this crafts preserved. I have to go there with a camera a shoot a lot of pics for reference. When I do that, I'll post them, for the rest of the guys to see.

As a funny remark, when I was in the Navy, I learned how to "drive" in one of this things...

Skipper
blaster76
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 08:31 AM UTC
I wasn't proposing a new campaign with my "Small watercraft" idea. I meant it as a tie in to Brown Water Navy. There are what only 4 - 5 kits representing boats from the Riverine forces and some of them are resin which are difficult to build and costly thereby making the choices even more limited. By going to small craft you can add the PT boats, LCVP and LCM which are all available as cheap to moderate plastic kits.

Besides, I've got that Japanese PT boat , German "S" boat , and the LCVP in my stash :-)

Now, I'm still not backing down from my push to do the "Flattop" campaign first.
thathaway3
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Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 10:14 AM UTC
One other kit which you could include would be an LST. That's what I was alluding to earlier. The Sphinx was an old WW II LST that was converted into an "ARL" or Amphibious Repair Light auxiliary, and served during the Vietnam war (third time she was placed in commission) as a "tender" for BWN craft. They welded the front doors closed, and built a helicopter landing platform amidships. That would make a great diorama with small craft and a helocopter, if you could find everything in the same scale.

I got a chance to tour parts of the ship during her fourth incarnation while she was at Rodman Naval Station in Panama. She was still classified as an ARL but was actually in use as an electronic intellegence vessel.

I always though the "Large Slow Target" was a fascinating ship and wish there was a good model with the more modern bridge available.

Tom
TreadHead
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Posted: Friday, March 11, 2005 - 12:49 PM UTC
Howdy fellas,

Sorry to bring this thread back to the forefront (I know most of you 'swabbies' don't consider the BWN subject real 'Warship' material ) but....I had a quick question regarding the old Revell 1/48th scale (unfortunately) Swift Boat kit.
I was wondering if anyone here has built it, and even more importantly, what was their opinion?.....?
tia.

Tread.

EDIT: Aside from that, I'm also interested in the accuracy of the kit as well.
Tiger101
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Posted: Friday, March 11, 2005 - 01:28 PM UTC
I had a quick question regarding the old Revell 1/48th scale
I just picked this kit up the other day Tread. It has been reissued. I got it for $15. I opend it up and the kit looks pretty good. My only gripe inspecting the kit is that the Wheel house is split in half down the middle. I am saving this kit just incase this gets off the ground. Oh God I'm building BOATS! LOL

Sorry I cant help with the accuracy of the kit.
garrybeebe
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Posted: Friday, March 11, 2005 - 03:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Howdy fellas,

Sorry to bring this thread back to the forefront (I know most of you 'swabbies' don't consider the BWN subject real 'Warship' material ) but....I had a quick question regarding the old Revell 1/48th scale (unfortunately) Swift Boat kit.
I was wondering if anyone here has built it, and even more importantly, what was their opinion?.....?
tia.

Tread.

EDIT: Aside from that, I'm also interested in the accuracy of the kit as well.



There now Gordon, BWN or the Salty navy, if it has guns and floats I'm interested! And yes I be very interested in a future BWN campaign. Do I hear a OooHaaaaaaaaaaH! ?

Cheers amigo,

Garry
95bravo
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Posted: Friday, March 11, 2005 - 04:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Howdy fellas,

Sorry to bring this thread back to the forefront (I know most of you 'swabbies' don't consider the BWN subject real 'Warship' material ) but....I had a quick question regarding the old Revell 1/48th scale (unfortunately) Swift Boat kit.
I was wondering if anyone here has built it, and even more importantly, what was their opinion?.....?
tia.

Tread.

EDIT: Aside from that, I'm also interested in the accuracy of the kit as well.



Tread,

I have two and am currently building one for my father in law who served on one in Vietnam, Cos Div 14. In regards to accuracy, the swift boat guys I know are pleased with it and are pretty critical when it comes to the accuracy aspect.

For the money, you can't go wrong. The fit of the pilot house and galley area on both of mine were almost pefect. There is some sanding involved with the hull and deck halves but it's minor. If you add details to the pilot house and few other things,( like detailing the top gun tub) it'll make a nice example.

I have a section on my web site concerning PCFs, check it out and see if it'll be any use to you.

http://www.blauedrache.net/PCF.html


Later!
95bravo
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Posted: Friday, March 11, 2005 - 04:20 PM UTC
Tread,

The hyperlink I posted didn't work...

Go here: www.blauedrache.net

Go to "John's Page" and you'll find what you might need.

Steve
Can't run a hyperlink
Tiger101
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Posted: Friday, March 11, 2005 - 04:39 PM UTC
Steve thanks for the link it helps me out too. I think I am going to end up building for this campaign if it gets off the ground.
95bravo
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Posted: Friday, March 11, 2005 - 04:51 PM UTC
Me too.

The one for my father in law is a practice run for the "Big Show"
 _GOTOTOP