Looking good!
Mark
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Ships by Class/Type: Frigates
This is for topics on modern Frigates. For the sailing variety they should still go under Sailing.
This is for topics on modern Frigates. For the sailing variety they should still go under Sailing.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
Australian FFG (Oliver Hazard Perry Class)
d6mst0
#453
Joined: August 28, 2016
KitMaker: 1,925 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,298 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 11:21 PM UTC
Ned,
Looking good!
Mark
Looking good!
Mark
RedDuster
Joined: March 01, 2010
KitMaker: 7,078 posts
Model Shipwrights: 6,649 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 07:43 AM UTC
Coming on great Ned,
Not far to go to commissioning.
Cheers
Si
Not far to go to commissioning.
Cheers
Si
RussellE
#306
Joined: June 27, 2010
KitMaker: 3,959 posts
Model Shipwrights: 2,777 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 09:13 AM UTC
Hi Ned 
yep, it's essential to apply a gloss clear coat over any mat surfaces before applying decals, otherwise silvering is guaranteed!
Nonetheless, she's looking great. Have you thought about purchasing a display case for her? Maybe a wall unit with glass doors? That's where my "fleet" is "docked"
yep, it's essential to apply a gloss clear coat over any mat surfaces before applying decals, otherwise silvering is guaranteed!
Nonetheless, she's looking great. Have you thought about purchasing a display case for her? Maybe a wall unit with glass doors? That's where my "fleet" is "docked"
Choowy
Joined: April 17, 2015
KitMaker: 125 posts
Model Shipwrights: 125 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 02:56 PM UTC
Thanks Mark, Si!!
Yes Russell planning on a display case, the only way to keep it clean and protected. I'll get a glass case made then fit a suitable base to it. Most likely similar to your KG5 sitting on keel blocks.
I've read a fair bit about the gloss undercoat need for decals but haven't settled on what type to go with. We cant get "Future" in Australia so looking for a recommendation for a gloss acrylic?
I've only got an area about 15 x 15mm to do on each side. Not crazy about coating the whole hull either but concerned about the possible mismatch in texture/shade if I do a small area. I will matt spray it to blend it back in. That's probably my biggest concern so far.
Yes Russell planning on a display case, the only way to keep it clean and protected. I'll get a glass case made then fit a suitable base to it. Most likely similar to your KG5 sitting on keel blocks.
I've read a fair bit about the gloss undercoat need for decals but haven't settled on what type to go with. We cant get "Future" in Australia so looking for a recommendation for a gloss acrylic?
I've only got an area about 15 x 15mm to do on each side. Not crazy about coating the whole hull either but concerned about the possible mismatch in texture/shade if I do a small area. I will matt spray it to blend it back in. That's probably my biggest concern so far.
RussellE
#306
Joined: June 27, 2010
KitMaker: 3,959 posts
Model Shipwrights: 2,777 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 04:14 PM UTC
Hi Ned
I'm a bit of a clear coat extremist even when there's no decals to apply.
Generally I'll apply a clear gloss coat to the whole vessel followed by a Matt clear coat to finish as this seems to be the best way to avoid speckling on the matt coat, and conceals all those blobs of glue & any fingerprints that may have snuck in.
It also gives a depth to the paint that to my eye is lacking when there's no clear coat.
I use Humbrol mat & gloss clear coats which are readily available here in Vic
I apply the clear coats just before the very last stage of rigging as I use enamels & the rigging would dissolve with the solvents, not too mention the ghosting effect you'd get.
For such a small area you could apply the gloss with a wide flat brush, then mat coat over the decal afterwards with your airbrush
I'm a bit of a clear coat extremist even when there's no decals to apply.
Generally I'll apply a clear gloss coat to the whole vessel followed by a Matt clear coat to finish as this seems to be the best way to avoid speckling on the matt coat, and conceals all those blobs of glue & any fingerprints that may have snuck in.
It also gives a depth to the paint that to my eye is lacking when there's no clear coat.
I use Humbrol mat & gloss clear coats which are readily available here in Vic
I apply the clear coats just before the very last stage of rigging as I use enamels & the rigging would dissolve with the solvents, not too mention the ghosting effect you'd get.
For such a small area you could apply the gloss with a wide flat brush, then mat coat over the decal afterwards with your airbrush
Choowy
Joined: April 17, 2015
KitMaker: 125 posts
Model Shipwrights: 125 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 05:27 PM UTC
Thanks Russell, that's great advice. I'll get that brand, I wasn't sure what was currently successful in the market place.
From what I can find its water based right?
Nice info on the effect it has to reduce the blobs as well.
From what I can find its water based right?
Nice info on the effect it has to reduce the blobs as well.
RussellE
#306
Joined: June 27, 2010
KitMaker: 3,959 posts
Model Shipwrights: 2,777 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 08:41 PM UTC
That's ok Ned, hopefully I can help a bit.
Humbrol clear coats are available as either enamel or acrylic so you can choose what works for you
Personally I use enamels as that's what I'm used to (although I'd like to migrate to acrylics one day, depending on what Sovereign hobbies does with Colourcoats range).
Anyway I start with the gloss coat to prepare the surface, add decals if required and then finish with the mat coat Keep in mind these are enamel though.
For aircraft I'll usually finish with satin coat as I find it too dull using the mat coat.
There's some great videos on those pages too.
However, you use acrylics, and acrylic gloss may suit you better. You can then finish with the mat coat
Again there's some helpful videos.
Of course it all comes down to personal tastes and what's available locally. I prefer Humbrol as I grew up with them, and I'm comfortable with using enamels and find that they work well with the Colourcoats range too.
Not to mention that generally, Humbrol are easy to get.
Metro hobbies in Melbourne can be of good assistance.
And I'm sure the aircraft and automotive guys have their own preferred brands for clear coats as well.
Looking forward to see how you go.
Humbrol clear coats are available as either enamel or acrylic so you can choose what works for you
Personally I use enamels as that's what I'm used to (although I'd like to migrate to acrylics one day, depending on what Sovereign hobbies does with Colourcoats range).
Anyway I start with the gloss coat to prepare the surface, add decals if required and then finish with the mat coat Keep in mind these are enamel though.
For aircraft I'll usually finish with satin coat as I find it too dull using the mat coat.
There's some great videos on those pages too.
However, you use acrylics, and acrylic gloss may suit you better.
You can then finish with the mat coat Again there's some helpful videos.
Of course it all comes down to personal tastes and what's available locally. I prefer Humbrol as I grew up with them, and I'm comfortable with using enamels and find that they work well with the Colourcoats range too.
Not to mention that generally, Humbrol are easy to get.
Metro hobbies in Melbourne can be of good assistance.
And I'm sure the aircraft and automotive guys have their own preferred brands for clear coats as well.
Looking forward to see how you go.
Choowy
Joined: April 17, 2015
KitMaker: 125 posts
Model Shipwrights: 125 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 03, 2019 - 01:45 PM UTC
Thanks for clarifying. I'm tempted to go with acrylic gloss but believe I can also go clear enamel over the top of existing acrylic with no issue (as long as its been fully dry for at least 24 hrs) from what I've read. I can also test first.
Have read some conflicting reviews abut the Humbrol clear gloss acrylic regarding a milky artifact in some cases. Always good to get some current feedback on performance.
Have read some conflicting reviews abut the Humbrol clear gloss acrylic regarding a milky artifact in some cases. Always good to get some current feedback on performance.
RussellE
#306
Joined: June 27, 2010
KitMaker: 3,959 posts
Model Shipwrights: 2,777 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 04, 2019 - 11:17 AM UTC
I think you're spot on Ned: test and trial and error. Find out what works best for you.
In my experience, I've had no problems with the clear enamels from Humbrol, as long as a few basic rules are adhered too:
1. Ensure your airbrush is properly cleaned prior to use to avoid any prior colours contaminating it.
2. Make sure the clear goes on "wet" enough. Now that's a tricky one as a number of factors affect this. Distance to work piece (The paint dries before hitting the surface), the tip is too fine (too much air not enough paint), insufficient air pressure, or even poor thinner to paint mix.
So, again, test and trial and error. Practice, practice and yep, practice again until your confident, whichever brand you go with as you don't want to get to the finish line on a big build like a ship, then ruin it in the last lap with a dodgy clear coat.
Of course, the cheats way is to apply the clear gloss coats for decals with a flat brush as we discussed earlier, then just brush over the final mat clear with a flat brush. But again, find what works best for you
In my experience, I've had no problems with the clear enamels from Humbrol, as long as a few basic rules are adhered too:
1. Ensure your airbrush is properly cleaned prior to use to avoid any prior colours contaminating it.
2. Make sure the clear goes on "wet" enough. Now that's a tricky one as a number of factors affect this. Distance to work piece (The paint dries before hitting the surface), the tip is too fine (too much air not enough paint), insufficient air pressure, or even poor thinner to paint mix.
So, again, test and trial and error. Practice, practice and yep, practice again until your confident, whichever brand you go with as you don't want to get to the finish line on a big build like a ship, then ruin it in the last lap with a dodgy clear coat.
Of course, the cheats way is to apply the clear gloss coats for decals with a flat brush as we discussed earlier, then just brush over the final mat clear with a flat brush. But again, find what works best for you
surfsup
Joined: May 20, 2010
KitMaker: 1,230 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,212 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 04, 2019 - 10:07 PM UTC
She is coming along very nicely indeed. Look forward to seeing more.....Cheers mark
JJ1973
#345
Joined: August 22, 2011
KitMaker: 1,835 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,832 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2019 - 07:14 AM UTC
Very nice work - I do have a soft spot for those OHP's for some special reason.
You are doing a splendid job - be careful with the coat, Russ' advice is absolutely spot on.
Cheers,
Jan
You are doing a splendid job - be careful with the coat, Russ' advice is absolutely spot on.
Cheers,
Jan
Choowy
Joined: April 17, 2015
KitMaker: 125 posts
Model Shipwrights: 125 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 - 09:10 PM UTC
Thanks Rus,
tested an area out on a scrap and I think I've got a process. Rather than do a whole section I've isolated just an area around the decal and layered up several diluted gloss coats by brush. I found in testing with the airbrush it was easier to apply by brush. Spare decal went on well with no silvering and then I matt sprayed over the top and it blends really well. No sign of the gloss area. On 1/350 scale its only an area 8mm x 12mm for the ships number.
I think I'll have to matt coat the entire hull however but that's not an issue as it sprays on well.
Seems like a lot of procrastination but I didn't fancy ending up like Mr Bean after he cleaned the painting of "Whistlers Mother". Too far in to ruin it now.
Thanks Mark, Jan. Just need to keep on rolling.
tested an area out on a scrap and I think I've got a process. Rather than do a whole section I've isolated just an area around the decal and layered up several diluted gloss coats by brush. I found in testing with the airbrush it was easier to apply by brush. Spare decal went on well with no silvering and then I matt sprayed over the top and it blends really well. No sign of the gloss area. On 1/350 scale its only an area 8mm x 12mm for the ships number.
I think I'll have to matt coat the entire hull however but that's not an issue as it sprays on well.
Seems like a lot of procrastination but I didn't fancy ending up like Mr Bean after he cleaned the painting of "Whistlers Mother". Too far in to ruin it now.
Thanks Mark, Jan. Just need to keep on rolling.
ChurchSTSV
Joined: September 20, 2017
KitMaker: 350 posts
Model Shipwrights: 175 posts
Posted: Monday, August 19, 2019 - 04:53 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks Rus,
tested an area out on a scrap and I think I've got a process. Rather than do a whole section I've isolated just an area around the decal and layered up several diluted gloss coats by brush. I found in testing with the airbrush it was easier to apply by brush. Spare decal went on well with no silvering and then I matt sprayed over the top and it blends really well. No sign of the gloss area. On 1/350 scale its only an area 8mm x 12mm for the ships number.
I think I'll have to matt coat the entire hull however but that's not an issue as it sprays on well.
Seems like a lot of procrastination but I didn't fancy ending up like Mr Bean after he cleaned the painting of "Whistlers Mother". Too far in to ruin it now.
Thanks Mark, Jan. Just need to keep on rolling.
RussellE
#306
Joined: June 27, 2010
KitMaker: 3,959 posts
Model Shipwrights: 2,777 posts
Posted: Monday, August 19, 2019 - 09:58 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks Rus,
tested an area out on a scrap and I think I've got a process. Rather than do a whole section I've isolated just an area around the decal and layered up several diluted gloss coats by brush. I found in testing with the airbrush it was easier to apply by brush. Spare decal went on well with no silvering and then I matt sprayed over the top and it blends really well. No sign of the gloss area. On 1/350 scale its only an area 8mm x 12mm for the ships number.
I think I'll have to matt coat the entire hull however but that's not an issue as it sprays on well.
Seems like a lot of procrastination but I didn't fancy ending up like Mr Bean after he cleaned the painting of "Whistlers Mother". Too far in to ruin it now.
Thanks Mark, Jan. Just need to keep on rolling.
Good to hear it's going well Ned.
A little patience and some experimentation can save you ruining years of hard work... Just like our hapless hero, Mr Bean Looking forward to seeing the results.
Choowy
Joined: April 17, 2015
KitMaker: 125 posts
Model Shipwrights: 125 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 12:18 AM UTC
Worked out OK. Numbers run parallel with the boot topping and match the correct position and spacing. Doesnt look like it does in the pic, but from side on its good.
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Still needs the matt coat though.
[/url]Still needs the matt coat though.
Quincannon
Joined: June 22, 2018
KitMaker: 275 posts
Model Shipwrights: 273 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 10:30 AM UTC
Just a quick question for you Ned. How far back does the the Australian Navy's practice of using black anti-fouling paint on the under hull of their ships go? Is it of relatively recent vintage or does it go back to World War II or possibly before?
Choowy
Joined: April 17, 2015
KitMaker: 125 posts
Model Shipwrights: 125 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 11:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Just a quick question for you Ned. How far back does the the Australian Navy's practice of using black anti-fouling paint on the under hull of their ships go? Is it of relatively recent vintage or does it go back to World War II or possibly before?
That's a good question Chuck. At least back to the 60's but from a quick look online at some older RAN ships there's footage showing it does go back as far back as WW2. Hard to tell unless you see a ship in drydock/launching. I have no idea why.
I know when the US built FFG's (01-04) arrived in Oz that they had black boot topping and red anti-foul but following the first scheduled hull clean and dry-docking it was changed to all black. Interesting I found a short video of ex HMAS Sydney (FFG 03) prior to scrapping in 2017 and it shows the black/red combination. Strange?
Quincannon
Joined: June 22, 2018
KitMaker: 275 posts
Model Shipwrights: 273 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 02:42 PM UTC
I find it very attractive on your model. Not that it is different, just simple and attractive.
RussellE
#306
Joined: June 27, 2010
KitMaker: 3,959 posts
Model Shipwrights: 2,777 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 10:38 PM UTC
the numbers look great Ned!
Interesting to learn that the RAN has taken a different approach with boot topping than the RN or USN
Interesting to learn that the RAN has taken a different approach with boot topping than the RN or USN
JJ1973
#345
Joined: August 22, 2011
KitMaker: 1,835 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,832 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 - 07:47 PM UTC
Ned,
the numbers look spot on! As does your FFG!
Cheers,
Jan
the numbers look spot on! As does your FFG!
Cheers,
Jan
Choowy
Joined: April 17, 2015
KitMaker: 125 posts
Model Shipwrights: 125 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - 09:40 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I find it very attractive on your model. Not that it is different, just simple and attractive.
Thanks Chuck, I do like the traditional red anti-foul but in this case it does look clean.
Choowy
Joined: April 17, 2015
KitMaker: 125 posts
Model Shipwrights: 125 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - 09:53 PM UTC
Thanks Rus and Jan.
Alas all is not well however.
I sprayed both areas around the numbers on the bow with a thinned down acrylic matt and ended up with this artifact.
I put it back into its case and walked away from it for a week.
Back on it today and decided that the easiest way to try to remedy was to carefully mask just outside of the decal and hit it with the original hull colour. Most of the effect was outside of the decal area anyway.
Gave it 2 light coats and it looks pretty good although I will need to touch up a small area below the number but this paint brushes on well. The other issue was when peeling off the mask tore a small piece of the drop shadow line off the number which I will need to replace by hand with a tiny brush (very carefully)
Not sure what went wrong but I did use water to thin the acrylic matt and perhaps should have used the thinner which is part water and part isopropyl alcohol. Anyway I don't have any more decals to fix and I don't want to risk trying to apply a matt coat over the whole model just for protection.
Back on track I believe. Will post a pic once I'm happy with the finish.
Alas all is not well however.
I sprayed both areas around the numbers on the bow with a thinned down acrylic matt and ended up with this artifact.
I put it back into its case and walked away from it for a week.
Back on it today and decided that the easiest way to try to remedy was to carefully mask just outside of the decal and hit it with the original hull colour. Most of the effect was outside of the decal area anyway.
Gave it 2 light coats and it looks pretty good although I will need to touch up a small area below the number but this paint brushes on well. The other issue was when peeling off the mask tore a small piece of the drop shadow line off the number which I will need to replace by hand with a tiny brush (very carefully)
Not sure what went wrong but I did use water to thin the acrylic matt and perhaps should have used the thinner which is part water and part isopropyl alcohol. Anyway I don't have any more decals to fix and I don't want to risk trying to apply a matt coat over the whole model just for protection.
Back on track I believe. Will post a pic once I'm happy with the finish.
d6mst0
#453
Joined: August 28, 2016
KitMaker: 1,925 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,298 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - 11:59 PM UTC
Ned,
Well that really sucks, I never seen that happen before. Glad to hear your solution is working, just to bad you had to rework the hull.
Mark
Well that really sucks, I never seen that happen before. Glad to hear your solution is working, just to bad you had to rework the hull.
Mark
RussellE
#306
Joined: June 27, 2010
KitMaker: 3,959 posts
Model Shipwrights: 2,777 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2019 - 09:27 AM UTC
Proceed with caution Ned.
Good luck! Hope it can be rescued!
Good luck! Hope it can be rescued!
JJ1973
#345
Joined: August 22, 2011
KitMaker: 1,835 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,832 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2019 - 05:29 PM UTC
Oh....what everyone said, that's really bad and hurts. I can feel your pain!
What you did sounds good, I hope you're achieving the desired effects. And I hope you don't loose your love for your model over this!
Cheers,
Jan
What you did sounds good, I hope you're achieving the desired effects. And I hope you don't loose your love for your model over this!
Cheers,
Jan
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