_GOTOBOTTOM
Site Related
Site related feedback, issues, or suggestions.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
Keep the faith, mates!
Gunny
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: July 13, 2004
KitMaker: 6,705 posts
Model Shipwrights: 4,704 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 09:38 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Mark

I found this out whilst lurking in the wilds of the internet.

I thought it might add value to this discusion.

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/participation_inequality.html

Regards

Sean



Thanks Sean, that's a VERY interesting and useful article. . .
~Mark
staff_Jim
Staff MemberPublisher
KITMAKER NETWORK
Visit this Community
New Hampshire, United States
Joined: December 15, 2001
KitMaker: 12,571 posts
Model Shipwrights: 267 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 10:41 PM UTC
There is also a theory of "critical mass". Model Shipwrights has not achieved this and never did as a sub-section of Armorama either so really nothing has changed. It will take a lot of work by a team of dedicated staff members and contributors to get this site to the point that it is mentioned alongside the other (whole) 2 sites out there. In some ways it's very frustrating that those sites with their infrastructure limitations and lackluster forum system (on one of them) don't inspire more ship modelers to frequent other sites.

In short... frustrating. But not to the point of giving up.

Jim
redneck
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 06, 2005
KitMaker: 1,602 posts
Model Shipwrights: 665 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 11:02 PM UTC
This may be a dumb question but what is the theory of critical mass?
Gunny
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: July 13, 2004
KitMaker: 6,705 posts
Model Shipwrights: 4,704 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 11:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text

This may be a dumb question but what is the theory of critical mass?


Completely technical link Here
MartinJQuinn
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 574 posts
Model Shipwrights: 530 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 01:24 AM UTC
Every site has it's growing pains and it's ups and downs. Starting something as ambitious as ModelShipwrights is going to take time until it gets up a healthy head of steam.

I visit this site everyday, but only post when I have something to contribute or something to say. At the moment, my four month old daughter and home renovations are keeping us busy, so I don't have much time for model building, hence I don't have any progress photos to post.

I would encourage others to try and add their photos of in-progress builds to the photo section, then post the links here for everyone to enjoy. Nothing like seeing someone else's work to get the creative juices and the ship model-building conversation flowing.

IMO, this site has already been a huge success, espeically considering that there are already some dedicated ship modeling sites out there, like ModelWarships.com and Steel Navy. This site will find it's niche, as those did, and continue to grow and be prosperous. As I said, I think it will just take time.
Murdo
Visit this Community
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: May 25, 2005
KitMaker: 2,218 posts
Model Shipwrights: 214 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 01:36 AM UTC
Well, I follow more network sites than my normal Armourama 1/35th tanks.

I browse here occasionally. I have an Airfix 1/72 RAF rescue and a Vosper MTB to build so I'll add my bits as and when to support the site.

As I'm currently re-locating from Germany to the UK this will take a few months before I'm back online but I will be back.

And I'll post my builds.
jRatz
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
Model Shipwrights: 134 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 05:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

This may be a dumb question but what is the theory of critical mass?


Completely technical link Here


In less technical terms, Jim simply means that we have not yet got enough people participating to generate a self-sustaining, even increasing, flow of postings.

IMHO, collapsing the number of forums should help that by drawing the CV, BB, CA, DD, etc guys together -- to follow Gunny's "Big Bang" analogy, it's like drawing rods from the core ...

Anyway ...
John
jRatz
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
Model Shipwrights: 134 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 08:34 AM UTC
Gunny,
One thing I noticed is that we don't have an in-progress, constructive criticism forum -- an "On the Ways Forum", if you will ...
Maybe that would help site discussion ...

John
Gunny
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: July 13, 2004
KitMaker: 6,705 posts
Model Shipwrights: 4,704 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 02:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Gunny,
One thing I noticed is that we don't have an in-progress, constructive criticism forum -- an "On the Ways Forum", if you will ...
Maybe that would help site discussion ...

John


I hear ya, John. . .I myself have started threads on the topic, asking this very question about the fact of needing some constructive critique, with not much feedback at all. . .maybe a designated forum heading might be an answer, or even a " sticky note" type thread that could be added to and never dissapear from the list. Definite food for thought!
~Gunny
Clanky44
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: September 15, 2005
KitMaker: 1,901 posts
Model Shipwrights: 934 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 04:28 PM UTC
Having been away from computer access and with plenty of time on my hands lately to think of ways to generate interest to this site, this is what I've come up with....

The inspiration came to me from seeing a very gifted modeller showcase figures on tanks..... not the whole tank, but just the turrets, usually one or two full or partial figures, my first thought was, wow....how creative!, quickly followed by hey, how time saving is that?!?

https://armorama.kitmaker.net//features/977&page=4

If we translate this to Model Shipwrights, we could similarily concentrate on portions of a ship, say a 350th turret, or a floatplane on catapult... give it the full works with photo-etch and place it on a nice finished wooden base, completed ship model in a fraction of the time, and hey..... if you catch the bug and feel like completing the rest of the ship, you can just lift the turret off the base and place it back on the ship.

Frank
Gunny
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: July 13, 2004
KitMaker: 6,705 posts
Model Shipwrights: 4,704 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 04:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Having been away from computer access and with plenty of time on my hands lately to think of ways to generate interest to this site, this is what I've come up with....

The inspiration came to me from seeing a very gifted modeller showcase figures on tanks..... not the whole tank, but just the turrets, usually one or two full or partial figures, my first thought was, wow....how creative!, quickly followed by hey, how time saving is that?!?

https://armorama.kitmaker.net//features/977&page=4

If we translate this to Model Shipwrights, we could similarily concentrate on portions of a ship, say a 350th turret, or a floatplane on catapult... give it the full works with photo-etch and place it on a nice finished wooden base, completed ship model in a fraction of the time, and hey..... if you catch the bug and feel like completing the rest of the ship, you can just lift the turret off the base and place it back on the ship.

Frank


PRECISELY, Frank!!!

It's features like this that this site is absolutely yearning for, and with such a dynamic resource available to us such as the KitMaker network, thinking "out of the box" is an absolute must, as there is SO much that this site can (and will) offer to the shipwright!

Thanks for the comments, mates, Keep 'em coming!!!
~Gunny
jba
Visit this Community
Rhone, France
Joined: November 04, 2005
KitMaker: 1,845 posts
Model Shipwrights: 502 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 07:10 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Gunny,
One thing I noticed is that we don't have an in-progress, constructive criticism forum -- an "On the Ways Forum", if you will ...
Maybe that would help site discussion ...

John


I hear ya, John. . .I myself have started threads on the topic, asking this very question about the fact of needing some constructive critique, with not much feedback at all. . .maybe a designated forum heading might be an answer, or even a " sticky note" type thread that could be added to and never dissapear from the list. Definite food for thought!
~Gunny


John and Mark,
sorry that must have been lost in translation for me (i comprendo ze engliche very schlecht) but what difference are you doing between "constructive criticism forum" and a "feedback " one? do you mean that you get only praises on "feedbacks"? and "constructive criticism" on the other one? praise can surely get along with constructive criticsm?
I know that i always put my "in progress" stuff in "Carpenter stuff", which i consider being a "On the Ways Forum", is it not?
please ignore if what i wrote is too twisted, i should stop drinking so much coffee :-)
Gunny
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: July 13, 2004
KitMaker: 6,705 posts
Model Shipwrights: 4,704 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 07:40 PM UTC
Good point, JB!

I think that John is looking for a more specific heading, though, although, "The Bridge" IS the proper feedback forum. . .have another cup of coffee with me!
thathaway3
Visit this Community
Michigan, United States
Joined: September 10, 2004
KitMaker: 1,610 posts
Model Shipwrights: 566 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 03:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text

......., we could similarily concentrate on portions of a ship, say a 350th turret, or a floatplane on catapult... give it the full works with photo-etch and place it on a nice finished wooden base, completed ship model in a fraction of the time, and hey..... if you catch the bug and feel like completing the rest of the ship, you can just lift the turret off the base and place it back on the ship.

Frank


That is an outstanding idea. When I started out last year on my Missouri, I wound up doing exactly that, with the main gun turrets being completely built to include the 40mm on the top.

Seeing just that part completed really motivated me to keep working to see how the rest would come out.

Tom
gator
Vendor
GATOR'S PAINT MASKS
#027
Visit this Community
Louisiana, United States
Joined: April 13, 2005
KitMaker: 5,422 posts
Model Shipwrights: 5,079 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 05:19 AM UTC
One day I'll get back on my 1/72 scale 5" twin turret.
jRatz
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
Model Shipwrights: 134 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 06:54 AM UTC
Jean-Bernard

If you check Aeroscale or Armorama, you will see they each have a forum whose specific purpose is "Constructive critique of your finished or in-progress photos."

While I agree that "The Carpenters Shop" sounds like it ought to be that forum, the description underneath implies something else.

There are two types of fedback -- there's the non-critical where everyone says the model looks great, which is akin to what you have to say about your best friends new baby, etc ... Then there is the "constructive criticism" forum where the modeler puts his work up for critical analysis & has to live with the coments. The good thing is that one can offer "constructive criticsm" without getting flamed for telling the truth (politely).

Gunny, given the remarks, here how wabout checking into either getting us another forum. I think we could build on something there.

Guys would still have option of posting elsewhere if they didn't want "constr crit.." ...

John
95bravo
Visit this Community
Kansas, United States
Joined: November 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,242 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,064 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 09:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text

One day I'll get back on my 1/72 scale 5" twin turret.


I wondered whatever became of that. I really liked it!



The idea of a critique is great. I however, would be the first to say that I would be hesitant to post an in progress photo of anything I was working on; not because I would conciously be afraid of what might be said of it, but I consider myself way outclassed here. I'm sure that there are those who are far less "vocal" than I, who like me, would feel a little intimidated to post their work in progress....I guess what I am trying to get at, is that it should be called something else other than a critique. I know from being around you guys that it's more advice and helpful hints than a "critique". but those who have just found their way here may not. I suck when it comes to building floating things, but I'm too stupid to know when I'm licked. I think if it were considered something other than a critique that newbies and guys like me (a person who builds sinkings waiting to happen) would be more comfortable in using it..

Anyway...that's my take. As incoherent as it seems.





John I heard Roy has came to senses and is coming back to Kansas.......
Gunny
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: July 13, 2004
KitMaker: 6,705 posts
Model Shipwrights: 4,704 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 02:39 PM UTC
Sorry Guys, I thought you guys were talking about site feedback. . .I'm all in favor of a "Show and Tell" type forum for displating works, both current and past. Another valuable idea thrown on the table, mates, one which will improve the site, and also add more excitement for the users! Let's keep this frame of mind and discussion rolling!!
~Gunny
Drader
Visit this Community
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Model Shipwrights: 94 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 07:47 PM UTC
Hiya Mark

I was viciously forced out from my office at the start of September to do archaeology in the remoter bits of Essex, and tended to fall asleep soon after getting home. Which cut down my participation more than a little. Of course now I'm back at the desk, there are 1001 things to tidy up. Have only just got back into Armorama .

About the only move in ship modelling I've made recently was to pick up the Heller Guillaume le Conquerant - which is I'm amazed to say almost entirely different to the Oseberg model. I thought it was just the stem and stern post decoration that was changed when in fact it's almost everything....

David

Littorio
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: September 15, 2004
KitMaker: 4,728 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,080 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 07:52 PM UTC
Gunny I'm going to keep this short...ish.

As last night I spent 30min typing my ship building life story out to you guy's hit submit and have my computer crash on me lossing the lot.

basicly I had a forced absence from the site for about 4 months missed the 'infighting' and restructuring, what a surprise when I came back!

I'm mainly a aircraft and armour or armour and aircraft modeller depending on the way I feel at that time, and dabbal in ships from time to time. I always try to visit MSW at least once a week but if I'm at work I do not always log in (boss away today). My naval knowledge is restricted to what I have in my book case - German WWII, British/commonwealth cruisers WWII, British battleships 1919 - 1939, Destroyers and carriers WWII and British Pacific fleet WWII plus a few other books.

I'm also learning the art of PE in all scales and all areas as well as the dark art of the airbrush.

MSW is a friendly site and I will always post when I can but I tend to have more questions than answers.

PS. Gunny I think you would be ideal for the ME position if of course time and family allow.

Ciao
Luciano
blaster76
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: September 15, 2002
KitMaker: 8,985 posts
Model Shipwrights: 3,509 posts
Posted: Friday, October 20, 2006 - 03:46 AM UTC
Maybe too much emphasis is being placed on number of posts. I look at places like Modelwarships web, and in all honesty there isn't all that much movement . I've posted on the site and a month or so later it is still depicted on the first page. Now in Armorama, if no one responds to your post in aobut 4 hours you are on page 2 and in 10 hours back to page 3. Shipsmodelers like their subjects are more one of a kind individuals. We are a small part of the hobby and with the great variance in scale and the history of warships going back 5,000 years, have a little more diversity, there is reason for not a lot of posting. I like battleshis and aircraft carriers. Ibuild large scale. Rodger loves British cruisers and does 700 scale. Alan is building 35th scale transport boats. Rui loved submarines. I know Drader does ancinet sailing vessels. The only commonality is that they all are on the ocean.

I have tried on several occassions trying to get guys from the other web sites ot post here. They seem to be quite comfortable where they are. Never having been to Steelnavy I don't know their setup , but I know it is extremely difficult to post pictures and the like on their site. Most everthing refers you to some other site to look at someones work. I love the fact that here we can show off our work within our posting. I think that fact alone willeventually attract more folks. So I post and keep the faith, you do the same
Gunny
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: July 13, 2004
KitMaker: 6,705 posts
Model Shipwrights: 4,704 posts
Posted: Friday, October 20, 2006 - 05:51 PM UTC

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quoted Text

Hiya Mark

I was viciously forced out from my office at the start of September to do archaeology in the remoter bits of Essex, and tended to fall asleep soon after getting home. Which cut down my participation more than a little. Of course now I'm back at the desk, there are 1001 things to tidy up. Have only just got back into Armorama .

About the only move in ship modelling I've made recently was to pick up the Heller Guillaume le Conquerant - which is I'm amazed to say almost entirely different to the Oseberg model. I thought it was just the stem and stern post decoration that was changed when in fact it's almost everything....

David



Quoted Text


MSW is a friendly site and I will always post when I can but I tend to have more questions than answers.

PS. Gunny I think you would be ideal for the ME position if of course time and family allow.

Ciao
Luciano


Hi David and Luciano!

Yes, mates, things have changed a bit at KitMaker, hasn't it?!
And definitely for the better, all around, IMHO. . .All of the new sites are doing their best to adjust, develop, and maintain activity, while building a new, solid membership.

We too at MSW will soon begin to do this as well, as we can't go anywhere without a capable staff, in which at this point, I am leaving in the most capable hands of our CEO, Jim Starkweather.
I have submitted my resume in to HQ for the ME position, and would be delighted to man the helm here at MSW!

We must all be patient though, Jim's a busy man, and this is no snap decision to make. . .the ME position is a HUGE one, and I'm sure this is a decision that is not an easy one. . .so once again, do keep the faith mates, keep the good, helpful, spirit of the MSW forums alive with much chatter and modeling talk, as we are still very much an alive and capable website, we may have listed a bit to port, but we're still moving ahead at a good pace!

Thanks again for all of the support and helpful comments and feedback, my friends!
Mark
Tomfan
Visit this Community
Slovenia
Joined: March 04, 2006
KitMaker: 113 posts
Model Shipwrights: 103 posts
Posted: Friday, October 20, 2006 - 11:02 PM UTC
To keep the spirit up on shipbuilding forum... Today I have recived 2 ships...
1/350 Trumpeter The Sullivans, and ICM Koenig WWI battleship!
jRatz
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
Model Shipwrights: 134 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 05:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

....The idea of a critique is great. I however, would be the first to say that I would be hesitant to post an in progress photo of anything I was working on; not because I would conciously be afraid of what might be said of it, but I consider myself way outclassed here. I'm sure that there are those who are far less "vocal" than I, who like me, would feel a little intimidated to post their work in progress....I guess what I am trying to get at, is that it should be called something else other than a critique.....


I think we'd be pretty self-policing. The emphasis is on CONSTRUCTIVE critique ... telling someone they can't build squat isn't right ... helping them to improve is ...


Quoted Text

John I heard Roy has came to senses and is coming back to Kansas.......


In your dreams only ... not with the recruiting class we've got !!!

John
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
Visit this Community
Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
Model Shipwrights: 476 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 10:18 AM UTC
Ahoy All,

Admittedly I have not read all the posts in this thread.

Naval is a subject I bounce back and forth into slowly, and for short periods. I do try to stop in here weekly.

I am preparing to photograph my Heller Pinta, built 10 years ago. Also, I intend to review Tamiya's Z-Zerstorers, plus my Osprey book about them.

Like so many I am in a severe time crush. Alas, I have been (lamely) running Fighters Under the Midnight Sun Campaign at Aeroscale, and took on the role of host at ModelGeek's Railroad Forum.

I must admit this past week is the first I have heard of infighting at Armorama. I used to be at Steel Navy alot and know how bad 'friendly fire' can get. I hope things ahve cooled off here--I am not really certain what it was about here.

I did like the pre-segmented Armorama a little better than the current set up, but not enough to complain at all.

Of the dozens of sites and groups I am a member of, without a doubt Armorama and subsites are the best, friendliest that I know of (with the possible exception of Frisco Railroad, but I haven't been there for a long time, either)! Indeed, I hardly ever go to any of the other non-Armorama sites anymore!

Rui, I didn't know he was gone, either. Hope nothing serious, my experiences with him have all been great. Rui, thanks for your time on-site!

I look forward to everyones' models!
 _GOTOTOP