Ahoy, mates!
I feel that I need to take this time to talk a little to my friends about our home here, Model Shipwrights Scale Modeling Magazine, that is. . .
A recent comment in a thread post has given me the feeling of need to do this,



and although stated in a jokingly (but very true) manner, struck a bit of alarm in myself, and prompted me to have a talk with you all. . .

We're definitely in a lull here at MSW, and I can only hope that it's a temporary one. We are in the midst of a major staff change with the Skipper stepping down as ME, and many of our regulars just don't seem to be hanging around as much.

But, I have noticed alot of new names being present at roll call on the screen bottom, even though not active in the forums. I'm confident that when we do start back on track with a new ME, and also a fully operational staff we can pull our foundering ship up and make this the best damned ship modeling website ever! But to be a total success, we will need all of the members help as well, because we are a member driven website, and without your participation, content submittals, and ideas, we're just a load of staff members without an active membership, know what I mean?

I'm hoping that everyone will keep the faith, not lose interest in our home here at KitMaker, and when we do get rolling again, jump on ship and shovel the coal with the rest of us to get us blazin' full steam ahead again!
I still believe that our membership here at MSW is the most friendly, knowledgeable, and helpful group of guys around, and together, we can accomplish these goals. Jim Starkweather created this new website for US, my friends, and we should do our best to keep the site healthy, and moving in a positive direction.

So what do you all think? Let's use this thread as a positive building block, and give me your feedback on the matters at hand. . .remember, it's your website too, and without active members, we're just a ship out of water, so to speak. . .

I believe as soon as 1. the 1/72 scale Gato, and 2. the 1/35 PT show up, there will be more posting about our builds on these.

Although I love seeing the smaller scales, especially 1/700, I afraid with my eyesight and hands these are totally impossible for me to even think about ever building, and I certainly envy those with the skill and talent to do them. But I also realize that these smaller scales take a long time and concentration to build, and there for possibly the slow down in postings.

My posting across the network has slowed down as I'm doing more building and writting. And this pulls me away from posting more often. (unless it's a "dumb Grumpy question", or a little light hearted banter to make folks laugh!)

Greeting all,

I have to agree that since the split up in the site things have slowed down considerably. I don't know what the numbers of Ship Builders are or were before the split, but probably not as much as armour.

We used to get drop-ins from others who might just have had a passing interest. The split naturally means that they concentrate on their particular subject.

I only drop into Modelgeek now and again, I have only visited the figures and aircraft sites about 3 times. Before I would have spotted something that caught my interest and had a look see. This is still available under latest network posts, but I find now that I go directy to the site I want and ignore the rest, because the buttons there.

I am sure this is the case across the network. There was an announcement some time back about new 'helpers' but I don't see them post very often???

My main interest is armour and then 1/35 small boats, so I'm more inclined to pick up on the things that interest me personally. I still have a look and make a comment if I see a kit on display, but being a novice and having a limited knowledge of all things naval I often can't respond to news items and stuff I know little or nothing about.

I think a lot of the bickering that went on on the Big A put a lot of people off. All I can say is that it's a very friendly crew here, very helpful and has a much different atmosphere that other parts of the newwork I could mention. I don't know if the other parts of the site are down in post numbers, but that might have had something to do with it.

I know a few folks have moved elsewhere.

Where I can, I cross post in either dios or figures sometimes directly or sometimes with a link back because the whole point of posting is feedback. I put some new figures on yesterday, both here and on the Big A, did I get any feedback - No, so in a sense why bother to take the pictures and time and trouble to post them? I'm not looking for praise although when you get it it's nice, what I want is opinions or suggestions that help me improve. (Gunny and Grumpy excluded)

I don't expect everyone to post, but I try where I can to add a comment or a thank you even in the posts I'm not that interested in.

Perhaps it's just a case of the fact we are all too busy, jobs, families, children etc etc and sometimes don't have the time to post.

37 is the most shipmates on line at any one time so far, we all have different schedules, live in different parts of the world so we don't always connect in real time. Folks like me drop in and out depending on what we are up too. That can make the site seem a bit 'empty' also.

Personally I still find Shipwrights the friendliest and most relaxed of the sites and it was that attitude that drew me towards boats in the first place, so thanks guys.

We need a new Skipper in place without further delay, and we need some more input from the crew, so get your camera out and post a picture that gives us all something to enjoy and talk/moan about LOL, LOL.

Some thoughts anyway.

Cheers

Al

PS the figs are in my original post LOL, LOL.

I was one of the concerned voices when Jim S. revealed his plans to split up the Armorama site into the present network of sites. My concern initially, was that the strength of Armorama was in its diversity. A site unlike anything else in modelling, where you had all aspects of modelling under one umbrella. As a builder of Ships, Armour, Aircraft, Cars and Sci-fi models, the site proved to be a one stop source for all that was needed. The core of Armorama was and will always be armour, it's membership lists heavily to the core of the site. Both the casual observers and frequent contributors to the site realize that the membership in both Aeroscale and Model Shipwrights section have very limited participants. What sets the fly-boys from the sea-legs apart (participation wise) is the higher difficulty and greater time needed to complete a 'good' ship model. With no disrespect to our friends at Aeroscale, an aircraft can be put together in a day to a few weeks, where a ship will take a much greater amount of time and effort to complete. For this reason alone, it's normal to see much lower participation here.

One final note, I have to agree with Alan, the recent all too public infighting throughout Armorama did a lot of serious damage. A great number of bewildered bystanders did get turned off and have either reduced their participation or have left the site. There is way too much black and white within these walls,... and not enough shades of grey..... I believe in this site, and will continue to contribute. Hopefully in the future, my busy life will allow me the time to help out more.

Frank

I completely agree.

Perhaps we should try to increase the members on this side of the site buy involving people from the other parts of the network?

If we did a campaign again that allowed other things besides just ships like we did with flattops and post about it in the other boards some of the people who come over might get the urge to build a ship. And then may even build more.
I know I was just interested in Armor and Planes before I built my first ship here.

Just a suggestion.

We used to get drop-ins from others who might just have had a passing interest. The split naturally means that they concentrate on their particular subject.

I only drop into Modelgeek now and again, I have only visited the figures and aircraft sites about 3 times. Before I would have spotted something that caught my interest and had a look see. This is still available under latest network posts, but I find now that I go directy to the site I want and ignore the rest, because the buttons there.

I know this is a fact for several of my friends.
We,ve discussed on several occasions since the division.
The division...I think that the good out weighs the bad but it has made adifference.
To remind myself to visit each division, I have each one in my browser bar so each just requires a quick click and thy're always visible.

As for me, I just trying to get a couple of things finally finished and I'm the editor of our IPMS clubs newsletter. So my posting is very sporadic right now.
Got to get this type IIA Mirage sub done so I can start on my Trumpeter Gato.
Best regards,
Gary

As one of those folks that in a round about way got involved in the infighting, I cut bak my participation in Armorama. I revised some things in my profile like changng my avatar and changing my affiliations on my little quote section. At no time did it afect my attitude towards Model Shipwrights. I get on the site everyday and look to find somethng to post advice or a remark. I feel a great responsiblity to this site as I guess I'm sort of the senior member now.(as in longest time aboard) . We're not going anywhere folks. As has been said, model shis are very time consuming projects. I can knock out a first rate tank model in 3 - 4 weeks. A really nice ship in my favorite 350 scale takes 2 to 3 months. I don't like to do weekly reports on my progress, but if that's what it takes to help keep interest up, then maybe I should.
Somethng I think that is very healthy on the site is the trivia chain. Problem for me is you guys are way to smart. I got my butt whipped badly there. But I enjoy reading it as much as the guys playing it..
We also just ended a really warm end of summer early fall...folks are still doing outdoor activities. So, I think things will pick up a bit. Anyway, what is the worry, this isn't a business and none of us is trying to make a livelihood out of it.

For the umpteenth time ...

The split into sub-sites fractured the COMMUNITY. Yes, Armorama is primarily armor (& me a softskin guy), but with everything together we got a lot of cross-over. That feeling of community is gone -- not just from the split, but the way it was done (& I don't mean the fighting).

MSW split off into too many topic forums - that made it worse & I quit. Now that they have collapsed into fewer, I spend a bit more time here. Also, easy access to many of the common forums was cut-off. Most have been restored, but note neither Aeroscale or MSW have a link to A-Guard, which I know many were/are.

The strength of the old Armorama was the COMMUNITY. I can get as good or better information on other sites, but I hadn't found any I liked to be on as much as (the old) Armorama with its diversity of topics and of people.

I frankly think trying to make the best ship/aircraft/train/whatever site is simply a reach too far ... maybe it'll work, but it'll take time ... I read an interesting article on the "J-curve" as it applies to nation changing. Tilt the "J" about 45 to the right. Assume you start at the tip of the "J" on the left & start to change -- the organization will slip down lower, to the bottom of the "J", until it starts to grow to the right and up again. But note how quick the drop and how long back up again ... Maybe that is where we are ...

FWIW ...
John

My particpation, or lack there of, has been due to work. I haven't had the time as I did a year ago. Although, I have noted the split in what was the community after the change as John pointed out. It doesn't seem as cohesive as it once was. And also as John pointed out, perhaps it will take time to re-establish that feeling of community. Despite it all, I still come here each day to see what's new and probably always will. Besides, it's my duty to see to it that Dave (Grumpy) spews his coffee all over his monitor at least once a month.

Hey guys. I posted here twice today and deleted both, they were knee jerk responses. I can only speak for myself when I say I kinda feel bad about my sporadic post, especially over the last week with my own campaign up and running. I know you lead by example and what the old saying is about excuses. That being said, I have given my word to Gunny over the last couple of months to do whatever I can to help out with the site. I found myself having to make myself post. My thinking was how many times can you tell someone “nice job” or “that looks great”. But, after reading Alan’s post, I realize how selfish I was being, not thinking of the person who started the thread. I know that I have had the feeling of being ignored because a thread went by for a day without a post. And to say that this is going on network wide is a copout. When I have posted on the other Kitmaker sites with a question, it gets a response within a day. I know that we all have busy lives, but if I’m trying to find out the answer to a question, I need to let the person who started the thread know.

Disclaimer – I’m only coming down on me. Your feelings on this issue are yours and I’ll respect that. For me, I know what I need to do for MSW, and that’s my banner to wave. You’ll have to find yours on your own.

Later…Gator

I’ll admit that I’m on the site a lot (the entire network and not just here.) And probably don’t post as much as I should.
When I’m home alone working in or around the house I usual have the site up all day and quickly check for new posts between doing things. Of course this doesn’t give me too much time to really read much so I just check things I think I’ll be interested in.
Also as of late I’ve been working away from the house a good bit so I’m on even less now.
And considering I’m no expert on ships most of the time I do post I’m asking questions and not giving answers.

Gidday Shipmates

Mark thanks very much for bringing this topic up.

Something I have been personally dwelling/reflectng over for a short while.

I think the others have raised some very valid points and I cant say I disagree with them. Its all great food for thought.

Focusing on our forum Model Shipwrights I see that we are in an infant /transition stage after all the restructuring. I think long term it will be healthy. I agree its all about participation but also enthusiasm. Its the great guys here and their enthusiasm and energy which have helped turn modelling around for me personally. Therefore as a flow on from that the next most critical step at this point in time is the appointment of the new ME. I believe that maybe that this factor may either save or sink the forum. I believe the qualities that the new Editor must possess are being positive, energetic, enthusiastic and truly passionate about ship modelling and this forum.

Also the structure of support staff below that is doubly important. Therefore the right personnel decisions need to be made and a long term plan for the forum developed and followed. I would like the new ME to outline his/her plans for the forum and how he/she sees it evolving.

I see the point of having more staff than crew but a structure for future growth is important.

There is a small but hardcore group here. All good people with lots of great advice. In fact I personally feel this small but intimate forum has a good community feel about it right from the top down.

As regards the site wide issues yes it has been my observation that there has been widespread fall out as regards it but in my personal opinion I have turned away from the larger site and focussed more on Model Shipwrights. To be honest its this particular forum which has kept me here.

Yes I would dearly love to see this forum more active and I can't really make excuses for my personal poor contribution as regards articles, reviews etc. I have some planned and I intend that they will happen. I think personally I need to make a more earnest effort to post topics and be more proactive.

Crikey better be careful I might end up talking myself into a staff job. LOL

Seriously though I am more than willing to contribute, assist and work for this forum to enable it to grow and succeed.

I hope this viewed as constructive because that was my intention and as my personal (ever evolving) views only.

So I quess it is a lull but is it temporary? I think it will really depend on some key decisions to be made in the next short while.

Regards

Sean

Thanks for the replies thus far, mates, I really appreciate your honesty and feelings. . .I'm very passionate about this topic, more than some I'm sure, and there are many reasons for discussion such as this. I don't want to lose any of our crew here, and greatly encourage and enjoy seeing new names at the bottom of my screen at roll call!

Don't be shy, newbies! We don't bite (well maybe just a little! ), if you see a topic that you would like to comment on, or have a topic that you would like to start, than go for it! Jump in and get yer feet wet, ya landlubber!

It will be interesting to see what unfolds in the weeks to come, and remember, I'm always here if you need anything, or have questions that you may need an answer on. . .I'll do my best to get you an answer or at the very least direct you to where you may find help.

I really do love this site, it's community, and what it stands for. . .and I honestly do believe that we CAN be the best site on the net, with everybody doing their part, that is. We have a tremendous, dynamic, website resource, right at our fingertips, just begging to be put to use to it's fullest extent. . .all it takes is fresh ideas, dedicated enthusiasm, and a desire to be the best.
Cheers!
Mark

Some great insights and reflections posted here. I'm primarily an Armor & Diorama builder (though to be honest, not very prolific at either) so I spend majority of time there. But I'm a 'modeler' and very much enjoy a diversion and 'floaty things' are great for that. I like to have several projects going on at once for the variety, but fall into the old trap of too many projects and not enough progress. Also, my main modeling time is just starting as my Baseball coaching and running a large League takes up a great deal of time from Spring to Summer. I'm very anxious to "get back into the fight" and focus more on building. The inspiration for that is here in the 'Forums' whichever one peaks my interest and enjoy the 'comraderie' and the people. Often I keep the site up most of day and check in periodically. I usually read many postings but only comment when I feel I have something of value to add.
Also agree with others that despite the initial problems, things will work. A good way to get more involved, is to get more involved. The campaigns are great at that in all the diverse areas. So for "Model Shipwrights" we've got another great one going, "Leyte Gulf" and need more participants and 'cross-overs'. As mentioned before, I've got several 1/700th kits to 'donate' (mainly IJN Battleships & Cruisers that were there) to anyone interested and doesn't cost you anything other then to sign up for "Leyte Gulf" Campaign and enjoy. Grab one and invite (or 'Shanghai') a mate to come over too. Just send me a PM.

Blade48mrd

Hi All,
Just something to think about (we need an emoticon scratching it's head)

Can a space on the main pages be added that gives instructions on how to join as a member, not all the visitors who, let's face it, probable only clicked on armorama.com to see some pics of some good models (at least to start with) search through the site(s) and look at the site related topic forums and such.
I remember it took me ages to take the plunge and join. Can't it be made easier. Eventually some of the new members will start posting and giving feedback etc..
Tom

Someone in a post above made the valid obseration that ship modeling takes a bit more time than the others. I'll concede that but don't want to imply all a/c & armor kits are shake & bake ...

Point is that Aeroscale and a couple others have a Model Of the Month -- we could use same. Aeroscale has a couple special builds going on (such as the Early Age one). These aren't Campaigns or Group Builds as we know them, just an interest thing.

I think we'd need to get over all our parts & pe & camo schemes and get some modelling & historical reference stuff moving ... maybe more small pieces rather than waiting for the whole ship to be finished ... or guys that grab small kits they can knock down quickly ...

Just a thought or two ...
John

I too agree with this statement, John. . .I build all model subjects myself, not just ships, and there have been quite a few AFV's that put up more challenge than any ship that I have ever worked on. It all depends upon the amount of detail that you want to add. Shoot, I've got a 1/35 Tiran that I've been adding/changing to for a couple years!




Very true, as well. . .Ive been planning on a couple of these myself, mate!




Again, agreed upon, mate. . .I have many new and fresh ideas of how to jump start the site, and make the entire experience a more enjoyable one. The Kitmaker Network is such a dynamic being, just dying to be utilized! But we have to start first with a good staff that's willing to accomplish these ideas, and much, much more. . .It's almost as if we're re-starting again here at MSW, and as soon as we can get an operational staff appointed and working together, things will change quickly and efficiently. . .associate editors to give the ME a hand, content scouts to seek out and procure new and exciting content, and forum hosts to moderate, and build their seperate forums into healthy, instructional, and exciting discussions. It's going to take a lot of hard work, understanding, and dedication to accomplish what we all want here at MSW, but I for one sincerely believe that it can and will be done, and we can be the best ship modeling site on the net! Thanks for your input, John!
~Mark

I'm still lurking around. I am a AFV builder mainly, but love those Battleships, Batllecruisers and Heavy cruisers in 1/350, and the sharp tang of salty sea air!
Hopefully some manufacterer will soon bring out a Prinz Eugen and Scharnhorst class for me to add to my growing collection.

This site MS is a nice friendly bunch of guys, that exhibit good manners and a helpful attitude so it can only grow.

I hope that you have put yourself forward as skipper Gunny, we need an enthusiastic commander like you!

Hi Erin!
Thanks for the input mate, and I'm so glad that you can say these kind things about our crew here at MSW. . .Ship builders are definitely a minority in the hobby, but we do have alot to choose from, and there is always a new variant on the horizon that someone is putting on the market. . .we all like to help each other (as well as newbies! ) out here, and most of us will do whatever it takes!

About that Scharnhorst class my friend, you might want to take a look HERE and bookmark the page! Tamiya also has a 1/700 scale as well as a few others!

And about that Skipper position, well, we'll see what happens!

Keep modeling!
~Gunny

Hi Erin,

I'd second that.

Cheers

Al

It would be interesting to see the amount of page hits against posts, to see how much traffic MSW gets beside forum postings.

A few thoughts on previous comments.

People like to see photographs, especialy 'in progress' shots. A project shared gives others a feeling of participation, the first step on the way of a (succesful) interactive site. It will also get those from other Kitmaker sites interested, as most will be interested (and impressed, 1/700 PE railings... ) to see a build develop, but maybe less in the theoretical or historical side of MSW.

A fact is that there will be less ship builders out there, when compared to wingdingers or track heads. So you are likely to have a smaller group, with less activity overall.

Activities like goupbuilds ad competitions are a good way to get people involved, and to get them to return. But again, it does need frequent progress posting.

I don't think the site division is to blame. (I'm not saying this as a staffer by the way, this is as I see it... ) The other sites are just one, two cick at most away. The links are at the top of every page, and depending on which page you are, often t the right site as well. The Latest Post page was resurrected to facilitate access and to enable all to stay in touc with what's hapening accross the network.
I appreciate that people have there own prefered way of doing things (he, I do, and I get frequent strange looks wherever I go. But it works for me.. :-) )

On the subject of building ships, I have made shamefull progress on the Cutty Sark (i.e. one at all... ) since I layed her up in dry dock last year. A combination of lack of time, other models (and site work) and the fact that I have reach the point where the masts have to go up (no room to put her away inbetween progress..) have kept me from returning. But I will, I will...

Cheers
Henk

Hi Mark

I found this out whilst lurking in the wilds of the internet.

I thought it might add value to this discussion.

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/participation_inequality.html

Regards

Sean