Acoustic Mines BMA or BM1000

Not quite Pawel. What I can tell you is that it belongs to the "Aircraft Mines - SVK" category...

Robert

Robert,

A Luftwaffe magnetic mine


Bert

Hi Robert,
thats an airborne parachute mine of Luftwaffe origin (Luftmine Typ B) with magnetic and acoustic fuses, modified for laying by s-boats (without parachute and fins) and introduced 1943, called LMB/S.


Michael

And congratulations to the winner of this week's contest: MICHAEL!
(Although something's telling me our friend cheated here...)

PM me to let me know what flavoring you'd like your lollypop with.

Robert

Oh no my friend, not cheating - but a great capacity for remembering
Months ago we've dicussed the usage of the short and the long curved rails. And the long rails crammed with EMC's... too heavy for an s-boat. So the conclusion was to use longer rails for longer mines; this compared with my posting concerning the last mine laying sorties in 1944/45 and indicating the mine type layed by s-boats... easy solution

Back to the lollypop: cognac-flavour would be great, or strawberry!

S-25

Ok - an Airmine.

con someone explain me a little the relationship between that airmine and our S-Boats?

Hello Christian,
that type of airmine was use on s-boats! Some time ago, we had the same discussion base on the question, what the reason was, to use the long curved rails we found on the S-204/205 pics. I've posted the diary of the last s-boat sorties; there you can find not only the date and the number of the boats, but also the type and number of mines they've layed. And the named type wasn't only EMC but LMB! The cigar-shaped LMB is longer than the ball-shaped EMC and that was the reason the use the longer rails! The LMBs were modified for KM usage (no parachute, no fins) and therefore the name changed to LMB/S.
Later Robert found a pic, showing LMBs on an s-boat and posted it here, some pages back.

Michael

ahhhhhhhh - I see,

thanks for that explanation

Hallo Michael and Christian,

Glad Michael was able to answer your question about LMB mines while we were on a rainy and gray Italian vacation, Christian.
With some delay, here's a modified drawing to illustrate his comment, that I hope will help to understand better how an air mine became a sea mine.

Robert
E-boat plans for S100 and S38 B types can be found here: http://rpalmacci.free.fr

OK, not bd, how many of those mins where the S-Boats able to tak onboard (quite a big one), how have they get this to water (maybe I missed a picture in our thread), standing up with a "car" underneath?

Hi Christian,
go back to page 24 and you will find the first discussion concerning the mine question:

- 25.02.1945
mine-op. against Thames-Schelde-traffic; 5 boats layed 30 mines (6 mines per boat)
- 28.02.1945
mine-op. against Thames-Schelde-traffic; 4 boats layed 24 mines (6 mines per boat)
- 08.04.1945
13 boats planted 52 mines. (4 mines per boat)
- 12.04.1945
12 s-boats... 48 mines layed. (4 mines per boat)

I think, the s-boats could carry 4-6 mines; maybe the war diary lacks of counting the planted Reißbojen! A normal payload could be: 4 EMC + 2 Reißbojen or 6 EMC (both possible on the short rails. Or up to 6 LMB, but than on the longer curverd rails. I prefer a load of 4 EMC and 2 Reißbojen - can be a "vision of delight" on my beasts stern...

Michael

Hello Pawel, That is quite an ambitious undertaking, not one, not two, but three S-boote. I admire your tenacity and the quality of the workmanship displayed. You will have a terrific collection when you are finished. I am looking forward to seeing your project through to its completion. Al

Hello Michael,

Thanks for your support, I roughly went through all our pages, but must have missed this discussion on page 24.

Two questions here, which source (book) are you quoting here – I have the book of Kurt Frank (currently at page 66) and from Frierich Kemnade (not yet started)

Second question, how has the crew handled the mine into the water? The pictures presented also in the forum http://atlantikpirat.proforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=480&start=60&sid=95cb0a7af619e1d4d95e084d845e2f76

Do not show the wagon underneath the mine

CTA

Christian,

If you closely look at the second picture to the right showing a TMB mine on board of S29 on the link you just posted, you'll notice a flat base ending with a curved edge supposed to maintain and hold the mine. That's part of the trolley in which crew used to slide the mine by hand inside the rails.

This mounting accessory was also used for both LMB/S and LMF sea mines
(source: "German Underwater Ordnance," Baart's "Schnellboote" and Frank's "Die Deutschen Schnellboote im Einsatz" books.)

Hope it helped!

Robert

Hello Robert,

I notid the holding of the mine on the picture, but could not thought about the rest of the trolley. Now I know, thanks for clarifiation and the picture.

Christian

Hello Christian,
the short war diary is a summary of 30 book pages screening operations of the 4th SFl. vs all s-boat sorties.
And this is the book I've used:
"Die deutschen Schnellboote im Zweiten Weltkrieg" by Gerhard Hümmelchen, Mittler 1996, ISBN 3-8132-0487-1
http://www.amazon.de/Die-deutschen-Schnellboote-Zweiten-Weltkrieg/dp/3813204871

Michael

Hello Michael,

Thanks, I just received the book from Friedrich Kemnade which I want to read first, before buying another S-Boat book.

In Hans Frank book "Die deutschen Schnellboote im Einsatz" it is simply mentioned that they are using Mines from german airforce, however no details on the adjustments number of mines per boat etc.

I just read this yesterday on my usual way from Frankfurt to Berlin.

I also received yesterday a picture book "Kriegsmarine am Feind" with some pictures from S-Boats during operation "Weserübung" and some pictures on S Boats in general. Only pictures from S25 Type, S30 and S38 type (one very early with a mounted MG standing on the back).

By the way Michael and all other Gentlemen, even though the MG30 was the most favorite MG type on S-Boats, the amunition is very limited (compared to an MG40 or 42 with an ammobox asside)

Does anyone have a picture of a S10 or S25 type boat where the question for amunition for the front MG is answered?

By acident I found the following page with pictures from S31 which sank near Sicily: http://www.divesubway.com/schnellboot.html


regards

Christian

Hi Christian,
sorry but that's wrong! The MG30 wasn't used by german forces, it entered the armed forces of Austria and Switzerland. But Rheinmetall-Borsig modified the MG 30 design for use as an aircraft gun, producing the Flugzeugmaschinengewehr 15, or MG 15 - and that type was used on s-boats.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_30

Michael

ahhhh, yes sorry Michael, the MG 15 of course... my mistake...

anyway, coming back to the MG which was mounted on the back on the first S Boats, anyone got any idea how the amunition situation was dealt with?????

CTA

Terrific work Gents, really awsome stuff,

Al

Hi Christian,

The KM had a real crush for the MG15 wherever it was located. Either it was fitted on starboard, port, at bow, stern or later fixed to the armored bridge. And this 'love story' worked too for either single or twin-machine guns.

It seems to be indisputable that the double-drums loader, as this photo taken near Oslo (and more) demonstrates it, was also the darling of the crews.


Alan, welcome onboard!

Robert

Hello Christian,
I thiunk the first s-boat types used the MG34 on a pedestal mount on the forecastle. Here a pic I found in Steve Wipers "German S-Boats":


You can see an attached double ammo drum; an ammo belt isn't usefull in this unprotected position.
MG 15 were aircraft weapons and only used at the end of WW2.

Michael

Not quite, Michael. Sorry! I agree with you that earlier S-boats had an MG34 (and in some cases, the obsolete MG08/15) fitted in bow when not supplied with the 2cm Rhein-metall MG C/38 cannon. But later, with the incoming of the S-38 class -- and this wasn't by the end of the war -- could be seen our boats with MG15 ornamented here and there all over their decks.

Robert
(and still a 'Caporal-Chef'... I'm on low wage for much too long, me think!)