Thanks Jan appreciate that,

Got enough going on other things that I can slow down on this project,

Picking up the Trumpy Z30 - to build as Z23, (needed a couple more 5") so will do this a duo build I think.

Cheers

Si

Simon,
I'm not sure how interested you are into aftermarket, but if you are, here is a small bit of info if you want to replace the plastic guns on your Z 30 with brass barrels.

The 15cm gun of the German destroyers was shorter than the 15cm gun of the light cruisers or secondary batteries of the capital ships. Exact data can be found at Navweaps.

For practicality purposes, you can buy the larger gun of the larger vessels and shorten it with no loss of accuracy in your model.

Best wishes,

Gaz

Thanks for the info Gaz,

I am not intending to replace either 150mm with brass barrels, the trumpy kit barrels may not be slide moulded but they are not bad, and the breaches are quite nicely moulded.

Cheers

Si

First job before thinking about a cut, measurement.

Using the waterline as the datum the kit measures 334mm long, giving a length of 116.9m, making it a little short for a Mod 1936, just slightly long, (2.5mm to be precise), based on my razor saw blade being 0.5m thick, that means removing 1.5mm. The jury us out whether I am gong to do that, more important would be lengthening the hull if I was building a Mod 1936.

On with part two of this threat, which should be re-titled "Bismarcks Destroyers" the Z23,I am using Trumpy's30.

The sprues.



This kit also has the 127mm guns for the Hans Lody on the sprues.

The barrels, the two on the left compared with single 150mm on the right.



and the shields, no prizes for guessing which s which.

cheers

Si

Bismarck's destroyers, nice idea Si!

I had no idea that there were 127mm guns included in more Trumpi destroyer kits the in the Z43...have to check on my stash...

Anyway, should you change your mind with respect to the barrels, ABER offers 150mm and 127mm turned brass for DKM destroyers.

Cheers,
Jan

Hi Jan,

Thanks mate, I will keep an eye on Hannants, they stock Aber, and I can get them 10% off and no postage if I pick them up from the shop.

Made a start on the Z23, will post some pictures shortly.

Cheers

Si

Whilst considering the next move on Hans Lody, work on the Z23 under way.

The Hull is a one piece moulding, the main deck and bulkead at the break of the fo'c'sle fitted with etched door overlays.



The Z23 hull next to the unmodified Z17 hull, which is notably shorter and less beamy, the more I look at it, the more I am leaning to not shortening it.



fo'c'sle deck on.



Prop shafts and rudders assembled and fitted.



Lower bridge assembled.



and test fitted.



More soon on both vessels.

Cheers

Si

Very nice work Si!
I like seeing them side by side and the subtle differences. It will be a very brave move to cut out just 1.5mm

cheers

Michael

Very nice start on your Z23, Si!!

- I think I would not cut the hull of the Z17, the difference really would be marginal....
And for the shafts, actually Trumpi is wrong and the Z17 has it right, the DKM destroyers had asymmetrical, different length shafts.

Cheers,
Jan

Thanks Michael,

I don't think I will be that brave, especially if it involves cutting in two places. Could end up with the hull shorter than it should be.

Cheers

Si

Thanks Jan,

I tend to agree, unless the proportions of the fo'c's'le and the maindeck are noticeably out for a 34.

The shafts I did not know about. Might attack the starboard shaft housing to try and shorten it a bit.

Appreciate the help mate.

cheers

Si

Made two decisions,

I am not going to try and make the less than 1% correction the Hans Lody's hull, and I am going to live with props on the Z23.

Z23 primed, lower hull pained.



Both lower hulls masked.



and sprayed, XF83 with a touch of XF84.



I have worked out the following changes I need to make to the Mod 1936.

In no particular order,

1. Funnels, need to be taller and more flat sided.
2. B, Q and X (or 2, 3 and 4) Gun platforms need reshaping.
3. Rear end on forward funnel base needs rebuilding and reshaping.(section at maindecklevel)
4. Gun platforms around the after funnel need removing and the asymmetric 37mm platforms scrathuilding.
5. New rangefinder platform aft of after funnel.
6.New AA platform for the two single 20mm on the after superstructure between the 127mm guns.

Those are the main bits I have notes s far. too may inor odds and sods to note.

The one thing I haven't made a decision on yet.

The Scheme that I reckon I most likely. is the ne shown or the Z24 below (the above is the scheme I will be using for the Lody.



below shows again the Z24, but mentions I the text Z23 wore that scheme in 1941.



The pictures come from German Naval Camouflage Volume one 1939 - 1941 by Eric Leon and John Asmussen.

I have a feeling the first option is correct for May 1941, but the second looks much more interesting.

Any thoughts guys.

Cheers

Si

Hi Si,

in my opinion, two good calls on the boats, I think I'd done the same! Definitely for the Lody's hull, and looking at the props and shafts of the Z23, just shorten one a little would have meant quite some reconstruction to that area - not done with just shortening one a little bit...

Looks good with first color on!
- I'd go with the simple scheme for Z10, and the more complex one for the Z23...but that's just me...

Cheers,
Jan

Are the gun turrets red?

Hi Jan,

Thanks for support mate. without decent drawings altering the prop shaft correctly would be very difficult indeed.

I am tempted to go for the fancy scheme for Z23, I can find no pictures or data with providence to confirm which she wore in May '41

I will think about it whilst I am away from the bench over the next few weeks.

Cheers

Si

Hi AJ,

The destroyers turrets would have been red, air recognition for the Luftwaffe, as they would not be operating outside Luftwaffe air cover. (I doubt the Luftwaffe's ship recognition, and the kreigsmarine's aircraft recognition was not better than the RAF's and Royal Navy's (I won't mention the Fleet air am confusing the Sheffield for the Bismarck)


Cheers

Si

You may check "Unternehmen Wikinger" / "Operation Wikinger" 1940 on the web, you'll find sources in English and German - good example of 'air recognition'...

Cheers,
Jan

Thanks Jan,

I will take a look at that.

Cheers

Si

Back from the family holiday yesterday, haven't caught up with the all goings on here yet, but got back in the workshop this afternoon.

Boot topping masked and painted on the Z10.



Masking off.



Started masking the camouflage on Z24, in order to get the stripes in the right place started building up more superstructure.



All masked.



Mid grey painted,



very dark grey - XF69 NATO Black.



Boot topping masked.



Masking off the Z24 and deck painted on the Z10.



More soon,

Cheers

Si

More work on the Z10, turning the Mod 36 into something resembling a Mod 34.

The bases of the three superstructure units assembled as per the kit.



Destruction done.



Blanks and a rough template for the asymmetric 37mm gun platforms.



shaped and brass support legs fitted, still need trimming to length.



After gun deck remodelled.



37mm gun platforms, supports for gun and webs on the outer supports on one side fitted.



Overwiew, work started on Bruno gun deck.



More soon

Si

Hi Si,

pretty nice progress!!

I'm a little bit restricted with the internet, I'll try to watch what is going on but won't comment much before I return from my leave. I'm enjoying Bowmore/Islay at the moment, with a proper Dram of course.

I sent you a pm some days ago with some information on the Z, I hope it is helpful. Any questions with translation etc. please ask or pm, I try to check MSW once a day or so...

Cheers,
Jan

Hi Jan,

Apologies mate, was on holiday myself when you sent it, hadn't noticed I had a PM. Great drawings also some notable differences between the Z1-4 batch and the Z5 and later, thank you very much for the help.

I have to admit this will not be 100% accurate, some more mods around the superstructure, new funnels, (that is a bit scary) and of course the 5" guns, It should look a lot more like a '34 than a '36.

Any comments critism always welcome.

Cheers

Si

Today's progress.

Underside of midships superstructure and supports for the after gun deck blast shield done.



Rough cut blast shield in place on Bruno gundeck.



Deck of z24 with a base coat of paint on it.



Overview on both vessels.





More soon.

Cheers

Si

Yesterday's progress.

The boat arrangements on the starboard side of the 37mm deck.

Overwide platform cut to fit the superstructure and davits scrounged from the Revell Bismarck (will be replaced with Pontos parts on that build.



Examining photos of the '34s the boat in the kit is two small, as I will have a couple of spare cutters form the Bismarck build one of those was scrounged as well. (with the Pontos etched parts for it)



Kit boat at the top.

Platform fitted and cut to size, Davits angled aft, as per photos.



Core for the new forward funnel build from plastic strip, the plan is to heat form plasticard to form the external shape.



Bridge has also been assembled to get the funnel the right (ish) height.

More work on the Z24's bridge to get ready for spraying.



and main superstructure.



Both vessels



Right, I am off to the workshop, more later.

Si

Small progress today.

For comparison a 127mm and 150mm mount built, noticeably different.



A break in the weather gave me the opportunity to get the airbrush out and spray the Z24's sub assemblies.



Deck painting underway, the lower bridge, (bit of cleaning up from the wash on the planking needed)



Screws on both ships.



More soon.

Si