Greetings everyone,

Several years back I purchased Accurate Armour's Quayside with the thought of someday combining it with their 1/35 U-boat VIIC model. Now, I'm back in the mood to make this project happen. However, try as I might I have been unable to locate any reference pics verifying that their quayside is modeled after the real deal. Can anyone verify that this piece really existed? Or am I dealing with a freelanced version of what might have been?

My problem is that I am looking to make some pretty considerable alterations to the quay to include some additional fortifications on one end, as well as incorporate a single pen of a u-boat bunker complex on the other side of the dio. My thoughts are to incorporate the quay and bunker into a single complex, with the the boat about 75% out of the bunker and moored to the quay taking on supplies for an upcoming patrol. I'm also looking to add a rail line as well as some wharehouse buldings.

There's no shortage of pics for the bunker, but I'd hate to start working up something of this magnitude only to find out I've blown accuracy completely out the window. The bunkers at La Pallice did incorporate a pier of several hundred meters coming off the front of the complex but I'm doubting Accurate's kit is actually modeled after that.

Here is Accurate Armour's kit:
www.accurate-armour.com/ShowProduct.cfm?CFID=2982747&CFTOKEN=56925159&manufacturer=0&category=13&subcategory=27&product=587

And here is Joseph Neumeyer’s version of the quay which is where I am getting my ideas for the beefed up fortifications
www.dynamicdioramas.org/sea_hunter/sea_hunter-Pages/Image0.html

And finally, a bunker similar to this on the right side of the dio:
www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/dio/dockyard/pen-700-ph/ph-index.html

I would appreciate any help or suggestions you can offer.

Thanks

http://www.accurate-armour.com/ShowProduct.cfm?CFID=2982747&CFTOKEN=56925159&manufacturer=0&category=13&subcategory=27&product=587




http://www.dynamicdioramas.org/sea_hunter/sea_hunter-Pages/Image0.html


http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/dio/dockyard/pen-700-ph/ph-index.html


Live links




EDIT.. Hmmm..copy and paste works, but the links don't..typical

Thanks for trying anyway

Nor do mine.. :-) :-)

Good luck with your project by the way, 1:35?? that would be how long? About 7-8 foot? Impressive.

Cheers
Henk

Yes, but I'm looking to keep the project under 8 feet in the event I need to crate it.

My quay is currenty assembled and I think I'm just under 7 feet if memory serves me. I looking to have the bunker cover the last couple feet of the quay which should leave me a foot or so to finish off the dio for my water and such.

This thing isn't only long, it's heavy too. The quay alone is like 15lbs of resin. Can't wait to see what I get after I start adding to it.

Hello Brett!

First of all welcome to Armorama!
And to the right place too It's nice to have another member with our interests!

Now to business:
The Accurate Armour quay is good but it represents the end of the access channel (almost like a breakwater or pontoon) to the Bunkers.
Although with this in mind, it's a do-able (sorry the word) Dio as long as you dont include the last part of the quay - or make a connection / bend.
I'll check my references tonight and post any more accurate comments.
Also will include the reference titles, isbn's!

I am really looking forward to see your project running!
Also have the AA Typ VII-C and XXIII waiting for a "perfect" way to make the water!
Joseph Neumeyer’s is a reference with his Dio!!! Have been following his work for years...

Please have a little patiente - tonight or tomorrow morning will have news for you!

The working links :
1/700 The Happy Time: St. Nazaire 1942 it's number 19!

Sea Hunter

Accurete Armour's Quayside

Accurate Armour's VII-C

Once again, Welcome

Skipper

Thanks Skipper,

So if I understand you correctly, cutting off the curved end and having the quay just run off the end of the dio with a straight section would be more believable?

Either that, or keep the quay as is and ditch the sub pen at the opposite end to more accurately represent a boat that had tied up near the mouth of the harbor?

If that be the case, as much as it pains me to consider ditching the gun emplacements/fortifications on the seaward end, I think the sub pen is going to be a MUST to do this dio up right.

Such a shame it's looking like I don't get to have my cake and eat it too!

No hurry on my end as I bought this thing somewhere back in the 90's.

Brett

This is what I can recall from memory - I can be wrong, and that's why I have to check it first

And if the Bunker is a must, you could leave the quay off! If you see any pics of Subpens the are broad, huge and tall (aka MASSIVE), and in 1/35, only if you made the doors and the beggining of the bunker, you'll have a three feet tall dio (to say the least)

Here are some online references: U-bunker (in German) but with goog pics

La Rochelle Bunker (Also in German) and also with good pics!

Keroman Bunker with plan sections and model - for Lorient U-bootbunker (see the quay position) also on the last picture on this link, you can see there's no quay near the bunker gates...

Check this references and let me know soemthing

Skipper

Bordeaux Bunker

Skipper

And of course u-boat.net u-boat bases section

Skipper

I've seen one of those bunker complexes modeled in 1/700 scale and you're thinking of doing it in 35th.
[b]HOLY MAHOLYb]

That ain't gonna be just big, it is going to be HEAVY. But what a magnificent undertaking. I have been impressed with just using the dockside quay with details.

Possibly an option to reduce wait is some kind of foam sandwiched between cardboard.

I know both architecture and industrial design students use it a lot. It shouldd be available perhaps even in a DIY store, otherwise a regular art store. It is commonly used for maquettes. Huge bulk, little weight.

Hope this helps to keep the weight down, and good luck with your project,

Harm.

Those are some really good links skipper - thanks.

skipper and everyone else, here are my thoughts so far....

The fact that I am starting with (and working off of) Accurate's Quayside already appears to limit me with regard to overall accuracy. It's become apparent that modeling a specific locaton isn't going to be an option. However, I'm comfortable doing something that "captures the feel" of some non-descript location. As long as I work within prototypical guidelines I believe I'll be OK.

I've been thinking about doubling the width of the pier and then adding various buildings and storage areas along the backside. Even with the addition of the boat I think I'll still be in the neighborhood of 30" front to back going that route. I'm OK with that as well.

As for the bunker:
From what I can gather some of the smaller bunkers were not nearly as massive as the ones that serviced larger flotillas. Also, in response to more frequent and agressive air attacks many were retrofitted later in the war which increased their height considerably. I'm thinking that by modeling an early war, smaller base, it would keep size constraints more manageable.

Constructing it out of foam and then skinning it with a coat of spackle or similar to simulate the concrete is probably the only way to go. Also, I'd need just one section to represent the specific stall that the boat had been housed in and just enough of length to cover the rear of the boat and give the illusion that the building continued beyond the dio. I'm thinking I can get away with a believable bunker and still keep in under 2 feet in height.

And yes, I did indeed start out quite happy with the model OOB. It's just the longer I worked on it and the more research I did the more ideas that started popping up.

The quay (as shipped) is, for the most part, finshed and ready for a coat of primer so I'm pretty much at the point where decsions need to be made as to what direction I'm going to take this.

I really appreciate all the imput so feel free to offer whatever suggestions come to mind.

The fist link that skipper provided has turned up a pic of what I had in mind for the bunker.

The bunker HORNISSE in Bremen
http://www.deutsche-marinegeschichte.de/geschichte/KMUBootbunker/Deutschland/UBBHornisse.htm

I think that's a great prototypical size that should be do-able at this scale.

Brett, I found myself in the same dilema. I also purchased the quayside & VIIC, back in the 90's [ great kits ] I also have Azmits Schnelle boat in 1/35th.
Man the plans I had for a super dio with all that..
As you have found out as well as I have historically it just can't be all tied together, warehouse area, bunker, rail line etc.
But what the heck, you have to admit as a poetic license build it would be awesome.
The kits were just too expensive not to build something like that - go for it all, would love to see pics too.
Cheyenne

Good morning Brett!

Already read your posts and I have to agree with your plan... but you don't need to make a Bergen U-bootbunker! You can make a section of La Palice.
If you'll use blue styrofoam, you can make the entrance of La Palice bunker, gate 1S, with the distinctive disruptive camoflage (black and white diagonal stripes). Next to the entrance is the quay,that can be yours.

I think that using the stryrofoam will make the vertical structure lighter. Don't forget that the concrete was poured into wooden boards "coffins", so a pattern of wooden boards would be needed on the spackle

With this you're "teasing" me to make my own AA VII-C

As promissed here are my reference Books for U-boat bunkers:

Hitler's U-boat Bases
By Jak P. Mallmann Showell
Sutton Publishing
ISBN 0-7509-2606-6

U-Boat Bases and Bunkers 1941-45
By Gordon Williamson and Ian Palmer
Osprey Publishing (Fortress Series)
ISBN 1-84176-556-2

There are some interesting pics of what I have explained to you (La Palice) and also a Dora I pic (although the quay is on the wrong side!!)

Please, keep us updated on your work Brett!
If you need more help, you know we are here
Don't be a stranger

Skipper

Hi Cheyenne

Yes I agree with the "poetic licence"!
That's why I never bought the quay...
I thought it should be one of this two options:
- Making the U-boat on the Sea (you can't get more poetry that this)
- Making the U-boat entering Harbour (before docking) with some buoy or other element to breack the greyish

But now this Bunker situation that Brett poped, started another option

Mrs. Skipper is NOT GOING TO BE HAPPY with my plans!!!

Tell us your plans for the Dio, Cheyenne

Skipper

Hi Skipper how ya doin.
As Brett [ Hi Brett ] stated I had also purchased my kits in the mid - 90s.
This was at a time when I had this grand plan to buy tons of kits and store them for my fixed income retirement [ 2 yrs to go - yippiee ].
Well I've been buying kits for about 10 or so yrs. so needless to say I'm definitely stocked.
As what Brett wanted to build so did I.
I wanted to construct a quayside with partial pen maybe - but my main idea was a seaside, bay or inlet town with quay, a rail head the VIIC, the Schneelboat [s.p.] lots of a.a., a hotel warehouses etc.
Definitely a Bob Letterman fan.
Then when research and reality set in it went on the back burner.
After reading Bretts post and the others and re-researching things, in the future I'll probably wind up building the poetic license thingie, because it's the only way I can tie all that stuff into my dream build.
And yes it will be a large daunting mission, the VIIC and quayside and S-Boat when layed out on my pool table with afore mentioned buildings etc., to me scales out to about 8' by 6' and thats after editing the original plan of 6 - 4' by 8' 3/4 inch plywood sheathing, which would have made it 12' by 16' what a nut case.
Well anyway one of these days I'm going to tackle it.
Cheyenne

Hello everyone,

Yes indeed Cheyenne, the scale of this thing is pretty over the top as is, and then we have to go and start looking for ways to add more to it. Absolute insanity no doubt!

But I agree with you 100% in that the kits are just sooo impressively big and complex (not to mention costly) that they just cry out for super dio status. So what the heck, why not is right. All I've got to lose is time right?

I'm reasonably confident this is going to work, it's just going to be a question of how much "poetic license" I want to take. That, and can I get this thing to some form of near completion before the Democrats wind up back in office (LOL)

So, now that I have an idea where I'm going with this I'm off to sort thru all the links and start working on removing the head of the quay (wish I had found this site before I spent all those hours fitting and finishing that part of the kit). I also have to do something with that back of the kit as it's not only unfinished, but pretty narrow for what I have in mind. Also, I'm still undecided as to whether I'm going to build it as a two-sided stand alone dock coming off the bunker, or a one-sided attatched to some groundwork, but I can work that out in the next few weeks.

One last question before I get back to work. I've looked at a lot of the pics already, but I still can tell how far the rail line comes out from the La Pallice bunker. The pics show the rail as it runs thru the dry tunnel mid bunker, but can't find a pic showing what happens to it after that. There is one shot down the length of the pier and it appears there is no rail from that angle but it's difficult to say for sure. Anyone know if it actually comes out onto thhe pier or does it stop prior to it?

Brett

Well Brett, Skipper, thanks ya got me thinking and I just had to play around with the kits and plan stuff.
Now that I've done that, this is going to be another career project for sure.
I'm planning another quay on the S-Boat side, so one 4'x8' piece of plywood should take care of the A.A. quayside, VIIC, S-Boat and its quay.
I'm going to 86 the U-Boat pens and add another 4'x8' piece of plywood along the 8' side to make it 8'x8' in total area.
The attachable piece of plywood will hold the town, warehouse and railhead area. Also now I have somewhere to put my Tank Workshop Kriegslokomotiven and assorted railcars.
The VIIC measures out at 6'3'' and the A.A. quay about 6' 8 or 9 inches.

I'm also a little pissed because I've found a chipped piece off the back of the conn. tower, and the kit was only opened and examined once when I got it and didn't notice it till today.
Also found my receipt in the box, I bought it in Oct. 1999 and can't believe I spent that much. Oh well they 're my toys.
Cheyenne

Cheyenne,

That's certainly going to be one monster to move around. Have you given any thoughts as to how you will transport it if you decide to take it to shows?

I'm looking at roughly a 30" x 96" base myself so I'm considering mounting 3/4" ply to a support grid of 1x2's underneath to prevent flexing. I'm also kicking around the idea of a removeable crate (top and 4 sides) that will just screw into the base. That way it can be carried to any location, set in place, and after you remove the screws the top and sides of the crate willl just lift right off leaving the dio behind.

If you haven't already discovered so, you're probably going to find that the Quay requires a lot of cleanup to get it to go together. I squared all the pieces up on a 12" disc grinder out in the garage. Surprisingly, the gel super glues worked well for assembly and I am able to easily handle the complete Quay without a problem. I just made sure that I reinforced the joints with 2 or 3 applications to be safe. Also, you'll probably have a lot of warpage as I did. I found that assembling the horizontal deck sections so I had all the scribed lines and molded relief lined up and then hitting the misaligned seams with an orbital sander worked pretty well. Then I filled any remaining gaps with putty and finish sanded for a smooth joint. I had to rescribe a few lines but that wasn't any real problem. If you find any large gaps on the vertical side panels just fill those with some srip styrene and then add putty and sand. It's a lot more like doing bodywork on a car than working on a model if you ask me.

All in all, I think I have about 30 hours putting the quay together so I guess it all depends on how rough your pieces are and how much work you want to put into it.

I'm going to be ordering the boat , some extra dock sections and some of their al-la-carte pieces in the next week or so. I also need to find a good supplier for that pink or blue expanded foam as my local Home Depot doesn't carry that stuff.

Good luck and I'm looking forward to comparing contsruction notes with you.

Brett

Howdy fellas,

I hope you don't mind, but I've been quietly ' lurking' around this thread and reading about your plans and I must say, I am very impressed by both the subject matter, and the scope of work.
Being a long-time fan of large, or 'museum' scale projects, your undertakings are right up my alley!

One of the reasons I originally stopped by this thread was because I have been looking for some dockside building inspirations for a project of mine that is set in the American Civil War timeframe. Namely a resupply dio setting for my 1/87th scale USS Choctaw Ironclad ship sitting dockside, or should I say railside with HO scale (1/87th scale) railcars disgorging supplies and such to the ship.
So your thread has been very enjoyable for me, and I can promise you I will be following along....

Best of luck with your builds!

Tread.

Postscript: Oh, cheyenne....please look for a PM from me...thx.

Holy Smokes! You opening your own museum or just adding onto the house?

Man that will be really awesome when finished.

too cool!


Steve

As I mentioned before, please keep us updated on your work progress (Brett and Cheyenne)

After this post I also started figuring out my thoughts for my own dio and came out with this:



Although it's a bad sketch, it makes 2.5 meters long and 1,20 meters tall (on the Bunker side)

Comments are welcome

Skipper

L.O.L., L.O.L., Skipper I love the confidence you have in Brett and myself.
Personally I think you just want to visit us in the hospital after our swmbo's choke us for trying to build that thing in thier houses.
As I was laying all that stuff on the pool table to better visualise the build, the wife walked by honing my best fillet knife muttering " that better not be there in 2 hours or you can sleep in your truck "
All kidding aside the u-boat pen can be added I mean what the hell it's 8' by 8' now might as well add 2' on the one end and put the pen in.
Only other problem now is you got me planning the scratch for the inside of the pen. Thats a dio in itself !!
Talk to ya later I'm going fishing now -- now where the hell is my fillet knife ?
Cheyenne