Ahoy, Maties!

I'm going to throw this out on the table for discussion, don't really know how much interest there would be or not, but I'm questioning the possibility of a Sailing Vessel Campaign or group build, which of course would be a lengthy one, wooden ship models preferably, including everything from two seater dinghy's to Morgan Whalers and up to Old Ironsides herself...
Would there be anyone else interested in such an idea, let's talk about it and maybe make it happen!

~Gunny

I've got some 700th scale row boats!

mind you it would be surrounded by other...... larger........ metal......floaty things.

Frank

Hey, pirogues (cajun canoes) are easy to build. 3 pieces of plywood and a little bracing and you're done. :-) Of course, I'll have to add the crawfish traps, ice chest of adult beverages and the paddle, good for propelling the boat and fighting off thirsty gators. :-) :-) :-)

Count me in.
Kenny :-) :-) :-)

I would certainly be interested...

A few problems however that I see now...

1) Wood is completely out of my budget. In general, and certainly considering my dream project (being the Sovereign of the Seas).

2) I have way too many unfinished projects as it is... The present assembly line includes a Yamato and KGV, a load of armor sufficient to equip a decent Kampfgruppe (with a heaps of firepower) and two winged units. Even though some of these projects will probably be sent to the scrapyard upon my return, I will still have to spend some considerable time on them before even thinking of taking on new projects (I am thinking of at least 6 months)....


So even though I applaud the idea (very few things beat a fully rigged 17th century 80+ gun Man of War), I will pass for the time being.

Harm

O yeah,

for those interested, whenever you come to the Netherlands, there are a few projects (finished and in progress) concering 17/18th century ships.

The "Amsterdam:" A fake (the cheated using steel beams and such) replica of a mid 18th century Dutch East India company merchantman (biggest class), which on its maiden voyage was wrecked of the English coast in 1749. The wreck has been discovered and excavated.

It currently resides next to the natinal Dutch maritime museum in Amsterdam.

The "Batavia:" A replica of a Dutch East India Company merchantman, as true to the original as insurance companies and visitor requirements allow) again biggest class, wrecked on its maiden voyage of the coast of Australia in June 1629. One of the most celebrated shipwrecks in history (due to the associated heroism and cruelty). After the wreck a part of the crew mutinied. When the captain with reinforcements returned some of the culprits were janged, others were dropped as convicts on the Australian mainland. So the Dutch sent the first criminals to Australia!!!.

The replica was built in 10 years, the original could be built within 6 months!

The "Zeven Provinciën" (Seven Provinces): 80+ gun Man of War, commisioned in 1665 (just in time for another war with the English). Served for almost 30 years, flagship of Michiel de Ruyter, one of the greatest naval commanders of all time... Among others used when we stole the English flagship from their naval yard at Chatham .
This again was the biggest type of warships built by the Republic at that time. Part of a naval rebuilding program after the first Anglo Dutch naval war, and supposedly (partially) financed with the remnants of the booty taken by Heyn in 1628 when he captured the complete Spanish Silverfleet (the smaller of the two). Booty then was an estimated FL 12,000,000.

To give you an idea, about how enormous booty that is, the "Zeven Provinciën" was part of a series of 24 capital ships ordered in 1664 (so built within a year), to which another 12 were added in 1666. These 24 ships cost a total of FL 3,000,000. Or, the operating cost for a full year of the complete Dutch fleet of 72 ships (in 1664) was estimated at FL 6,250,000.
That was a fleet with a size as big if not bigger then that of the English or the French... and in quality and firepower a multiple of what any other nation (apart from England and France) could muster at that time..

The Batavia has been finished, the "Zeven Provinciën" is being built at the Batavia werf (estimated completion date is 2013). And when finished, she will probably be a stunning sight, as she will include a boatload of painted and guilded carvings!!!

Batavia yard

Supposedly another ship is being built in Rotterdam.

IMHO the only things that beat these are the originals, being the Victory and the Vasa...

Hi guys!

Remember, this is an idea for a FUTURE campaign, not starting until MUCH later on this year, so there won't be any pressure for time...What say ye? ...and thanks for the trivia, Harm, really cool stuff, mate!

~Gunny

Just wondering if the campaign would be open to plastic sailing ships. I would be more inclined to sign up if they were allowed. I built one wood plank on frame kit and it took me three years to complete the hull. And that was a beginners kit! Of coarse it only got worked on for a few hours each month.....

Hello, mate!

I would like to have the campaign limited to wooden ship models only, but if there is a majority of modelers at Model Shipwrights that all agree on plastic, then so be it...honestly, one of my first ship kits was a plank on plank many, many, MANY years ago, and you just can't measure the level of satisfaction and accomplishment (as well as FUN!) that you can experience with a wooden model....and it doesn't have to be anything elaborate, mate!

~Gunny
:)

Hi Mark

I would love to see a Wooden Ship Campaign, but I would have to pass this one!
I am terrible working in wood and one thing I know I hate is rigging
But I would give my full support to this one - as usually do!

Skipper

Ahoy, Maties!

OK, I guess the general concensus is a no-go for a campaign/group build of this type, at this time...just a thought, my friends. I'll let the thread run through the weekend though, just to give it a bit more time, then if no further action, bury it for now. Thanks for your responses, and remember...Keep Modeling!!

~Gunny

As mentioned, wooden ship models can take years to finish, even if you work on them regularly...I know, my Cutty Sark is making slow, painfully slow progress.. . When I have some worthwhile progress to report I'll post a few more pics.
If you do start a wooden ship build, will those with a partialy finished ship be allowed to join in? In which case I would be happy to join.

Cheers
Henk

Sorry, my friend, but models already started in assembly are not qualified for campaign entry's, Henk...would like to see some more pics of your build though!

~Gunny

If I were to win a mega lottery I would have several of those large wooden sailing ships ...all commissioned. I built a plastic version of the USS Costitution once and while it was beautiful, It took several (5 as I recall) months and this was back when I could completely build a 48th scale tank or airplane including paint, decaling in 4 days. Building one from wood is 1) out of my budget and 2) much too time consuming. which would take me away from anything else. I'll pass on this one

Seems to be the general reaction so far...but that's ok, mates! Maybe in the future!?

~Gunny

This is something i am interested in as i already have several under way my Abatros is almost finished all wood should post new picks soon, some solid hull wooden ships can b purchased for well under $100 thats less than some of the 1/350 plastic kits out now and some of the solid hull kits can be finished in well under a years time if i can do it so can you guys. I would consider maybe letting people who have started these builds in on a campaign this way you will get enough interest to start the campaign but its up to you, if you get it started i have a few in my stash ready to go.

I like the concept Mark, but I also agree with Henk on the timeline. However, what's wrong with the same subject matter but in plastic? Heller and Aixfix has a nice line of masted ships. Not to mention the available Viking ships, Roman galleys and so on.

Just another bone to toss out there.

Steve

Hey, Steve!

I can definitely relate on the timeline, Bro, but that would have to be taken into consideration when Jim Lewis would be thinking about the approval of such a group build....it would have to be a lengthy one, more than our 1 year campaigns of late. But of course, anyone who has built a wooden ship (even the light subjects) knows what I'm talking about!
It would be more of a group build, I guess, because of the length, and most definitely an education for all involved...maybe something to consider in the future.
I really don't have a problem either with the same type of build but in plastic, mate, the subject was mentioned earlier on in the thread but that idea didn't generate much discussion either...I'd LOVE to bring it up again though, see what y'all think about that!
So what do you say, maties? Would you be interested in a group build involving subjects of the old style? Let's kick the thought around a bit, and like Mr. Arthur said, there's a good selection of these beauties available in a plastic form...(and we will include about a years allotment of time for rigging! :-) )
~Gunny

I am up for this be it in plastic or wood, i will still be doing mine in wood if thats okay, i will visit modelexpo-online they have several small kits for about $50 and they look really good. Just let me know i am all for it.

Interrupt from the salty ( ) Campaign Manager...

If you all decide on a Group Build style of activity - you don't need anyone's approval - least alone mine! I will always support and encourage model building activities on all sites in the Network.

Group Builds are setup and managed by the members participating in them - so you all can decide what, who, when, where, why and how you want to run it. No need for the defining parameters that make up Campaigns - start and end dates, rules, Ribbons, etc... You all decide what you're gonna do - and then you do it!

Gunnie

And there you have it.

I like the addition of the plastic kits for the sake of those who one, have never built a wooden ship (like me) and two, it allows those with budget concerns to participate. Most of all, it adds diversity to the group and will perhaps attract newcomers. I've always wanted to try a rigged ship, but have not had the courage nor an idea of who could provide some guidance as i went along...this could bring those folks out of the woodwork. Lastly, the year long campaign allows for those who have tight schedules enough wiggle room to participate and perhaps finish the project. Obviously the year long campaign hasn't been a problem for anyone yet...and as for me, I appreciate them.

On a personal note, I also like the addition of the civilian forum, this gives me an excuse to build my Savannah, Titanic ...and when I can afford it and get it purchased...The Fitz.

Steve i to agree with the idea for civilian ships and boats in plastic that would get a lot more people interested, on a side note although i have only completed one wooden ship and am about to finish my second in a couple of weeks if anybody has any questions please ask if i can help i will and i can make a few suggestions on some simple and inexpensive wooden kits there are several out their in the $45 to $95 range and not just civilian kits either.

I think.... please watch out because my thinking is some what dangerous, and off kilter sometimes.... But limiting it to just wooden, would leave out more than it would attract, simply due to 1. cost, 2. difficulty, 3. work place. 1. Not everyone can afford a quality wooden ship kit. Of course there are plenty of high cost plastic kit, but there are more affordable lower priced plastic kits, that can be built into really impressive sailing ships. 2. Many have never tried a wooden kit, even the simpler pre-shaped solid hulls still require considerable work, using tools the average plastic model may not own. Having to go out and buy these just adds to the cost. 3. Some may not even have a work place/shop where they can do the amount of sanding, plaining, and chiseling needed to final shape a pre-shaped hardwood hull. Although the fun of creating new words as you split your bulwarks, as you thin them, is often a rewarding experience. I won't even go into the fun of trying to properly seal even a cheap-ass balsa hull kit.

Either way plastic or wood i am in and yes i agree with Dave wood can be a lot more work and its not for everyone.

Then there we have it, indeed!
BUT, personally, I just can't handle one more project at the moment, mates, but will be able to soon!
I guess that we can start the preliminary's of a group build such as this,so lets discuss what we would like to have in the build, our focus, rules and reg's, time frame, etc. We can start a member listing in a particular thread and continue to add and edit as we go...I'm very excited about a build such as this, so let's talk about it!
~Gunny

Ok, I'll throw this out as a possible parameter. All eras from Ancient such as a Roman Galley and the like to turn of the 19th-20th centuries where sails were still employed on some vessels. Time frame for build, one year. This gives slow builders the time they need and those who are currently engaged in campaigns enough time to still jump in. Plus, it goes along nicely with the theme of Oars and Sails indicated by the forum. The kits are not limited to wood and can be plastic or mixed media if those type of kits are available. This would make the group build all inclusive and would attract more people and diversify the build. IMHO.

And there you have...my two bits worth.