Tom(TDK)
If you haven't already, have a look at this link

http://www.unithistories.com/units_british/RN_MTBs.html#MTB_Boats

It covers quite a few boats and flottilas.

TomR

Glad I could help, you've provided me with a lot of detail that could be added and the inspiration to add it. Al

Tom,
I found your photo of the rocket (snowflake?) launcher in the IWM collections. It's dated 1944 so I'd consider the .303 tube mount a later war modification.
If you find photo A4251 in the IWM site it shows a single Lewis gun being re-loaded on a simple 'scaffold pole' type mount (as shown earlier in the 'trot' photo I posted.
I wonder if the 'scaffold pole' mounts were discarded when a 20mm was fitted forward and moved aft to sit over the tubes?
So it would depend on what time your going the depict your boat.
TomR

Looking at pictures and Lamberts drawings I don't think there is much rhyme or reason to the exact fit of light weapons on these boats Tom. More a case of mounting what was available.

The pintle mounts inboard of the torpedo tubes are a modification mentioned in Allied Torpedo Boats and illustrated in one of the drawings.

I've found two pictures of MTB238, in the first she mounting a VGO on a pintle each side of the wheelhouse...



...in the next, much later in her service, she has grenade launchers on saddle-mounts forward on the torpedo tubes and what look like flare launchers further aft on smaller saddle-mounts, by this time she's also sporting a 20mm Oerlikon forward of the wheelhouse and a well weathered camo finish!



Popes book, Flag 4, mentions that when fighting in close the norm was for the crew to fire off everything at hand at the enemy, the CO even blazing away with his service revolver!

HTH.

Les,
I think they'd have to move the MGs when the Oerlikon was shipped or they'd just be in the way and restrict each others firing arcs.
I agree about them blazing off with everything. I wouldn't be suprised if some enterprising crews didn't 'acquire' some extra light MGs (Bren's perhaps) whenever possible but I've never heard of grenade launchers in the WW2 period. Could they be illuminating (I think the generic name was 'Snowflake') rocket launchers forward and MG mounts further aft as in Tom(TDK)'s photo of 204?
TomR

You're right Tom, 2" flare projectors, not grenade launchers, my bad...

Now since we are on the subject of Flare projectors,i've been working on a pair.

They are not finnished but i'm almost there.
Then i need to figure out how the .303 was fixed to the TT.Some kind of tripod i think.
I started the paint scheme.

TDK

Because it is far easier to cut the hatches in half and get a good finish than it is to try putting the two halves in position and have them sit properly if you want the hatches closed...

[quoteThen i need to figure out how the .303 was fixed to the TT.Some kind of tripod i think.
[/quote]

There is a photo of a TT tripod on MTB69 on page 89 of ALLIED TORPEDO BOATS. It's a bit hard to see the attachment, but I think it was like this:


It looks like the bottoms of the legs were flattened and a hole drilled through. Then, the legs were bolted to the flanges on the TT.

Al Ross

Al,that is awesome,thanks

TDK

So finaly i got the projectors and the Vickers .303 mount finished.
Next up is the radar array,extra mast with so antenna stuff on it.
In the meatime i'll be spraying some of the parts in 3 colours.
Lot of taping off to do.
Thanks to all for the help in finding the answers to my many questions.
TDK

Hello Tom, those flare launchers are awesome, that is some impressive scratch-building. Al

Hi Tom,

Really excellent work.

Alan

When i checked the photo of the 204 i noticed that the exhausts are different from the model.After think hard if i wanted to tackle this i diceided i need to .If i don't it will haunt me even if nobody else notices it.So i took the originals of the hull ,that went pretty well.and now i have 3 new ones.

I also did some work on the second mast with the radar mirror(that's what they call it )

So now i need to respray the hull after glueing the new parts to it.

Tom

Tom,
A radar reflector is what it'scalled.
would that be a common addition if modeling a later (1943+) boat do you think?
What are you going to use to rig your boat?

TomR

Hi Tom,

Along all the photo 's there are in the books and on the net ,i found 3 with the radar mirror.
2 on the opposite side of the main mast and 1 it being on the stern of the boats.
The 2 are both from the 204 and with the oerlikon on the bow
The other one is probably earlier since there is no oerlikon visible.
http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=101033442
For the rigging i'll use thread leftover from a project i scuttled (constitution)
And hope it will stay taut.

TDK

This build is going to be disgustingly brilliant....and this thread has thrown up so much that I didn't know, or was wrong about. Keep up the great work!
F

I'd be interested if anyone can shed light on what types of radar were fitted to the MTB/MGB fleet.
I've always thought it was along the lines of US (PT boat style, SC?) or centimetric types.
That mast and array your scratching...no idea.
Your building the mast sqare(ish) so do you think it could only transmit on a fixed bearing (i.e. ahead of the boat)?

Tom,
A radar reflector is what it'scalled. [quote]

Your building the mast sqare(ish) so do you think it could only transmit on a fixed bearing (i.e. ahead of the boat)? [qoute]


The fact that it is called a radar 'reflector' would seem to mean to me that it doesn't transmit at all. Modern F-117 Stealth aircraft use a removable item that increases their radar reflection in non-combat situations. To make it easier to see them on air traffic control radars. Could this be serving the same purpose, maybe to avoid being run down at night by a larger vessel? Al

The Germans developed several different radar detectors.
Perhaps this is a type of that, although I'm not sure the Allies delved into this side of things too much.
Could be a range only radar aerial,
Could be part of a deep fat fryer that got caught there after an explosion in a nearby chip shop
A clue I have not got.
TomR

Edit:

TDK, in the link showing the chip pan thingie, there's no 20mm visible forward hinting that the 'thingie' was a fairly early war addition.

My curiosity is now peeked. I will delve.
TomR

Hi TomR,
Yes that's what i wrote ,and it's on the stern.
But this one has it where i'm planning it.
http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=120004969
The square mast is just like the main on ,so it could be that it was easily available. (you never know where you find the fish&chips shops)
I found this link about the different radars:
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_Radar.htm

TDK

So i have been painting and working on some parts like the carly float.

The turret has got a grey blast,i'm not sure if i will do the topside of the ring in deck blue or leave it grey.Still need to put the hydraulics in and the ammo


The extra radar mast is also taking shape.
TDK

It looks great Tom. There sure wasn't a lot of room for the gunner in there. Al

Hi Tom,

Really excellent work, you're setting the standard high for those who follow.

Cheers

Al

Gentlemen thank you for the kind words.But Al's is looking very good to.
Yes ,i wonderd about the space for the gunner.
It will be hard to cock the guns from that cramped space.
I have a first impression of the colour scheme.


Still need to build the bandstand and the splintermatresses.
Do any of you have an idea how to make them without useing a whole lot of magic sculp or milliput ?
TDK