Came across this on another site.
http://www.creativemodels.net/product_info.php?products_id=15264
Kit No ITA5610 due for release in Dec 2010, make a nice start to next year and looks like it might actually happen, which will be great.
Al
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Italeri 1/35 Vosper MTB
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 27, 2010 - 03:01 AM UTC
Hi Guys,
Came across this on another site.
http://www.creativemodels.net/product_info.php?products_id=15264
Kit No ITA5610 due for release in Dec 2010, make a nice start to next year and looks like it might actually happen, which will be great.
Al
Came across this on another site.
http://www.creativemodels.net/product_info.php?products_id=15264
Kit No ITA5610 due for release in Dec 2010, make a nice start to next year and looks like it might actually happen, which will be great.
Al
Gremlin56
Joined: October 30, 2005
KitMaker: 3,897 posts
Model Shipwrights: 3,301 posts
KitMaker: 3,897 posts
Model Shipwrights: 3,301 posts
Posted: Monday, September 27, 2010 - 06:13 AM UTC
Curiouser and curiouser,
I thought the Italian MTB was due for release first. It would be excellent if they could get the Vosper out, would probably make this a dreadfully expensive Christmas what with the Independence and the Arizona though. Might have to sell the children...............................
cheers,
Julian
I thought the Italian MTB was due for release first. It would be excellent if they could get the Vosper out, would probably make this a dreadfully expensive Christmas what with the Independence and the Arizona though. Might have to sell the children...............................
cheers,
Julian
allycat
Joined: October 03, 2004
KitMaker: 942 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 27, 2010 - 06:48 AM UTC
Selling my children to make a hole in my 'styrene wish list sounds like an option. But I think I'd have trouble finding a buyer 
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 05:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Selling my children to make a hole in my 'styrene wish list sounds like an option. But I think I'd have trouble finding a buyer
Hi guys,
Could anyone recommend the Osprey British Motor Torpedo Boat 1939 - 45. I picked up it's sister on the MGBs which for me was an interesting read.
Not knowing much about the Vosper are there opportunities for an MGB there or variations on the finish?
Thanks
Al
alross2
Joined: May 18, 2006
KitMaker: 317 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 07:26 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Could anyone recommend the Osprey British Motor Torpedo Boat 1939 - 45. I picked up it's sister on the MGBs which for me was an interesting read.
Not knowing much about the Vosper are there opportunities for an MGB there or variations on the finish?
Thanks
Al
No, to both questions. Pictorially, you'd be far better served by Squadron's VOSPERS IN ACTION by Garth Connelly; drawing-wise, John Lambert and my ALLIED COASTAL FORCES OF WWII, volume 2. John covers the Vospers in intricate detail in the latter, which you could easily get through interlibrary loan.
Al Ross
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 02:17 AM UTC
Hi Al,
Many thanks, I see Hannant's has it listed so something nice to look forward to for Christmas/the New Year.
Cheers
Al
Many thanks, I see Hannant's has it listed so something nice to look forward to for Christmas/the New Year.
Cheers
Al
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,919 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 11:43 PM UTC
Hi Al,
This is a picture of the Italeri Box Art.(?)
It looks like MTB 73 from page 11 of the Squadron Signal Publication a 1940s MTB. (yes, the publication arrived )
On page 10 of said publication it mentioned that a 20mm Oerlikon was mounted on the foredeck in the latter part of the war on the 1940s boats.
You wouldn't have a pictuer of same as I do have an AA 20mm to find a home for!
Also some Guns that might be of use are the recently released .303 Lewis Guns from Rersicast. Reviewed here:
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/review/5528
I did mentioned to Graham that a twin mount would be a useful addition to the set for AA defence!!
I also managed to track down a reasonably priced copy of ALLIED COASTAL FORCES OF WWII, volume 2, but am awaiting confirmation of delivery. This Volume would I assume be very handy for the ELCO boat too?
The picture that really rocks my boat, parden the pun, is the one on page 3, but I'm not sure where you might get twin 20mms or if it is a 1940 boat? Looking again it must be one of the American builds as it has no port holes.
Thanks again.
Al
This is a picture of the Italeri Box Art.(?)
It looks like MTB 73 from page 11 of the Squadron Signal Publication a 1940s MTB. (yes,
the publication arrived )On page 10 of said publication it mentioned that a 20mm Oerlikon was mounted on the foredeck in the latter part of the war on the 1940s boats.
You wouldn't have a pictuer of same as I do have an AA 20mm to find a home for!
Also some Guns that might be of use are the recently released .303 Lewis Guns from Rersicast. Reviewed here:
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/review/5528
I did mentioned to Graham that a twin mount would be a useful addition to the set for AA defence!!
I also managed to track down a reasonably priced copy of ALLIED COASTAL FORCES OF WWII, volume 2, but am awaiting confirmation of delivery. This Volume would I assume be very handy for the ELCO boat too?
The picture that really rocks my boat, parden the pun, is the one on page 3, but I'm not sure where you might get twin 20mms or if it is a 1940 boat? Looking again it must be one of the American builds as it has no port holes.
Thanks again.
Al
alross2
Joined: May 18, 2006
KitMaker: 317 posts
Model Shipwrights: 308 posts
Posted: Friday, October 01, 2010 - 01:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Al,
It looks like MTB 73 from page 11 of the Squadron Signal Publication a 1940s MTB. (yes,
On page 10 of said publication it mentioned that a 20mm Oerlikon was mounted on the foredeck in the latter part of the war on the 1940s boats.
You wouldn't have a pictuer of same as I do have an AA 20mm to find a home for!
Al
I'll look when I get home tonight. I do know that MTB 234, Peter Dicken's boat, which is the same group as MTB 73, had a single 20mm mounted forward. I have at least one photo of her in a trot, but don't remember whether the gun was mounted then or not. I corresponded with him thirty-odd years ago and he filled me in on a lot of good "skinny".
Al Ross
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
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Posted: Friday, October 01, 2010 - 01:49 AM UTC
Thanks
Al
Al
alross2
Joined: May 18, 2006
KitMaker: 317 posts
Model Shipwrights: 308 posts
Posted: Friday, October 01, 2010 - 11:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Al,
The picture that really rocks my boat, parden the pun, is the one on page 3, but I'm not sure where you might get twin 20mms or if it is a 1940 boat? Looking again it must be one of the American builds as it has no port holes.
Al
That is indeed one of the US built boats. Here are some shots of 224 and 234 with the 20mm forward:
MTB 234 is the boat with the red arrow pointing to the 20mm.
These photos are from A.J.D. North's Royal Naval Coastal Forces 1939-1945.
Al
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
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Posted: Friday, October 01, 2010 - 09:20 PM UTC
Hi Al,
Many thanks for the excellent pics and the additional reference. If I've read my data correctly 224 was a 1941 British Built boat. The combination of 20mm Oerlikon and 0.5 inch Vickers twin mount gives the boat a nicer balance.
Was there a date/location associated to the pictures by any chance?
Thanks again, I shall continue reading and then wait to see what actually gets produced, but this one looks like it might be a lot of fun.
If Italeria run as per the last set of boats then some British Crew might come along too. Perhaps Pete Morton will pick up on the release and add a few additional Sailors to the Wee Friends range!
Thanks again.
Al
Many thanks for the excellent pics and the additional reference. If I've read my data correctly 224 was a 1941 British Built boat. The combination of 20mm Oerlikon and 0.5 inch Vickers twin mount gives the boat a nicer balance.
Was there a date/location associated to the pictures by any chance?
Thanks again, I shall continue reading and then wait to see what actually gets produced, but this one looks like it might be a lot of fun.
If Italeria run as per the last set of boats then some British Crew might come along too. Perhaps Pete Morton will pick up on the release and add a few additional Sailors to the Wee Friends range!
Thanks again.
Al
alross2
Joined: May 18, 2006
KitMaker: 317 posts
Model Shipwrights: 308 posts
Posted: Friday, October 01, 2010 - 09:46 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Was there a date/location associated to the pictures by any chance?
Top to bottom:
IWM 25863 - OCT 1944
IWM A25855 - OCT 1944
IWM 20516 - APR 1945
Al
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
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Posted: Friday, October 01, 2010 - 09:51 PM UTC
Thanks Al, I'll have a look over on IWM.
Al
Al
allycat
Joined: October 03, 2004
KitMaker: 942 posts
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Posted: Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 10:39 PM UTC
Alan,
I wonder if the Resicast Lewis gun set would be appropriate for the RN.
Although some sources state the guns had to be used with cooling sleeves there's an awful lot of evidence that they were removed.
Maybe some did and some didn't. Another pictorial reference ceock I suppose.
Tom
P.S.
Anyone wanna buy a kid?
I wonder if the Resicast Lewis gun set would be appropriate for the RN.
Although some sources state the guns had to be used with cooling sleeves there's an awful lot of evidence that they were removed.
Maybe some did and some didn't. Another pictorial reference ceock I suppose.
Tom
P.S.
Anyone wanna buy a kid?
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,919 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 01:02 AM UTC
Hi Tom,
I've looked at the references I have so far and the jacketed type were common on early boats.. I think there is a possibility of confusion here the Vickers K Gun is often referred to a a Lewis gun but it was a different beast as far as I know.
The jacketed type appear to have been favoured on the pintals mounted either side of the wheelhouse, mounted as twin guns. However, there is a picture of a quad of jacked Lewis Guns:
Here's a twin set mounted fore and aft;
And here on the pintals beside the wheel house a single gun
You would just have to make the cross mount for a twin pair.
There are two good pictures on page 34 of the Squadron Publication, showing twin pintle mount Lewis Guns either side of the wheel house and twin mounted Vickers K guns mounted on a pintle atop the aft torpedo tube, so lots of possibilities.
Later boats also had the 40mm Bofors mounted aft in place of the .5 inch Vickers guns in the tub shown below
Page 37 also shows twin 20mm aft.
The combination Al showed of the 20mm fore and .5 inch tub aft works for me.
Al
I've looked at the references I have so far and the jacketed type were common on early boats.. I think there is a possibility of confusion here the Vickers K Gun is often referred to a a Lewis gun but it was a different beast as far as I know.
The jacketed type appear to have been favoured on the pintals mounted either side of the wheelhouse, mounted as twin guns. However, there is a picture of a quad of jacked Lewis Guns:
Here's a twin set mounted fore and aft;
And here on the pintals beside the wheel house a single gun
You would just have to make the cross mount for a twin pair.
There are two good pictures on page 34 of the Squadron Publication, showing twin pintle mount Lewis Guns either side of the wheel house and twin mounted Vickers K guns mounted on a pintle atop the aft torpedo tube, so lots of possibilities.
Later boats also had the 40mm Bofors mounted aft in place of the .5 inch Vickers guns in the tub shown below
Page 37 also shows twin 20mm aft.
The combination Al showed of the 20mm fore and .5 inch tub aft works for me.
Al
allycat
Joined: October 03, 2004
KitMaker: 942 posts
Model Shipwrights: 278 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 01:41 AM UTC
Alan
Your right the Vickers K is very similar. Have I seen twin K guns in one of the SAS jeep (maybe the Tamiya or Italeri) kits?
Also the .50 cal tubs look VERY similar to the Staghound AA turret. I know the Stag's turret was a Frazier-Nash type that was designed for the RN Coastal forces' boats but didn't know what date (or even if) it was used.
In Al's second pic of MTB 224 with 244 in the background, is there a twin 20mm visible abaft the bridge instead of the .50 mount? 244 looks to have a 20mm mount in that position to, both with a US type shield
~TTFN
Tom
still with unsold child
Your right the Vickers K is very similar. Have I seen twin K guns in one of the SAS jeep (maybe the Tamiya or Italeri) kits?
Also the .50 cal tubs look VERY similar to the Staghound AA turret. I know the Stag's turret was a Frazier-Nash type that was designed for the RN Coastal forces' boats but didn't know what date (or even if) it was used.
In Al's second pic of MTB 224 with 244 in the background, is there a twin 20mm visible abaft the bridge instead of the .50 mount? 244 looks to have a 20mm mount in that position to, both with a US type shield
~TTFN
Tom
still with unsold child
allycat
Joined: October 03, 2004
KitMaker: 942 posts
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Posted: Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 01:51 AM UTC
Alan,
just re-reading your post.
Are you sure about the Bofors. I know some of the later boats used a 2pdr forward and the bigger Fairmile 'dog' boats used 6pdrs (I have the book by L. C. Reynolds and thoroughly recommend it) but only the US PT Boats used the Bofors aft.
Tom
Bargain basement prices available on kids
just re-reading your post.
Are you sure about the Bofors. I know some of the later boats used a 2pdr forward and the bigger Fairmile 'dog' boats used 6pdrs (I have the book by L. C. Reynolds and thoroughly recommend it) but only the US PT Boats used the Bofors aft.
Tom
Bargain basement prices available on kids
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
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Posted: Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 01:51 AM UTC
Hi Tom,
Yes, , I think that's a twin 20mm aft, I have seen pictuers of that arrangement too. Page 3 of the Squadron book has a cracking picture of just such an arrangement, but on a US built boat although I believe they were also mounted on th British boats albeit later in the war.
Can't say about the tubs, not enough knowledge.
Hi Tom,
On the second post yes, page 37 clearly shows a Bofors on an MTB in the Med, late war.
Al
Yes, , I think that's a twin 20mm aft, I have seen pictuers of that arrangement too. Page 3 of the Squadron book has a cracking picture of just such an arrangement, but on a US built boat although I believe they were also mounted on th British boats albeit later in the war.
Can't say about the tubs, not enough knowledge.
Hi Tom,
On the second post yes, page 37 clearly shows a Bofors on an MTB in the Med, late war.
Al
allycat
Joined: October 03, 2004
KitMaker: 942 posts
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Posted: Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 02:02 AM UTC
Thanks for the clarification Alan.
might I ask what book you have. 'cos I want
Tom
might I ask what book you have. 'cos I want
Tom
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
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Posted: Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 02:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Alan,
just re-reading your post.
Are you sure about the Bofors. I know some of the later boats used a 2pdr forward and the bigger Fairmile 'dog' boats used 6pdrs (I have the book by L. C. Reynolds and thoroughly recommend it) but only the US PT Boats used the Bofors aft.
Tom
Bargain basement prices available on kids
Looks like a Bofors to me?
The 2pdr Vickers QF Mk VIII was retrofitted into some of the Vosper 1940 boats late in the war. Similiarly the 6pdr QF Mk IIA was a late war addition.
The Bofors was mounted in the American Built Boats aft of the wheelhouse on MTBs 396 to 411.
The 2pdr, Bofors and 6pdr are all late war additions.
The twin 20mm were added during the lattter half of the war, so it's check you references here.
Al
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
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Posted: Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 02:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks for the clarification Alan.
might I ask what book you have. 'cos I want
Tom
Hi Tom,
I got the Squadron Signal Vosper MTB in action booklet - Warship No 13 that Al Ross recommended. Not too expensive but has a lot of useful data.
Al
allycat
Joined: October 03, 2004
KitMaker: 942 posts
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Posted: Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 03:50 AM UTC
Yep, That's a Bofors allright.
Ta very much for the book info
Tom
Child removed from sale due to lack of interest
Ta very much for the book info
Tom
Child removed from sale due to lack of interest
alross2
Joined: May 18, 2006
KitMaker: 317 posts
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Posted: Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 04:37 AM UTC
[quote Looks like a Bofors to me?
The 2pdr Vickers QF Mk VIII was retrofitted into some of the Vosper 1940 boats late in the war. Similiarly the 6pdr QF Mk IIA was a late war addition.
The Bofors was mounted in the American Built Boats aft of the wheelhouse on MTBs 396 to 411.
The 2pdr, Bofors and 6pdr are all late war additions.
The twin 20mm were added during the lattter half of the war, so it's check you references here.
Al[/quote]
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrr, I'm going to have ye all flogged
In the photos of the Lewis guns, the top quad mount is on a BPB 60'3" MTB; the next is on a Thornycroft CMB/MTB; the third on a 70' Vosper. The standard twin .5" mount in the tub is a Vickers MKV.
I think you will find that neither a 40mm Bofors nor a 2pdr was ever fitted to a 70'/72'6" Vosper. The 73' Vospers mounted either a twin 20mm or a 6pdr forward and, post-War at least one had the 4.5" CF gun forward. The US built boats had a twin 20mm in place of the Vickers MKV.
A number of these boats went to the Italians post-War, who armed them variously with 20mm/65 Bredas and, in at least for a time, a quad 20mm Flakfierling
This image from I MAS E LE MOTOSILURANTI ITALIANE.
Al Ross
The 2pdr Vickers QF Mk VIII was retrofitted into some of the Vosper 1940 boats late in the war. Similiarly the 6pdr QF Mk IIA was a late war addition.
The Bofors was mounted in the American Built Boats aft of the wheelhouse on MTBs 396 to 411.
The 2pdr, Bofors and 6pdr are all late war additions.
The twin 20mm were added during the lattter half of the war, so it's check you references here.
Al[/quote]
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrr, I'm going to have ye all flogged
In the photos of the Lewis guns, the top quad mount is on a BPB 60'3" MTB; the next is on a Thornycroft CMB/MTB; the third on a 70' Vosper. The standard twin .5" mount in the tub is a Vickers MKV. I think you will find that neither a 40mm Bofors nor a 2pdr was ever fitted to a 70'/72'6" Vosper. The 73' Vospers mounted either a twin 20mm or a 6pdr forward and, post-War at least one had the 4.5" CF gun forward. The US built boats had a twin 20mm in place of the Vickers MKV.
A number of these boats went to the Italians post-War, who armed them variously with 20mm/65 Bredas and, in at least for a time, a quad 20mm Flakfierling
This image from I MAS E LE MOTOSILURANTI ITALIANE.Al Ross
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
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Posted: Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 06:20 AM UTC
Hi Al,
Flogging accepted
The heavy weapons are mentioned as late war additions probably early 45 so not a time period I'm interested in. However page 37 shows a 40mm Bofors fitted to an unspecisied boat in the Med. This is probably a 73ft boat but it does mention retro fitting starting in late 44, with some of the 1940 boats being up gunned.
Also relaise that the 1943 boats were 73ft in length, the 1942 boats 70ft in length, 1941 boats 72.5 ft in length and the1940 boats 70ft in length.
I couldn't reporduce the references in the book so used the pics to show different Lewis gun arrangements, sometime single, sometimes twin. Also added to the later boats was a band stand around the forward 20mm, so as always it's down to time period and reference pics. but there seems to be room for manouver regarding the armament as it looks like the Italeri kit will have the aft tub with .5 inch vickers.
Just gathering infomration and thinking on possibilities at the moment but your pics above should work OK with what I have in mind as the indication is the Italeri kit will be a 70ft boat of 1940s origin.
Thanks again. Ah, the pain of learning
Al
Flogging accepted
The heavy weapons are mentioned as late war additions probably early 45 so not a time period I'm interested in. However page 37 shows a 40mm Bofors fitted to an unspecisied boat in the Med. This is probably a 73ft boat but it does mention retro fitting starting in late 44, with some of the 1940 boats being up gunned.
Also relaise that the 1943 boats were 73ft in length, the 1942 boats 70ft in length, 1941 boats 72.5 ft in length and the1940 boats 70ft in length.
I couldn't reporduce the references in the book so used the pics to show different Lewis gun arrangements, sometime single, sometimes twin. Also added to the later boats was a band stand around the forward 20mm, so as always it's down to time period and reference pics. but there seems to be room for manouver regarding the armament as it looks like the Italeri kit will have the aft tub with .5 inch vickers.
Just gathering infomration and thinking on possibilities at the moment but your pics above should work OK with what I have in mind as the indication is the Italeri kit will be a 70ft boat of 1940s origin.
Thanks again. Ah, the pain of learning
Al
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,919 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 07:42 AM UTC
Hu Guys,
firstly thanks for all your help.
MBT 234 whilst having the layout I was looking for is I believe a 1941 boat and as such would be 72.5 ft in length.
However,
MBT353 would I believe be a Vosper built MBT in 1942 making her a 70ft boat and this one also has a 20mm being added to the foredeck in March 44. Interestingly a band stand has also been added complete with padded mats which I assume was part of the D Day preparations, so this might give me a known example to build on which should be the correct length.
I shall continue looking and await the arrival of the kti to see what's actually in the box.
Cheers
Al
firstly thanks for all your help.
MBT 234 whilst having the layout I was looking for is I believe a 1941 boat and as such would be 72.5 ft in length.
However,
MBT353 would I believe be a Vosper built MBT in 1942 making her a 70ft boat and this one also has a 20mm being added to the foredeck in March 44. Interestingly a band stand has also been added complete with padded mats which I assume was part of the D Day preparations, so this might give me a known example to build on which should be the correct length.
I shall continue looking and await the arrival of the kti to see what's actually in the box.
Cheers
Al
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