Viseu, Portugal
Joined: November 06, 2011
KitMaker: 51 posts
Model Shipwrights: 50 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2011 - 05:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Great photo Fraser, I am really liking the idea of mounting a Breda more and more. In the photo there appears to be some kind of railing forward of the gun, could it be a depression rail? The hull numbers appear to have a second 'shadow' color, it seems to me it could possibly be red. I hate it when a picture answers one question and raises two more! 
Al
I think you're right about a depression rail. As to the drop shadow or outline on the number......no idea. Shame there wasn't more colour film about eh?
I also remember reading something on the lines of torpedo tubes being removed and more Bredas installed to make a Vosper gunboat....
F
Maine, United States
Joined: May 18, 2006
KitMaker: 317 posts
Model Shipwrights: 308 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2011 - 10:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Do we know the correct colours for MTB 77 and 84?
As pictured, MTB77 appears to be in overall 507C or G45, a light gray color, while MTB 84 displays the Standard Admiralty Light scheme of white, G45 (light gray), and B15 (dark blue gray). These colors are available from WEM.
Here's a color rendering of the latter scheme from C.B. 3098 THE CAMOUFLAGE OF SHIPS AT SEA 1943, a facsimile of which is also available from WEM.
Al Ross
Viseu, Portugal
Joined: November 06, 2011
KitMaker: 51 posts
Model Shipwrights: 50 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2011 - 11:28 PM UTC
Thinking about guns on Vospers...A. does anyone do a 1/72nd Breda? and B. The painting of mine that I posted of a Vosper with a single Oerlikon for'ard and a dual amidships depicts an American made Vosper. They came like that. Haven't found a pic of a Brit built Vosper with a twin mounting - yet.
F
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,919 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2011 - 11:52 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Ummmm, just looked up Mtb 77. She was based at Malta. and in the pic I found on the IWM site it looks like she might just have a 'liberated' Breda gun on board. I gather this was fairly common in the Medi. i need to look at some more reference....(hope this link works, if not, I'll upload it to my photobucket thingie...
THE ROYAL NAVY DURING THE SECOND WORLD WAR© IWM (A 14545)
Hi Al,
Thanks for the info. Both the others have the twin .303 Lewis guns, Is it my eyes or are the mounts for the Lewis guns still on MTB 77?
Cheers
Al
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Winston Spencer Churchill
Viseu, Portugal
Joined: November 06, 2011
KitMaker: 51 posts
Model Shipwrights: 50 posts
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 - 03:24 AM UTC
The Vospers generally kept their gun tubs with the twin .5 Vickers and also the Vickers 'GO' guns on the tubes. The other two boats arre probably 77ft. Elcos with gun tubs that would either have Vickers .5s or 50cal. Brownings. This is all detailed in John Lambert's "Allied Coastal Forces Volume II"
F
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,919 posts
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 - 04:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thinking about guns on Vospers...A. does anyone do a 1/72nd Breda? and B. The painting of mine that I posted of a Vosper with a single Oerlikon for'ard and a dual amidships depicts an American made Vosper. They came like that. Haven't found a pic of a Brit built Vosper with a twin mounting - yet.
F
Hi Frazer,
See Al Ross's post above on MTB 224 built under contract by McLean at Renfrew which depicts the boat in 1944 with twin 20mm on the stern and a single 20mm on the bow. As far as I know these had the same basic spec.
Al
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Winston Spencer Churchill
Viseu, Portugal
Joined: November 06, 2011
KitMaker: 51 posts
Model Shipwrights: 50 posts
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 - 07:59 AM UTC
Yeah, I just had a look in Lambert's book - altered post '43 to the twin Oerlikon configuration. Fortunately the platforms for the guns are quite 'easily´ scratchbuilt...
England - North East, United Kingdom
Joined: October 03, 2004
KitMaker: 942 posts
Model Shipwrights: 278 posts
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 - 08:39 AM UTC
Al Ross,
You posted a picture of boat number 224 dated Oct 44 US built; port side view)
Is the twin Oerlikon mount covered over? Or is the light covered thing (I'll describe it as a very very big ammo drum - which it obviously couldn't be) something on the shore behind the boat. I can make out part of the shield, the gun barrels and then this big 'thing' on top of the receiver assembly.
Probably an east expanation..but it's bugging me
Tom
New York, United States
Joined: January 21, 2008
KitMaker: 2,531 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,244 posts
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 - 09:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Al Ross,
You posted a picture of boat number 224 dated Oct 44 US built; port side view)
Is the twin Oerlikon mount covered over? Or is the light covered thing (I'll describe it as a very very big ammo drum - which it obviously couldn't be) something on the shore behind the boat. I can make out part of the shield, the gun barrels and then this big 'thing' on top of the receiver assembly.
Probably an east expanation..but it's bugging me
Tom
Hello Tom, I had a look at the photo in question and the guns aren't covered. If you look again you can see both barrels and the two side by side ammo drums for the twin 20mms. There is a crewman in a white jersey (jumper?) standing just in front of the gun mount partially obscuring it. You can also just make out the spent shell bag hanging below the guns visible just behind his legs.
Al
Maine, United States
Joined: May 18, 2006
KitMaker: 317 posts
Model Shipwrights: 308 posts
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 - 09:45 AM UTC
A terrible image. but in this enlargement, ypu can see the sailor Al Bubnis mentions.
224 was a British-built boat - McLean at Renfrew. 244 aft of 224 also has the twin 20mm aft and was built by Vosper
Al Ross
Maine, United States
Joined: May 18, 2006
KitMaker: 317 posts
Model Shipwrights: 308 posts
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 - 09:50 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The Vospers generally kept their gun tubs with the twin .5 Vickers and also the Vickers 'GO' guns on the tubes. The other two boats arre probably 77ft. Elcos with gun tubs that would either have Vickers .5s or 50cal. Brownings. This is all detailed in John Lambert's "Allied Coastal Forces Volume II"
F
The outer boat, MTB 313 is a 77' ELCO and has a Vickers MK5 turret on the centerline. The inboard boat (can only make out the first two numbers 26_) is a 70' ELCO and has two twin .50 Brownings in the DeWandre turrets from which the domes have been removed.
Al Ross
Viseu, Portugal
Joined: November 06, 2011
KitMaker: 51 posts
Model Shipwrights: 50 posts
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 - 10:18 AM UTC
Wouldn't it be nice to have a 77' Elco in 1/72nd. Biggish market since they were used by both the USN and the RN!
F
Viseu, Portugal
Joined: November 06, 2011
KitMaker: 51 posts
Model Shipwrights: 50 posts
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 - 10:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
The Vospers generally kept their gun tubs with the twin .5 Vickers and also the Vickers 'GO' guns on the tubes. The other two boats arre probably 77ft. Elcos with gun tubs that would either have Vickers .5s or 50cal. Brownings. This is all detailed in John Lambert's "Allied Coastal Forces Volume II"
F
The outer boat, MTB 313 is a 77' ELCO and has a Vickers MK5 turret on the centerline. The inboard boat (can only make out the first two numbers 26_) is a 70' ELCO and has two twin .50 Brownings in the DeWandre turrets from which the domes have been removed.
Al Ross
Damn! That was well spotted!
But then I'd expect you to spot the details
F
England - North East, United Kingdom
Joined: October 03, 2004
KitMaker: 942 posts
Model Shipwrights: 278 posts
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 - 07:08 PM UTC
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,919 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 01:50 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Do we know the correct colours for MTB 77 and 84?
As pictured, MTB77 appears to be in overall 507C or G45, a light gray color, while MTB 84 displays the Standard Admiralty Light scheme of white, G45 (light gray), and B15 (dark blue gray). These colors are available from WEM.
Here's a color rendering of the latter scheme from C.B. 3098 THE CAMOUFLAGE OF SHIPS AT SEA 1943, a facsimile of which is also available from WEM.
Al Ross
Hi folks,
Thanks again Al. Can annyone recommend suitable alternative acrylic colours. The WEM paints are great but difficult to get a smooth finish when painting by hand.
Thanks
Alan
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Winston Spencer Churchill
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: January 11, 2003
KitMaker: 4,307 posts
Model Shipwrights: 85 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 02:36 AM UTC
Alan
I've been using Vallejo acrylics recently, getting pretty good results using a brush. Would be pretty expensive for something that size though as you have to squirt the paint onto a pallet for use. I'd probably get a car aerosol for the main hull/deck and then brush paint the remainder. Revell paints work well straight onto plastic, but they're a bit thick - more like household emulsion!
Bulldog#3
Grumpy Old Modeller No1
Growing old disgracefully!
New York, United States
Joined: January 21, 2008
KitMaker: 2,531 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,244 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 04:13 AM UTC
First impressions, after all the holiday hubbub is now finally over and done with, I got a chance to sit down with the Vosper and inspect the contents. It is bigger than the MAS, but smaller than the Elco. Going over the instructions, I got the the impression that this is going to be a more involved effort than either the MAS or Elco. There are certainly more photo-etched parts than in the other two kits. Nothing seems too extreme, just the usual planning of what to assemble and paint, or paint and then assemble. There doesn't seem to be any damage incurred during shipping, just one part knocked loose from its sprue. A fine testament to Italeri's packaging. As usual I'll probably start with the hull first, I haven't tested the fit yet, but judging by past experience, there should be no major issues. I will be replacing the plastic prop shafts with brass rod for added strength. I have only two minor complaints with this kit so far. Firstly, the manufacturers decision to make the yards and aerials photo-etched. The flat profile may be all right for the aerials, but certainly not the yardarms. It would be fairly easy to scratch up replacements, but why should it be necessary to do so? My second quibble is with the necessity to cut some of the hatches into two pieces if you want to show them in an open position. Again, not a major problem, but would it have been too difficult to mold them in two pieces rather than one? I just wonder why manufacturers sometimes make the decisions they do. I'm looking forward to getting started, and at the glacial speed I progress, I should have this finished by next Christmas.
Al
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,919 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 04:42 AM UTC
Hi Dave,
Yes, , Vallejo is very good paint but doesn't have the adheasion of Tamiya so if there are appropriate colours in the Tamiya Range I'd rather use those.
Al,
Thanks for the first thoughts, appreciated.
Alan
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Winston Spencer Churchill
New York, United States
Joined: January 21, 2008
KitMaker: 2,531 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,244 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 10:01 AM UTC
For those building this kit, a note, in Step #4 you have to drill several holes through the underside of the deck. They are recessed and flashed over. However, the instructions show three locations, one on the foredeck (forward of the after-most hatch) and two amidships (just aft of the large rectangular opening in the deck) that aren't present on the underside of the deck. I studied the directions carefully and I think those three holes are depicted erroneously. There are three holes shown by the foredeck hatch, one hole is to be for a lifeline stanchion (part #12D) installed in step #8. The other is for the life raft (part #43E) installed in step #7. I couldn't find anything indicating any need for the missing hole. The midships holes are for the two ventilators installed in step #26, only one hole, not two, on each side really needs to be drilled, the others are already provided. Hope this helps.
Al
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,919 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 - 08:32 PM UTC
Hi Al,
Thanks for that - noted.
Alan
'Action this Day'
Winston Spencer Churchill
New York, United States
Joined: January 21, 2008
KitMaker: 2,531 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,244 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - 09:19 AM UTC
Made a little more progress on the build. Added the two cutouts (parts#'s 1F & 2F) to the deck. The fit is very good, it just needed a little dab of putty to fill a tiny gap on each side. Also did some work on the hull, adding the transom which was a nice tight fit, and the four pieces for the rub rail (part#'s 1E, 17E, & 2 parts# 75D). They needed some putty work to blend them into the hull. The same was true for the MAS & the Elco builds. It was really the only fit issue I found with any of the three kits. I've diverged from the instructions (as usual) by gluing the top, and the two sides of the wheelhouse together as a sub-assembly, rather than installing them one at a time in Step 11 as recommended. I felt it would be easier to deal with any seams this way. Again the fit is very good with just a small seam on either side to take care of. So far there have been no major problems and I am very impressed with this kit. There are some sinkholes present on a dozen small mushroom vents (parts# 23D) that will require filling. No big deal.
Al
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: March 01, 2010
KitMaker: 7,078 posts
Model Shipwrights: 6,649 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - 09:03 PM UTC
Progress sounds good Al.
Any chance of some pics.
Si
New York, United States
Joined: January 21, 2008
KitMaker: 2,531 posts
Model Shipwrights: 1,244 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 02:39 AM UTC
Hello Simon, It's coming along nicely, and I'll try and post a few pictures. Another quibble came up. For some unknown reason they molded on the cleats for the halyards to the side of the wheelhouse, then later instruct you to tie off the lines to them. How? Considering shaving them off and replacing them. They molded all sorts of things as separate parts, why not these? I wonder if the kit designers are females? I say this because quite often I don't understand their reason for doing things the way they do.
Al
Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: December 17, 2004
KitMaker: 100 posts
Model Shipwrights: 99 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 09:49 AM UTC
Hi ,
I'm a Dutch builder and new on this forum and i'm building the Vosper and Elco.
I came up on the same "problems" you did and they are strange things as the rest of the detail is quite nice.
A thing i noticed was that they left the voice pipe to the engineroom off.
And there could be some more detail on the twin .5" turret.
I haven't found any good pics on the net (For the turret) is there any site you could recommend?
Here are some pics at my progress.Most of de parts are still not glued for easier painting.
cheers, Tom
chaos alway's win's,because it's better organized (terry pratchett)
Connecticut, United States
Joined: August 03, 2008
KitMaker: 875 posts
Model Shipwrights: 872 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 10:58 AM UTC
Try John Lambert Plans ..........
He has drawings of the turret and torpedo tubes for the Vosper.
Garth
