The old Warship Profile lists hydraulic steering for all the 70' family of boats.

IIRC Whites built a short series of boats of their own, adapted from the original Vosper design, these looked quite different from the boat portrayed in the kit, there is a drawing in Allied Torpedo Boats on page 32.

Whites also built a run of boats that conformed to the original design. There is a nice picture on page 23 of the above book of a White built Vosper, MTB 206, in the same series as your boat.

The main visible differences between these boats and the Italeri kit are the simpler round deflector trim around the main engine exhausts and the rails and fittings you're talking about. They may have appeared on later boats built by other contractors as well as Vospers, I can't be sure of that from the research I've done so far. For the Whites built boats including 204 I'm pretty sure they need to be added. Too late for your model but as you say it might help other people looking for a subject.

Its almost as confusing as identifying Spitfire types, or variations of the Sherman tank.

AlanL
Have you seen these?

http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/newkitnews/adv.html

All the best

Tom

Hi Tom,

Yes, I saw them earlier, see post below. Handy looking crew for both the Vosper and other boats!

Cheers

Al

Hi Alan,
While you where replying on this thread, I found your thread.
Talk about convoluted
Tom

This morning something went wrong uploading a photo.
so here i go again.

It's a photo of one of the dutch vospers visited by prince Bernard 1942.
You can see the box shape just under the life buoy and the square tube running aft.Also the fire extinguishers are in a different place.
I couldn't let it go so i'm changing the deck layout.

Wonder what else pops up before i'm finnished?
It's gives me a better place for the ammo tube to ,that's going where the extinguishers where first.
TDK

Hi Tom R,

Yes lol, lol,

Hi Tom De,

There is alwasy something that appears usually after your done Boat is looking excellent Tom, nice work..

Al

TDK,
I don't wish to make your life any harder, but I've noticed some things on your photo of the Prince's visit (if they were all in the same series of boats it may affect your build)

There's no Oerlikon fitted forward (no biggie, as it's a'42 dated pic).

The step up into the bridge looks pronounceably higher than the kit step (roughly about the same height as the forecastle step)

The distance between the .50 gun tub and the companionway structure looks about the same as the width of the ammo locker.

The forward depth charge mount looks nearer the torpedo tube than on the kit (based on the grey strips visible on your build's deck)

I do hope when(if ) I acquire my boat my modelling skills do it as much justice as your's do.

TomR

Hi Tom,
You'r right about the step to the bridge it does look higher,mayby the deck right behind it is a bitlower then the one on the model.Could be that italeri made a mistake.And yes the DC is closer to the tube then on the model.
Changing that is n't an option,because it will mess with the torpedo being loaded so there is a difference in the total layout. I haven't figured it out jet where it goes wrong.If yoou look at the deck plan of the 234 the DC's are in the right place.??

This photo shows it also quiet clearly.
It also showed the vickers .303 stand so i had to change them as well.
That is the 3dr revision on that part.


I'm not sure i understand what you mean by that.
Here you can see how close the T and DC are already.

Thanks for your input.
TDK (Tom)

Now i have a question.
On this not clear crop of a photo there is a very tall ammo box ,i guess, visible just behind the oerlikon next to the wheelhouse.
Has anybody a better one so that i can build one instead of the"standard" lower ones i've already got.
TDK

I've been looking at pics of ready-ammo lockers on these boats.

I think the problem is that the kit parts look about 1/3rd smaller than they need to be, if you look at Toms picture above notice how the top of the locker is about level with the upper hinge and lock on the turret access door. The kit locker is barely half as tall as the turret, a quick comparison of the lockers dimensions with the dimensions of the .50s magazines seems to bear this out.




Again the exact position of these and other fittings seems to have either varied from one constructor/contractor to another or been altered in service for operational purposes, some fittings seem to have stayed-put fairly reliably, others turn up in different locations depending on which pictures you look at.

HTH.

Actually I'll take that back immediately, there is a picture in Mediterranean MTBs at War of 86 and its obvious from that image that the Italeri locker is about the right size as fitted to at least some of these boats.

So maybe they came in more than one size or possibly the larger locker in Toms photo is Dutch-specific item?

TDK,
I'm wondering if as the war progressed the angle of the tubes was altered so they had to move the DC's aft.
On your 10.07pm post you can see the reloading 'skid' nearest the tube is well aft of the DC putting the DC in the same location as your 07.02pm pic I think it's a perspective issue that makes it look further aft. The chap in the cap appears to be virtually touching the tube and DC (look at the port side tube, you can just see the DC at the edge of the pic) and looking at your model there's definitely less gap between the aft edge of the TT and the deck.

The Lewis gun pedestals are missing in the 07.02pm pic I'm wondering if they were dismountable?

If you look along the starboard side of the wheelhouse in your 12.07 pic is one of youe big ammo bins visible above (forward of) the small ventilator?

Les, I would say that minor(ish) differences between manufacturers are a given. Even major warships of the same class built in different docks had variations and then you have wartime alterations to contend with as well, I can well imagine crews wanting bigger (and hence more ammo) ready use ammo lockers.

TomR

[quote]TDK,


The Lewis gun pedestals are missing in the 07.02pm pic I'm wondering if they were dismountable?

If you look along the starboard side of the wheelhouse in your 12.07 pic is one of youe big ammo bins visible above (forward of) the small ventilator?

IMHO the early dutch boat didn't have the Lewis/vickers .303,only after the upgrade with the oerlikon did they get installed.The ammo bins for the .303 on the boat seem to be in the bridge entrance,i wonder if they where perhaps moveable.

Yes the high ammoboxes are there.Just don't know what part opend to get to the ammo.Could there be a door at the front?Top is highly unlikely,you'll never get to the bottom or if you do you can't get out.
Not closer to an answer.



TDK

TomDK,
I'd agree about the ammo lockers (maybe top and front) the pictures posted show no evidence (to me at least) of the smaller top opening lids.
Try and find some pics of the Matchbox/Revell HMS Snowberry kit (it's in 1/72 scale) I think I've seen similar ammo lockers on a built up model.

TomR

Thats looking great Tom, the camo really sets off the lines of the boat and the forward Oerlikon gives the model a lot more balance, it just looks 'right'.

Excellent work.

Thanks Les ,try to the best i can.



Hi TomR,
This is the only 3/4 front view i can come up with.The Flowerclass didn't show what i was hoping for.Thanks any way for the input.
It looks like it's a stepped locker,lower part with a lid, top part a door in the front????
The one on the otherside of the wheelhouse looks a normal one(low)
TomdeK

[ Quoted text] The ammo bins for the .303 on the boat seem to be in the bridge entrance,i wonder if they where perhaps moveable. TDK

Hello Tom, First let me say, I think your boat looks great. It's really coming along. As to the .303 ammo bins, I don't think they would have been movable. They were probably sited wherever the crew thought it most convenient and/or accessible, and varied from boat to boat. Al

Weathering in progress.

Hi Tom,

Looking excellent, enjoying the build a lot.

Alan

TomdK
Have you considered changing the colour of the depth charges?
If you look at the Prince Bernard pic you posted they look 'hull' grey with with a dark er coloured top to match the rest of the boat.

TomR

Yes i did notice that ,but on photos of the boat on a later date they look black.I liked the idea of some colour other then grey/blue/white.
It could have been just to show off to the prince that they where painted in the cammo of the boat.

Did do some detailing to the tubes.
TDK

Hi Tom,

Nice work.

Al

Hello Tom, looking good, could you tell me where you got those nuts 'n' bolts that you used on the torpedo tubes. Al

Sure Al,
Calibre 35 they aren't cheap but have a lot
http://www.calibre35.cz/35047.htm
I was lucky and got mine in a sale.
You need about 4 sets to do the 2 tubes.But you'll have the other types left for future projects.
TDK.
when i checked the link i saw that they have a different set then i bought.
Looks like you only need 1 of these sets to do the job.