England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: March 01, 2010
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Posted: Friday, August 30, 2013 - 08:46 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Let's not rewrite history without proper documentation, gentlemen... 
In the late 1970s, I had the honor of corresponding with CAPT Peter Dickens, CO of MTB 234 and SO of the 21st MTB Flotilla. In a letter dated 3FEB78, he confirmed the triple rudder arrangement, indicating that originally there were only two. In his book NIGHT ACTION, pp. 167, 229, and a few others, he talks about the triple rudder arrangement and its effect on handling.
Al Ross
Not my intent to re-write any history Al, I've never had the privilege of speaking to Peter Dickens directly and I don't have a copy of his book, my main area of interest is these Vospers is their service in the Med. I've read Popes 'Flag 4' and Reynolds 'Meditteranean MTBs at War'
The reference I do have indicates that the third rudder was an improvement introduced on later batches of boats than 234, thats from John Lamberts book which includes your drawing along with two others by John of other boats which don't show a third rudder.
I've never seen anyone mention a retro-fit in any of my references but they all cover ops in the Med, none of them make any mention of a third rudder being fitted to boats in service.
Perhaps it was a specific mod made to 234, does Dickens refer to the same fit on any other boats under his command?
I'm not trying to re-write anything, I'm trying to find out whats right, as much for my own interest as it is a contribution to the thread.
Joined: October 30, 2005
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Posted: Friday, August 30, 2013 - 09:42 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Right I'm a positive mine of information this morning 
All the above from Allied Coastal Forces, an invaluable reference book. Volume two covering Vosper MTB, and the Elco boats. Volume one covers the Fairmile range, 72' Habour Defence Launch and 110' US Sub Chasers.
Cheers Kev
I'll have to see if I can get hold of these Kev, definately a mine of information. What did the "Lockheed valves" do exactly?
Cheers,
Julian
Joined: October 30, 2005
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Posted: Friday, August 30, 2013 - 09:45 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Kev.
I found that photo too and have tried ny hand at some wood-grain. I tried the same technique I use with WW1 aircraft, but I am a bit out of practice. First up I spray Tamiya XF-59 on all the wooden areas...
Once that is dry I use powdered pigments to get some gain going, but don't want to overdo it. Bit hard to see..
Then I overspray with clear orange..
Then I started to add a dark wash to tone the colour down..
I will keep adding dark washes until I am happy with the colour. Must remember you won't see any of this except through the windows when it is finished. If I am not totally happy with it I can just paint it all grey as the instructions suggest. 
I am sure that if the wood got all scratched up by binoculars etc they would just paint it grey.
Cheers all
Warren
Used the Buff and Clear orange technique on some of the sailing ships I built. Have never seen the pigment trick added to it though. Looks good.
South Australia, Australia
Joined: August 14, 2007
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Posted: Friday, August 30, 2013 - 10:30 PM UTC
You are too kind Julian. Every boat would have had different colour wood due to age, exposure (little in the wheelhouse) and type of stain used. If i was building it again I would use a darker base if I wanted to match the photo.
Cheers for now
Warren
You may be right, I may be crazy.
Joined: October 30, 2005
KitMaker: 3,897 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 30, 2013 - 10:49 PM UTC
The Tamiya Buff with a "Van Dyke brown" oil wash and then clear varnish might work too. Nice to have two different dashboards on one build, (even if you won't see much of the wheelhouse).
Removed by original poster on 08/31/13 - 20:11:44 (GMT).
Joined: October 30, 2005
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Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 12:37 AM UTC
New York, United States
Joined: January 21, 2008
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Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 03:32 AM UTC
Great work everybody, very informative as well as entertaining.
Al
Montevideo, Uruguay
Joined: August 22, 2011
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Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 05:15 AM UTC
" My bigger dread is to look at the history of my life and to ask me what I did with her "
Montevideo, Uruguay
Joined: August 22, 2011
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Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 05:28 AM UTC
" My bigger dread is to look at the history of my life and to ask me what I did with her "
Montevideo, Uruguay
Joined: August 22, 2011
KitMaker: 998 posts
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Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 06:20 AM UTC
" My bigger dread is to look at the history of my life and to ask me what I did with her "
Maine, United States
Joined: May 18, 2006
KitMaker: 317 posts
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Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 06:51 AM UTC
It appears that other boats in the 21st MTB were fitted with the triple rudders, as well. On page 158, he writes: "Dumbflow silencers and triple rudders were approved to be fitted and available; that was great news and it was no wrench to withdraw boats from operations for the work to be done..." On page 167, he writes, "Our triple rudders reduced our turning circles by much more than a third through some freak of hydrodynamics..." He consistently uses plurals; thus the impression that other boats were so fitted.
NIGHT ACTION is a good read and you might be able to acquire a copy through interlibrary loan.
Al Ross
South Australia, Australia
Joined: August 14, 2007
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Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 07:31 AM UTC
Congratulations on a successful maiden voyage Daniel.
You may be right, I may be crazy.
South Australia, Australia
Joined: August 14, 2007
KitMaker: 5,926 posts
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Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 10:36 AM UTC
Some more progress was made overnight and this morning.
First up we have a couple of oars for the raft..
Then I finally finished the raft, Carley float whatever..
Well I thought it was finished until I saw that the grey needs a bit of touching up..
I used Ezy-line for the 'rope' as the one supplied in the kit is too thick to fit through the eyelets, or did I just make the eyelets too small..
Then we have some boat hooks..
Then the thing that has me a bit peed off at the moment. While trying to mask up the wheelhouse so I can paint the grey colour and not paint the wood I went to use the Ganze masking liquid I have here, but it is way too thick to use properly. I have bought two jars of the stuff and both have been the same. Don't buy it whatever you do. Better off using Humbrol Maskol which I am going to try and buy at the LHS later today, Father's Day here in Australia.I have put the wheelhouse on the back burner until I can get some Maskol and do a better masking job.
That's it for now,
Cheers all and Happy Father's Day to all the fathers in Australia,
Warren
You may be right, I may be crazy.
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 04, 2013
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Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 10:48 AM UTC
Congratulations on your launch.
Can you tell us what motors and batteries you used or is it a secret
Cheers Kev
Montevideo, Uruguay
Joined: August 22, 2011
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Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 12:15 PM UTC
Thank you very much Warren!!!!! Only absent Champagne's
bottle!!
Friend KEV ... I clarify first that not nothing on RC and the made thing is of dared!!! For what I could know 3 engines (Brushes) they are Type 550 and batteries ... the first one that it uses was a lipo 7,2 v 5000mh and inflate as a globe!!!!! But now I am proving a lipo 11.1v for 2 external engines and a NiMh 7,2v 4600mah for the head office. The idea is his normal navigation is with the head office and in case of ambush the day pupils use to wet it facing the enemy!!! ... in these tests it is that fire lit the external controls of speed ... already they will see photos!!!
Regards
" My bigger dread is to look at the history of my life and to ask me what I did with her "
Queensland, Australia
Joined: May 20, 2010
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Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 03:15 PM UTC
Well done on the Maiden Voyage Daniel. All of you are doing some lovely work in this Thread.....Cheers mark
If I was your Wife I would Poison your Tea
If I was your Husband, I would drink it.
Joined: October 30, 2005
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Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 04:43 PM UTC
Have you tried This as a source for metal barrels?
http://www.modellbau-schatton.privat.t-online.de/html/preisliste.html Robert has a set of 3 20mm barrels and 1 37mm barrel for about 21 euro's, excellent quality too.
The netal barrel is a must for the Oerlikon, in plastic the recoil spring doesn't show up at all
Congratulations on the succesful maiden voyage of the S-100,
Cheers,
Julian
Joined: October 30, 2005
KitMaker: 3,897 posts
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Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 04:47 PM UTC
Nice work on the float Warren, looks better with real line instead of the moulded on stuff. Have you tried artists masking fluid instead of Maskol? I use it because you get about 4 times as much for the same price as Maskol while it is basically the same liquid.
South Australia, Australia
Joined: August 14, 2007
KitMaker: 5,926 posts
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Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 10:24 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Nice work on the float Warren, looks better with real line instead of the moulded on stuff. Have you tried artists masking fluid instead of Maskol? I use it because you get about 4 times as much for the same price as Maskol while it is basically the same liquid.
Hi Julian
I read about some stuff called Wondermask but it turns out to be either too expensive or they won't ship it here. Then I looked your stuff up and it is not that much cheaper than Maskol over here..
I paid $8.95 for some today so I won't be needing anymore for a while I don't think.
Thanks for the tip though,
Cheers
Warren
You may be right, I may be crazy.
Joined: October 30, 2005
KitMaker: 3,897 posts
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Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 11:29 PM UTC
Joined: October 30, 2005
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Posted: Sunday, September 01, 2013 - 02:59 AM UTC
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 04, 2013
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Posted: Sunday, September 01, 2013 - 05:54 AM UTC
Hi Julian,
I don't want to make waves but!
The position your showing for the oerlikon doesn't tally with the references I have.
Cheers Kev
Joined: October 30, 2005
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Posted: Sunday, September 01, 2013 - 05:57 AM UTC
your are not making waves. the 20mm isn't stuck down yet.
South Australia, Australia
Joined: August 14, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, September 01, 2013 - 06:03 AM UTC
Problem is this kit is supposed to be of an early Vosper, remember it is the early armament scheme. Maybe, like their PT boats, they are going to bring out another version later...
Gun looks very nice by the way.
Regards
Warren
You may be right, I may be crazy.
