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Leyte Gulf Campaign
#027
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Posted: Monday, September 18, 2006 - 05:26 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Anyone who flies planes off boats isn't like the rest of us!



That's why the Navy calls the aviators and everyone else has pilots!

The example I quoted from the Enterprise report was the 1st strike on the Japansese surface fleet at Leyte Gulf. Like you said Tom, with that many flight decks under one command, yiou can launch a squadron here and a squadron there from all the carriers and still have enough aircraft for at least two other strikes on board.

As far as declassified reports, they probably are all declassified, the Navy historical website only goes back to Korea. The CV-6 Association is probably the only one who has gone to the effort of posting them because of the great history of that ship.

Anyway, I've got more Helldivers, Hellcats and Avengers on the way and my premium edition San Diego came in yesterday. I'm ready for Oct. 1!

(me doing the happy gator dance)

Kenny
MartinJQuinn
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Posted: Monday, September 18, 2006 - 07:07 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Ok. Calling all armchair admirals! I've got Dragon's Lexington that I'm going to build as the Hornet. Sailing with her will be Dragon's new premier grade San Diego.
Question...how many of each aircraft would sortie on a strike? I've done some research through NavSource, but the numbers don't sound right for a major raid. 16 F6Fs, 5 TBFs and 7 SB2Cs. I know I've seen deck loads of aircraft warming up. Does have any info that can help? The only action reports I can find are for the Enterprise CV-6.

Thanks....Gator



Gator,

Keep in mind the Dragon Lex is a late-war short hull with all the bells and whistles - twin 20mm, quad .50 calibers, different radar layout, etc. The Hornet was basically unchanged from completion until refit in 1945, after the forward part of the flight deck was crunched in the typhoon.

Best bet to do Hornet would probably be either Dragon or Trumpeter's Essex kit. I say this only because I'm planning on doing CV-12 in 1/350 scale, and I'm using the Trumpter 1/350 Essex as my starting point.

Tracy White would have more information, he is the "King of the Essexes".

I'll take a look in the book I have on the Hornet tonight and see what it says about the airgroup at the time of Leyte Gulf.
#027
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Posted: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 04:16 AM UTC
Hey Martin,

Thanks for the heads up about the Lex. I'll do some side by side comparisions with the Lex kit and Hornet photos before I run out and buy an Essex kit. If there's not that much difference at 1/700 scale, I'll go with the Lex kit. I'm not that particular over the details.

Gator
4thLAV_Bn
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Posted: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:30 AM UTC
Thanks to everyone for the advice and links on the wierd seaplanes I will probably build one or two of each for the model just to have them for display... Having read some references, I don't think that Ise or Hyuga even had planes aboard for the battle, as they were in the decoy force.
#027
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Posted: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 02:36 AM UTC
Hey Clark,

If you go to the Combined Fleet website I posted, you can find a daily log of the ship's movements. When I was doing my 1/700 Mogami with flight deck, I used that website to find out about whether or not the Mogami was carrying aircraft (it wasn't). Give it a looksee.

Gator
#027
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Posted: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 02:45 AM UTC
Here you go Clark.

http://www.combinedfleet.com/Hyuga.html
4thLAV_Bn
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Posted: Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 05:45 AM UTC
Thanks! If I sometims go a while between spurts of postings, it's my wierd med school schedule.

Current status of Hyuga project: Have turret drawings ready for OCT 1, so I can build a plug for them once we get underway. The mold should hold up for 4 turrets, if I'm careful and lucky, it'll hold up for 10 turrets, so I can sock some away for a future project. If not, I'll at least have the plug.
Saturday, I'm going to try to get some good views of the stacks from the pictures in my photobooks and see what kind of fanciness I can do there.

For the guys who do really nice casting: What do you use for making your plugs? I've been using wood, and sanding and filling to make it totally smooth, but I'm wondering if there's a material that's easier.

thathaway3
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Posted: Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 07:04 AM UTC
Kenny, with respect to how carriers conducted flight ops during this period, I did some digging through my old issues of "The Hook" and I hit paydirt on the second one!!!! Back in the Winter 1979 issue, there's an article by RADM James "Jig Dog" Ramage, who was CO of VB 10 on the Enterprise in 1944. There's a great description of how the strikes were conducted. They even had a name, the "Mitscher Shampoo" to describe it. Included in the article is a reprint of the op order for the strikes conducted by C.T.G.58.3, which at that time consisted of Enterprise, with CVG-10, Lexington (CV-16) with CVG-16, Princeton (CV-L23) with CVG-27, and San Jacinto (CVL-30), with CVG-51.

The Enterprise had VF-10 with approx 32 F6F, VB-10 with 21 SBD, and VT-10 with 14 TBM/TBF. Lexington's group had about the same composition, except the squadrons each had a few more planes. BOTH carriers also had a 3-4 plane night fighter detachment, Enterprise with F4Us from VFN-101 and Lexington with F6Fs from VFN-76. The light carriers each had 24 F6Fs and approx 9 TBM.


Ramage describes how the task force would make a fast night approach to the target island, and launch a "massive" fighter sweep to hit the island at dawn. This would be followed by an escorted bomber/torpedo plane attack. Both the task group as well as the area over the target would have a combat air patrol over head.

The strikes were "deckload" strikes, and Ramage states that most of the time 6 of these strikes were scheduled from each deck each day. When you do the math you see that each aircraft probably flew three sorties, and I suspect since they always had more pilots than planes, pilots swapped out some.

Here's what the Op order says:

1. CVs will make a Deckload Launch of 16 VF, 12 VB, and 9VT. (my note: that's nominally half of each squadron at full strength) Second Deckload Launch about 30 minutes later as Second Wave consisting of 16 VF, remaining VB and VT.

2. VT from one CVL will augment FIrst Wave. Arming for VT one half with torpedos, one half with four 500 lb (bombs), for VB one half with 1000lb General Purpose (bombs) and one half with 500 lb (bombs)

3. Later strikes will use (bombs) if targets justify. Lexington Group Commander Coordinate First Wave Attack, Enterprise Second. Priority of targets Carriers, Battleships, Cruisers, Destroyers.

4. General plan of attack. Straffing attack by VF, followed by Dive Bombing, followed by VF straffing. VT make Glide and/or Torpedo attack under the cover and diversion of any of the aforementioned attacks.



Typical "Op Order" language, which when coupled with good training and leadership leads to an effective attack.


Tom

Blade48mrd
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Posted: Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 08:51 AM UTC
To all in "Leyte Gulf" Camapign -

With Baseball season over, I've finally gotten myself some time to do modeling again. The "Leyte Gulf" Campaign is running long enough so maybe I can actually get one of the "Dreadnaughts Campaign" Battleships done that I have left over from the 'donations stash' finished this time. I'm hoping to do the IJN Nagato. If anyone is interested, I still have a couple 1/700th 'Waterline' Battleship kits that I'm willing to donate that IIRC will fit in the "Leyte Gulf" Campaign. I have the following;
Aoshima Yamashiro
Aoshima Fuso
Fujimi Haruna
Fujimi Kongo
Fujimi Musashi
Just let me know in a PM, it will help me trim my 'stash'.

Blade48mrd
#027
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Posted: Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 08:05 PM UTC
Thanks Tom! That's exactly what I needed!

(me doing the happy gator dance)

Gator
#027
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Posted: Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 01:08 AM UTC
T-minus 7 days, 10 hours and 25 minutes til launch. Have any of you guys taken advantage of the free kits from Mike Durr (Blade48mrd)? What about you Gunny? Have you been pouring over the list of ships that were at Leyte Gulf to see what strikes your fancy?

Ships at Leyte Gulf

Thanks to Tom's reseach, I've got my air wing set for the Hornet. I just need four more Hellcats. This is going to be a really fun build.

And here's an idea for someone. How about the American battleline at Surigao Strait in 1/2400? GHQ has some inexpensive kits out there that look pretty good.

Later...Gator
Gunny
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Posted: Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 02:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

What about you Gunny? Have you been pouring over the list of ships that were at Leyte Gulf to see what strikes your fancy?


Later...Gator



Hey, Bro!

Well, today was a very productive day for me at the bench, rained all day, so darn, had to build models!
And yes, I have decided on what I'm gonna build, my friend, and No, she's not a battle ship!
I, ah, well, I just can't pass on the opportunity to build another Flattop, I guess, so it's going to be the Independence for me, with full PE additions, Paypal approved and on the way!

~Gunny
#027
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Posted: Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 07:50 AM UTC
Sounds cool Mark. Which one are you going to do, Independence, Princeton (sunk in this battle), Belleau Wood, Cowpens, Monterey, Langley,Cabot or San Jacinto? I may know someone who make camo mask for those ships.

A light carrier. Can't wait to see that. I would like to do one of those myself.

Later...Gator
Gunny
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Posted: Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 04:32 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Sounds cool Mark. Which one are you going to do, Independence, Princeton (sunk in this battle), Belleau Wood, Cowpens, Monterey, Langley,Cabot or San Jacinto? I may know someone who make camo mask for those ships.

A light carrier. Can't wait to see that. I would like to do one of those myself.

Later...Gator



USS Independence, straight up, mate. . .and I Love light carriers, Bro!


#027
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Posted: Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 05:08 PM UTC
Six days and counting gentlemen! Next Monday we will kick this pig and see how she handles. So, who's wants to lay bets on who glues plastic first?

Later...Gator
Gunny
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Posted: Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 09:43 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Six days and counting gentlemen! Next Monday we will kick this pig and see how she handles. So, who's wants to lay bets on who glues plastic first?

Later...Gator



Well, mate,
Unfortunately, I'll be working on Monday (Unless I catch a bit of Blue Flu! ), so it won't be me. . .I know that Steve is chompin at the bit to get started, so my money might be on him (if I were a betting man, that is! )
~Gunny
4thLAV_Bn
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Posted: Monday, September 25, 2006 - 12:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Six days and counting gentlemen! Next Monday we will kick this pig and see how she handles. So, who's wants to lay bets on who glues plastic first?



I have my turret plug plans drawn up, so I will be carving the plug starting early (early) 01OCT06 and hopefully casting turrets that week. Not sure what I'll do for barrels, as I moved and no longer live 5 minutes from a friend's metal lathe. Most hobby suppliers don't have products in 1:144, at least not turned barrels. Maybe an excuse to go visit my friend and check on his boats...

Interesting part on the turrets will be getting the lip on the top armor right. They look like they had a sheet of extra armor welded to the turret tops, which stops just short of the edges.
Removed by original poster on 09/26/06 - 22:01:48 (GMT).
redneck
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Posted: Monday, September 25, 2006 - 09:12 PM UTC
I don’t think I’ll be the one.

Won’t be ordering my kit for another month or 2.
#027
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Posted: Monday, September 25, 2006 - 09:40 PM UTC
Hey guys. 5 days and counting.

I may have to be away from the computer for the next couple of days. My 2 year old son has come down with a nasty stomach virus. I'm sure everyone here knows what that's like. If the little tike doesn't start drinking something, we'll have to put him in the hospital for IV fluids. I'll check in when I can. This should only be for a couple of days.

Later...Gator
Gunny
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Posted: Monday, September 25, 2006 - 11:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey guys. 5 days and counting.

I may have to be away from the computer for the next couple of days. My 2 year old son has come down with a nasty stomach virus. I'm sure everyone here knows what that's like. If the little tike doesn't start drinking something, we'll have to put him in the hospital for IV fluids. I'll check in when I can. This should only be for a couple of days.

Later...Gator



No problem, Ken. . .
I sure do hope that your boy is OK, Bro, my prayers are with ya!
~Mark
#027
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Posted: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 04:35 AM UTC
Thanks Gunny.
He went to the doctor again today. He's still hydrated and he's on the backside of the bug. He's already feeling better as seen by the amount of toys scattered across my den. We just have to be extra careful with him.

Later...Gator
#027
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Posted: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 11:24 PM UTC
Attention all Leyte commanders....

D minus 4 to Leyte Gulf Campaign. Continue to prepare your ship to get underway for 1 October.

That is all
"Gator"
#027
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Posted: Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 04:54 AM UTC


Ahoy All Hands!
It's D minus 3 until the start of the Leyte Gulf Camapign. You have permission to break the seal on your projects but you can't do anything else! :-)

Is everyone ready? This should be a very interesting campaign. For those still searching for subjects, don't forget that the tin cans and cruisers slugged it out at Surigao Strait.

Later...Lil' Gator
#027
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Posted: Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 07:02 AM UTC
D minus 1 gentlemen. Is everyone ready? Remember, let's have fun!

Later...Gator